Broadwell in Tablets... A big deal or not?

[Shivansps]

Broadwell on tablets its like the Haswell-E to desktops, it is important, but its premium, CT on tablet should be where the mainstream eyes are.

 

[Roland00Address]

Would you really consider a 45 Watt i7 in a laptop? That makes me think of this

Most gaming laptops with 90 watt bricks or higher have an i7 4700hq or higher and all those laptops have a 37 or 47 watt tdp chip. If you have a gtx 850m which has a 45 watt tsp or the 860m which has a 75 watt tsp you might as well get the i7 quad core.

Remember that the chip will only use all this power when you run full blast, it is the dynamic range that is important rev up for sub second tasks and then go to a lower c state and energy profile. And when you are gaming you are going to be plugged in anyway.

 

[Enigmoid]

Most gaming laptops with 90 watt bricks or higher have an i7 4700hq or higher and all those laptops have a 37 or 47 watt tdp chip. If you have a gtx 850m which has a 45 watt tsp or the 860m which has a 75 watt tsp you might as well get the i7 quad core.

Remember that the chip will only use all this power when you run full blast, it is the dynamic range that is important rev up for sub second tasks and then go to a lower c state and energy profile. And when you are gaming you are going to be plugged in anyway.

This is true. Though the 860m is not a 75W part (desktop 750TI is 60W). Generally according to notebookcheck and 45W quad + 860m will draw around ~90W under 3dmark and ~140W under prime+ furmark.

These 15.6" notebooks are generally just over an inch thick.

 

[Eug]

Yeah, I know, but my point is would you actually consider one if you're not a gamer or needed it for some other niche purpose?

Those things are monsters, and have lousy battery life. They are more like mobile desktops these days, in relation to the current generation ultrabooks, and ultrabooks are where the technology is headed... except for gaming and niche usage.

This is in contrast to a decade ago, when such big monsters were the norm. And part of the reason is that people simply didn't know any better. Back then I would tell people NOT to get anything like that unless they were a gamer, but they would anyway because of benchmarketing and screen size specs, only to realize after owning them for a few months they absolutely despised carrying those mobile desktops around. These days many buyers are more savvy, as the laptop market has matured, which means more and more people are going for light machines with long battery life.

To put it another way: Even AT geeks buy ultrabooks these days.

 

[TrulyUncouth]

I'd say about 98% of our workplace (10000 people) is on desktops. 2% laptops. 0 thin client.

I work at a ~500 person company and we are 60desk-40lap I'd say with no tablets and phones provided

 

[biostud]

I dont get the Metro hate - it borders on irrational.

Metro is fine for touch panels. For mouse+keyboard it's slower than normal Windows UI in every regard.

 

[NTMBK]

I like the idea of a fanless Core M detachable, but they really do need to get the keyboard right. Look no further than the Surface Pro line of convertibles to see how *not* to do it

Haha, definitely! I have a Venue 11 Pro, which has a proper laptop style keyboard which contains a second battery to boost runtime. Much better than the flappy Surface Pro thing in my opinion.

 

[NTMBK]

Maybe for you, but in the enterprise the writing is on the wall. The desktop PC has essentially ceased to exist. Laptops or tablets for mobile workers, thin clients for everyone else. You don't think "phablets" are post PC?

Laptops are still PCs.

Thin client is interesting, not seen much of that- in my workplace it's either get a workstation if you need compute power, or get a laptop if you're an Office jockey. I'd happily admit that we're not a typical workplace though.

 

[Roland00Address]

This is true. Though the 860m is not a 75W part (desktop 750TI is 60W). Generally according to notebookcheck and 45W quad + 860m will draw around ~90W under 3dmark and ~140W under prime+ furmark.

These 15.6" notebooks are generally just over an inch thick.

In real world scenarios you are correct the 860m should never hit 75w and thus the computer need to dissipate that amount of heat. But you forgot two things. On desktop parts they do not count the ram as part of the tdp for nvidia products but to my understanding on laptops they do (this will only be a few watts though).

The second thing is even if the real tdp is less Nvidia has to create "baskets" where there product can be easily placed in a whitebox laptop. The oems will not redesign an alienware case or a lenovo y50 case for it was 65, 70, or 75 watts they will just round up and go with the lowest one that meets the requirements.

Nvidia has the sub 50watt design with the gtx 850m which is the same chip but with lower clocks, but for the higher chip since oems have their cases design for 75 instead of 60 nvidia states the tdp is 75 watts even if really isn't so the oems are confident it can sustain those boosts states and not throttle if they use a 75 watt solution.

Yeah, I know, but my point is would you actually consider one if you're not a gamer or needed it for some other niche purpose?

