Btw atot - I QUIT!

[GodlessAstronomer]

No pussy nicorette or gay e-cig or drugs. Cold turkey like a man's supposed to do it.

I'm a pussy because I used patches and lozenges? LOL, well I'd rather be a pussy who quits successfully than a "real man" like you who's going to relapse, you douche.

Just over 10 weeks for me, not a single smoke.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

congrats

 

[Number1]

I'm a pussy because I used patches and lozenges? LOL, well I'd rather be a pussy who quits successfully than a "real man" like you who's going to relapse, you douche.

Just over 10 weeks for me, not a single smoke.

Good job but don't let your guard down.

I used nicorette gum foe a week when I quit and the day I quit the nicorette was the hardest day in my life. It was a fight by the minutes for a few days after that but I managed to persevere and here we are more then 18 years later and I have not smoked since.

I had extra incentive to help me back then. A white cancerous growth under my tongue that took 3 operations to remove.

not mine but similar



By the way, half the people who develop tongue cancer die of it.

 

[bobdole369]

I'm a pussy because I used patches and lozenges?

I never called patch and lozenge users pussy's. I did call the crutch-devices "pussy" as in "pussy ass nicorette" and gay - as in "gay e-cig or drugs". And I did call myself manly for doing it like god intended men to handle shit - and thats full on veins in teeth blood everywhere, hurt me plenty!

PM me in 10 weeks and we shall see eh? I'm fairly certain crutch-device users are far more likely to relapse than cold-turkey quitters. In fact I might just do some research on that - those statistics quoted by the crutch-device users are made by the marketing companies, because whaddaya know - just like the tobacco companies, they want you to use their product!

And don't call me a douche - that is reserved for idiots, and folks so full of themselves and shit they are impossible to be around, and those folks who prove themselves brainless. I've yet to insult anyone in this thread - been a bit crazy and full of rage, but I never called anyone out, thought I was better than anybody else, or demonstrated that I was a total idiot.

I think you might be referring to the cold turkey vs crutch-device method of quitting when calling me a douche. However I'll let the evidence speak for itself.

 

[Kyle]

I never called patch and lozenge users pussy's. I did call the crutch-devices "pussy" as in "pussy ass nicorette" and gay - as in "gay e-cig or drugs". And I did call myself manly for doing it like god intended men to handle shit - and thats full on veins in teeth blood everywhere, hurt me plenty!

PM me in 10 weeks and we shall see eh? I'm fairly certain crutch-device users are far more likely to relapse than cold-turkey quitters. In fact I might just do some research on that - those statistics quoted by the crutch-device users are made by the marketing companies, because whaddaya know - just like the tobacco companies, they want you to use their product!

And don't call me a douche - that is reserved for idiots, and folks so full of themselves and shit they are impossible to be around, and those folks who prove themselves brainless. I've yet to insult anyone in this thread - been a bit crazy and full of rage, but I never called anyone out, thought I was better than anybody else, or demonstrated that I was a total idiot.

I think you might be referring to the cold turkey vs crutch-device method of quitting when calling me a douche. However I'll let the evidence speak for itself.

Hmm...and what of the organizations for tobacco cessation research, us public health clinical practice guidlines etc that have no incentive for encouraging the use of those products, yet still do? It's not a "crutch"- it's a proven, effective system for quitting.
If you use something like the patch- for the first 4 weeks, your body is getting the nicotine, so you can focus on breaking the habit part- changing routines etc, before worrying about the additional physical w/d symptoms. Then you gradually step down off of the nicotine...how does that *not* sound like and easier/more effective system?

 

[Gothgar]

you'll be back....


oh cigarettes?

You'll be back

 

[KingGheedora]

Quit smoking cigarettes 5 days ago. Last smoke was at 1am on 1 December, putting me at 120 hours quit. Am 30.5 yrs old, parents smoked, first official cigarette smoked at 11 (under a bridge with my middle school friends dave and mitch), smoked steady a pack a day at 14 (once my mom realized my brother was kicking my ass on a daily basis and she felt bad - thanks a lot mom....)

Just stopped. No pussy nicorette or gay e-cig or drugs. Cold turkey like a man's supposed to do it. No relapse yet but I do think about smoking a couple times a day.

Are you saying that your mom allowed you to smoke a pack a day when you were 14 because your bro was beating you up?

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Good job but don't let your guard down.

I used nicorette gum foe a week when I quit and the day I quit the nicorette was the hardest day in my life. It was a fight by the minutes for a few days after that but I managed to persevere and here we are more then 18 years later and I have not smoked since.

Thanks man. I've actually got myself off the patch now and only use a lozenge a couple of times a week, it's going pretty well for me.

I'm fairly certain crutch-device users are far more likely to relapse than cold-turkey quitters. In fact I might just do some research on that

I'll keep using what's working for me, thanks.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

I'm fairly certain crutch-device users are far more likely to relapse than cold-turkey quitters.

I've done some quick looking around. After six months only about 3-5% of cold turkey quitters succeed. On the other hand, 40% of quitters who use patches and lozenges succeed at six months. Do yourself a favour, stop trying to be a "real man" and get the help you'll need. Do you want to really beat this thing?

 

[bobdole369]

I said earlier I'd let the evidence speak for itself. There is so much back and forth on it that I don't have the time to pick it all apart. SO here are a few web links that talk about both sides, and that'll suffice. I'll take back anything I may have implied that cold turkey was a better method that crutch-devices/substances/slow painful withdrawal prolonging in-bed with the gubmint under the premise of "helping" nicotine replacement therapy, until I find something concrete to stand on.

Hmm...and what of the organizations for tobacco cessation research, us public health clinical practice guidlines etc that have no incentive for encouraging the use of those products, yet still do? It's not a "crutch"- it's a proven, effective system for quitting.
If you use something like the patch- for the first 4 weeks, your body is getting the nicotine, so you can focus on breaking the habit part- changing routines etc, before worrying about the additional physical w/d symptoms. Then you gradually step down off of the nicotine...how does that *not* sound like and easier/more effective system?

Who says the US public health institutions (including the government and those funded by the government) have no incentive?

And who says it's a proven, effective system for quitting? My mom does, she quit with a patch. Same with her new husband, and they were up around 4 packs a day. I think its unnecessary. It encourages people who aren't really quite ready ((mentally) - (and those that have been through a 12 step or any addiction recovery program will attest to this) - you MUST be ready to take the plunge, or you will most definitely fail) - to try and fail repeatedly.

Even the American Cancer Society is easy on nicotine addicts "if you fail, try again" - it encourages folks to keep failing! The hell with that! If you smoke once or ingest any nicotine than you deserve no pity. You've failed. You reset the clock yet again. You don't need any handholding, you deserve to be yelled at.

It's not easier and more effective because people don't understand how addiction works. Its exactly the same mechanism in your body and mind as heroin, Cocaine, Opiates, alcohol and some other drugs.

Do you give a coke addict little lines gradually weaning them off of it? How about alcoholics? No because the instant they get just a little bit - the body satisfies its craving. It's craving doesn't go down and it wants more and more and more! This is how addictions work. SO you take your lozenge and you are able to prolong going through the physical withdrawals just a little bit longer. Eventually you are going to have to go through it, so why not just jump into it? Either sink or swim right? This is why I call the patch and lozenges a crutch.

Have you ever tried to quit before? How about do you know anyone else who has tried to quit before? How about failing afterwards - did you notice how quickly you - or that other person returned to the pre-quit level of nicotine? That's why you can't have just one. Having that one enables you to have more and before you know it (usually by the end of the day or within a week) you are back to smoking about a pack a day - or wherever you were. This reaction is why the patch and lozenge method simply aren't that good of an idea.

There is a radio personality here, who has been addicted to the gum for nearly 4 years now. My brother (the same fuckhead who kicked my ass for smoking) - is constantly battling and uses any number of methods to keep from smoking. He's been quitting for 2 years! He still hasn't quit the various methods, and often goes weeks without a smoke.

Your body expects a certain amount of nicotine (or heroin, or alcohol) - and the only thing that makes that go away is to abstain. Once the physical part is done (i.e. the halflife of nicotine expires and its out of your system) - the receptors freak for a while and then you are pretty much done. It's during that 72 hours that you experience physical symptoms, and thats when you feel horrible, have to smoke, get a headache, tremors, shaky, nervous, irritated, etc.

Thanks man. I've actually got myself off the patch now and only use a lozenge a couple of times a week, it's going pretty well for me.

So that method is working for you? Really? You still have lozenges. Why do you use them? How long have you been on the lozenges? When is the quit date for those? I'm not trying to be a hardass, but you claim 10 weeks of quit, but you are still addicted to nicotine aren't you?

 

[bobdole369]

I've done some quick looking around. After six months only about 3-5% of cold turkey quitters succeed. On the other hand, 40% of quitters who use patches and lozenges succeed at six months. Do yourself a favour, stop trying to be a "real man" and get the help you'll need. Do you want to really beat this thing?