Those things are monsters, and have lousy battery life. They are more like mobile desktops these days, in relation to the current generation ultrabooks, and ultrabooks are where the technology is headed... except for gaming and niche usage.

I said graphics and I gave a going up scale from ultrabooks to desktop replacements that weigh 6 to 8 lbs. One thing I think of when I hear the word graphics with laptops is either gamers, but also graphic renders and video conversion.

----

Personally I hate gaming laptops, for me it is a ultrabook or tablet on the go and my 27" 1440p monitor with a desktop at home. That said these type of laptops do have a point. If I need to travel or do work on the goal that need this type of horsepower (for example I am an engineer). I can get roughly 73 to 80% of the desktop cpu i7 performance in a laptop now, and these laptops can be cheap. On gpu performance desktops though will blow laptops out of the water but even then you can still get nice gpu to do most things. the gtx860m maxwell part is a wonderful piece of silicon. In theory I can do the same type of works I normally do at home with a good enough laptop connected to my 27" monitor and my screen just turn off.

Personally I want to see this happen.

• Most people: Core M from Pentium to 5Y series. Now the Pentium Haswell U weree 1.1 ghz with the 10w chip and 1.7 ghz with the 15w chip so I hope they release something in the 1.5 ghz for the 4.5w chip eventually but intel may decide atom is close enough and they want to upscale you. Said mainstream computers come from 10" to 15" normal laptops possibly even a 17." Focusing on cost, weight, battery life, good screen, some form of ssd. Sure a 35w cpu would be faster but for these people's task the cpu is fast enough, it is the form factor, the battery life, the screen, the storage speed that need the real improvement and going with a lower tdp cpu allows you to make it fanless, thin, gives you more space for battery, etc.
• Cheap Gamers and people who still want something small but more power could easily happen with a 28w Dual Core with the onpackage edRAM. Last time intel only had the edram on their 47w+ plus models but there is no reason they can not put it on a dual core 28w model. 28w models allow you to make something macbook retina size without going extremely expensive. In this form factor you get limited gains with going nvidia or amd gpu vs just using the intel edRAM solution if intel made it available (you would get better drivers with nvidia). This is the form factor that would benefit the most from edRAM (that and servers but that is a different matter).
• Professionals who need hefty computing power and Heavy Gamers will go for the 45 watt cpu models like normal, and dedicated graphics. These skus honestly do not need the edRAM sure it would be nice but if intel wants to save some money they could.

 

[bullzz]

the best thing that happened to mid/high range laptops in the last 3 yrs is SSDs. with broadwell having decent performance at a low TDP, we can expect a desktop performance from 4 yrs ago in a tablet. this should really make windows tablets more usable and mainstream

 

[Nothingness]

Maybe for you, but in the enterprise the writing is on the wall. The desktop PC has essentially ceased to exist. Laptops or tablets for mobile workers, thin clients for everyone else. You don't think "phablets" are post PC?

That's wrong where I work. Even though we have very large clusters, most engineers use desktops.

 

[Roland00Address]

I didn't say Intel is in trouble.

The concern with Intel is where do they fit in the post PC world?

Intel will still have servers until someone actually competes with them there. Sure normal computers and tablets are cheaper and thus lower asps but the more devices in the world (not just the us) the more servers you need and even in the us we become server happy for we like big data and connected data.

Now Intel could really some day find competition in the server space but that is a harder market to get into.

 

[Burpo]

This press release from abroad explains a lot about where Intel is headed. A lot of impressive numbers thrown out there. I doubt Intel was just pulling them out of their arse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upme7Ax9M_Q

After watching the 1st 30 minutes of this (core-m at 20 minutes), I'm pretty sure Intel will survive..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNaukc1J_aY

 

[Hulk]

One thing I think Broadwell can definitely do is fulfill the promise Intel made on ultrabooks years ago in that we can finally have powerful, thin and light laptops with great battery life. I would hope to see the next node shrink bring quad core to this category.

If, and it's a big if, Intel can wean a significant portion of Android tablet users to Windows tablets then the transitions to Windows phones, assuming the hardware is ready, shouldn't be as big a challenge.

 

[Eug]

One thing I think Broadwell can definitely do is fulfill the promise Intel made on ultrabooks years ago in that we can finally have powerful, thin and light laptops with great battery life. I would hope to see the next node shrink bring quad core to this category.

If, and it's a big if, Intel can wean a significant portion of Android tablet users to Windows tablets then the transitions to Windows phones, assuming the hardware is ready, shouldn't be as big a challenge.

Windows isn't a tablet OS IMO. It's a desktop/laptop OS with a tablet mode. Not really the same thing.

As I said in the other thread, Core M is appropriate for OS X ultrabooks and Windows 2in1 machines, but doesn't really make that much sense at this time for the core Android and iOS markets. If anything from Intel, it'd be Atom.

 

[Hulk]

Windows isn't a tablet OS IMO. It's a desktop/laptop OS with a tablet mode. Not really the same thing.

As I said in the other thread, Core M is appropriate for OS X ultrabooks and Windows 2in1 machines, but doesn't really make that much sense at this time for the core Android and iOS markets. If anything from Intel, it'd be Atom.

I thought Windows 8 was decent for tablets. No?

 

[Eug]

I thought Windows 8 was decent for tablets. No?

Sure, if you like paying more for CPU speed and storage space just to make it usable.

Windows 8 tablets do do way more in terms of productivity than most tablets, but that's not the point. People are not generally buying tablets as full-fledged productivity tools. Windows enables this, but most people don't need it.

Android and iOS are much, much leaner OSes and don't need the storage and CPU oomph that Windows 8 tablets must have just to be usable. Android and iOS tablets are also easier to manage for n00bs.

 

[Phynaz]

I'd say about 98% of our workplace (10000 people) is on desktops. 2% laptops. 0 thin client.

Wow, and I thought we were in the stone age. Seriously, you have 10K people chained to their desk?

What industry is this?

 

[Eug]

Wow, and I thought we were in the stone age. Seriously, you have 10K people chained to their desk?

No, not everyone is chained to their desks. Just because they're desktops doesn't mean you're chained to them. However, it does mean that most machines have local copies of the software used.

Anyhow, I'm not an IT guy, but when I read about this stuff, nowhere have I seen balanced articles that state thin client deployments are always a slam dunk.

 

[Hulk]

I would love a Windows tablet that could serve as my laptop as well. I have had my Dell Core2Duo laptop since 2006. My 5 year old daughter "took control" of my Android tablet so not having to buy a new tablet and laptop would be great. As someone else noted here a 12" tablet with a good detachable keyboard would be perfect. The money that would have gone into the Android tablet could be saved or put into the Broadwell based Windows tablet. That's the plan anyway, let's see if the hardware measures up when we finally get our hands on it.

 

[Eug]

^^^ In other words, you want a two-in-one. That's the segment above mainstream tablets, and Core M is suited for this. You wouldn't buy one for your daughter though probably, due to cost. The extra 2-in-1 functionality would simply be wasted, for $300 more.

 

[Puppies04]

The concern with Intel is where do they fit in the post PC world?

I have seen no proof that a "post PC world" is anywhere close. Yes the market readjusted when tablets came on to the scene but no tablet comes anywhere close to being as productive as a laptop and I don't see that chaning any time soon.

 

[TrulyUncouth]

No, not everyone is chained to their desks. Just because they're desktops doesn't mean you're chained to them. However, it does mean that most machines have local copies of the software used.

Anyhow, I'm not an IT guy, but when I read about this stuff, nowhere have I seen balanced articles that state thin client deployments are always a slam dunk.

I posted above about 60% of my company being desktop and 40% laptop. A few years ago we attempted to use thin clients but they were universally reviled by people in the company for being different and not running flash or videos at all or well. At one point we had more than 10% thin clients but now we are well under 1% and dropping.

Haha, definitely! I have a Venue 11 Pro, which has a proper laptop style keyboard which contains a second battery to boost runtime. Much better than the flappy Surface Pro thing in my opinion.

I sadly returned my DVP 11 with the core 4300Y last week because of the continued freeze ups, delay on resume, and poor build quality. Not to derail the thread but wanted to ask if you haven't run into issues with occasional freezes of 10+ seconds and sometimes requiring hard reset. I really loved that tablet and the keyboard dock even more(Why can't MS make a damn dock like this for surface?!?!) but the issues were just too much and I couldn't see keeping it for that kind of money.

Too bad Dell couldn't get the thing lined out, the peformance was insane for a tablet.

 

[Techhog]

I didn't say Intel is in trouble.

The concern with Intel is where do they fit in the post PC world?

Why does how Intel fits into a self-fulfilling marketing prophecy matter?

 

[frozentundra123456]

Wow, and I thought we were in the stone age. Seriously, you have 10K people chained to their desk?

What industry is this?

Not everyone needs mobility, and if they don't, a desktop still gives the best performance and usability.
We have several old core 2 duo desktops in our lab, and one newer IVB laptop. I use the laptop to work from home, and to take to other locations on campus, but when I am in the lab, I still prefer to use the old desktops compared to the laptop, mainly because I don't like typing on the laptop.