This study is flawed:

Data extraction: Two reviewers independently extracted data in a non-blind manner.

Data synthesis: The number of studies was too small and the data too heterogeneous for meta-analysis or other statistical techniques.

Results: There is a paucity of studies reporting relapse curves of self-quitters. The existing eight relapse curves from two studies of self-quitters and five no-treatment control groups indicate most relapse occurs in the first 8 days. These relapse curves were heterogeneous even when the final outcome was made similar. In terms of prolonged abstinence rates, a prior summary of 10 self-quitting studies, two other studies of self-quitters and three no-treatment control groups indicate 3-5% of self-quitters achieve prolonged abstinence for 6-12 month after a given quit attempt.

Conclusions: More reports of relapse curves of self-quitters are needed. Smoking cessation interventions should focus on the first week of abstinence. Interventions that produce abstinence rates of 5-10% may be effective. Cessation studies should report relapse curves.

I hate to win on a technicality but the conclusion is that more reports are needed and that the number of studies was too small.


Here is a blog about the drug makers in bed with various folks - to drum up the numbers and sell product:

http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2006/07/world-conference-on-tobacco-and-health.html

And another:

http://whyquit.com/pr/031207.html

And some more:

http://www.srnt.org/pubs/SRNT V3N3.html



Now we can go back and forth - talking about various methods and disputing each others evidence.

I just want you to realize that the numbers you see may be spoonfed and suspect.

I personally know 2 folks who quit with patch/lozenge, and I personally know 14 that quit cold turkey. Everyone else is either "still quitting", still fighting with the addiction or back to smoking. While I may also know 1000 people that actually tried and failed cold turkey. You can see how numbers can get flawed and clouded. The simple fact is - I know far more cold-turkey quitters than crutch method quitters.

Is it that hard to believe that the big pharmaceutical companies might ***gasp*** be in bed with the government, or even be lobbying the same people who fund the national tobacco cessation program? Why would they do that? TO MAKE MONEY@!!!

Of course that is total crackpottery isn't it?

A fairly good forum on the subject of cold turkey quits that I just googled up:

http://www.ffn.yuku.com/

 

[Adrenaline]

Don't forget the damage you have done to your heart and lungs.

The human body can heal itself. It is an amazing thing.

My dad quit cold turkey about 25 years ago (after mom and him separated). My brother and his wife quit cold turkey about 8-9 years ago. My mom quit cold turkey about 4-5 years ago maybe. I tried a cigarette and did not like it at all, so I never had the habit.

Everyone quit cold turkey and hasn't relapsed.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

This study is flawed:

I take it you don't understand how science works? Yup. The study I linked is a meta-analysis (or an attempt at one, where they concluded not enough data exists for a meta analysis). The data they used in that meta-analysis all pointed in one direction - that self-quitters only succeed around 3-5% of the time after six months. None of the studies looked at in the meta-analysis disputed this fact.

There was simply not enough data in the studies to give a reliable relapse curve, which was the primary objective of the study. Unfortunately I'm on summer break so I don't have access to the full text to find the actual studies in the analysis.

 

[bobdole369]

In any event - Good for everyone who is quitting - regardless of the method - lets hope ye accomplish quitting for good!!!!!! I know I have. Its still a day to day and hour by hour thing, but it really does help to have someone on your side doing the same thing.

 

[Barfo]

reps

 

[Zebo]

Oh hell I thought this was another bon voyage AT thread. I was going to say you'll be back.

Good for you regardless.

 

[Possessed Freak]

At 30 years old, I have refused to try cigarettes. My dad and mom were addicted to them for half their life. My sister got hooked smoking thanks to a relationship with a smoker. The relationship ended, her addiction has not...

I do smoke a pipe about once a month or so.

 

[squirrel dog]

Good deal I quit on Mother's Day in 1984 , I still can taste a cig at times.So keep on keepin on , it isn't easy to quit , but I am proof you can . I quit cold turkey .

 

[Kyle]

Have you ever tried to quit before? How about do you know anyone else who has tried to quit before? How about failing afterwards - did you notice how quickly you - or that other person returned to the pre-quit level of nicotine? That's why you can't have just one. Having that one enables you to have more and before you know it (usually by the end of the day or within a week) you are back to smoking about a pack a day - or wherever you were. This reaction is why the patch and lozenge method simply aren't that good of an idea.

Yes, I have quit (over 6 years now).
And I've helped over 6,500 other people to quit.

The actual physical addiction to nicotine is only one small part of quitting- the chance of becoming addicted to the gum/lozenge is SOOO much less than a cig- there's no immediate gratification- it takes 5-15 mins or so before the nicotine even is in your system, compared to just a matter of seconds with a cig...
There's so many flaws with your argument- don't have time to get in to it all at the moment, but I'll return to the thread later...but I do agree- it does take a huge amount of motivation and willpower- nothing will replace that.


But regarding
"Even the American Cancer Society is easy on nicotine addicts "if you fail, try again" - it encourages folks to keep failing! "

wow...it does take 4-5 times or so on average- if you make someone feel like shit after their first relapse, they'll lose all confidence and never try again- I hear it all the time...by letting them know that it's normal, they get the motivation to try again- which is the most important thing.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

True failure is attempting to quit, failing and then never trying again. Encouraging those who have fallen off the wagon to get back on is not encouraging failure, it's promoting success. bobdole369 you have a terrible attitude towards quitting.

 

[bobdole369]

I just don't think so. But hey thats why we are all different right? Snowflakes?

wow...it does take 4-5 times or so on average

Then you haven't quit right? I would think there is something wrong if I had to try to start my car 4-5 times. It shouldn't be like that. I think the difference with me is that I understand addiction. I've gone through alanon and even a few AA meetings myself, Even had a friend addicted to heroin kill himself trying to quit, so I'm not like your average slob.

But like everyone is saying to me - we'll see in a few weeks if it sticks. I know it will, and I'll be able to chalk up on my wall o' achievements "quit smoking cold turkey the first time I tried".

I just don't think there is any excuse for relapsing. Sure you can try again, but don't give someone comfort who has failed - lest he learn that its OK to fail. Don't kick him when he's down either, he'll get back up himself - or he's not ready. It's NOT OK to relapse. That might be the military in me talking though.

 

[NesuD]

Quit smoking cigarettes 5 days ago. Last smoke was at 1am on 1 December, putting me at 120 hours quit. Am 30.5 yrs old, parents smoked, first official cigarette smoked at 11 (under a bridge with my middle school friends dave and mitch), smoked steady a pack a day at 14 (once my mom realized my brother was kicking my ass on a daily basis and she felt bad - thanks a lot mom....)

Just stopped. No pussy nicorette or gay e-cig or drugs. Cold turkey like a man's supposed to do it. No relapse yet but I do think about smoking a couple times a day.

I'm Happy for ya check back in another week and we will see if your still a real man. Look you quit any way that works for you. your not a pussy if you use nicorette and there is nothing gay about using a drug like chantix. You do what you have to do to get it done. I've been quit for 6 months this week. I used Chantix to do it.

 

[SparkyJJO]

For some people, cold turkey works (did for my old coworker at my previous job). For others, they need a little "crutch" so to speak to ease them off. Whichever works for you, do it. But beating each other over the head about methods is silly.

 

[Kyle]

I just don't think so. But hey thats why we are all different right? Snowflakes?



Then you haven't quit right? I would think there is something wrong if I had to try to start my car 4-5 times. It shouldn't be like that. I think the difference with me is that I understand addiction. I've gone through alanon and even a few AA meetings myself, Even had a friend addicted to heroin kill himself trying to quit, so I'm not like your average slob.

Again, I have quit, and am also very familiar with addiction- both personally and through extensive training/education. Also you need to realize that your addiction is NOT the same as other peoples addictions. It is a very unique experience, and it really does effect everyone differently- for some people, cigs are litteraly like their best friend, and they can not even imagine living life with out them. For others, it's just something that gives them pleasure or helps them relax. Many people hate everything about them, but can't put them down. You can not take your experience and generalize it to others.

When you say "It shouldn't be like that"- that doesnt change the fact that it IS like that. And a big reason is that every one is different- you have to figure out what works for you. If someone decided to quit and has never tried it before- they'll have no idea what is going to help them get through the cravings. Maybe they heard from a friend that using suckers works- so they try it and find out that, for them, it has no effect. They slip up.
They have not failed- they just learned that suckers are not a useful tool for them.
It's about gaining experience. I did not quit my first attempt- yet hear I am, 6+ years w/ out a cig. Same with *most* others who have quit- it usually doesnt go how we plan on the first attempt. More power to you if you are successfull on the first try- the goal should *always* be to quit without any slips or relapses, but if you do slip up, realize it's not the end of the world, and focus on the positives you learned from the attempt and move forward.

 

[Kyle]

For some people, cold turkey works (did for my old coworker at my previous job). For others, they need a little "crutch" so to speak to ease them off. Whichever works for you, do it. But beating each other over the head about methods is silly.

Couldn't agree more- it's all about figuring out what works for you personally.