Broadwell in Tablets... A big deal or not?

[Hulk]

It seems Intel's "top down" drive/strategy may finally hit pay dirt with the ability to have x86 near desktop power into fanless tablets. Will it revolutionize the tablet industry or is it too late?

On one hand having full blown Windows in a tablet could be fantastic. No separate application if you want to watch Netflix, the ability to use a bluetooth keyboard and mouse to work effectively in Office, or even some light video editing in professional video editing applications, just to name a few examples. Perhaps this new paradigm will finally converge the laptop and tablet and, for some people, only the tablet will be needed?

On the other hand so many people have grown accustomed to Android, the way it just "works" and the apps associated with it. If things get messed up just reset and reload apps. And with the cost of Core M it appears as though ARM will be able to fight back on pricing. Finally, for what they are intended to do tablets are pretty snappy these days so performance isn't the issue it was just a year or two ago.

What do you think? Are we looking at a revolution or a small niche for Intel/MS with tablets?

Finally, does this mean the next shrink to 10nm we will see this class of power in phones?

 

[Phynaz]

Revolutionize the tablet industry? No.

Keep Intel alive? Maybe.

 

[liahos1]

It seems Intel's "top down" drive/strategy may finally hit pay dirt with the ability to have x86 near desktop power into fanless tablets. Will it revolutionize the tablet industry or is it too late?

On one hand having full blown Windows in a tablet could be fantastic. No separate application if you want to watch Netflix, the ability to use a bluetooth keyboard and mouse to work effectively in Office, or even some light video editing in professional video editing applications, just to name a few examples. Perhaps this new paradigm will finally converge the laptop and tablet and, for some people, only the tablet will be needed?

On the other hand so many people have grown accustomed to Android, the way it just "works" and the apps associated with it. If things get messed up just reset and reload apps. And with the cost of Core M it appears as though ARM will be able to fight back on pricing. Finally, for what they are intended to do tablets are pretty snappy these days so performance isn't the issue it was just a year or two ago.

What do you think? Are we looking at a revolution or a small niche for Intel/MS with tablets?

Finally, does this mean the next shrink to 10nm we will see this class of power in phones?

in my opinion if MS had the apps that android had it would be game over. I dont get the Metro hate - it borders on irrational. Once I got use to the OS I've never looked backed to any other non phone os. iOS is great for the phone but ridiculously archaic on a tablet. Kindle OS is something that might make sense to my mom. Android is good but was janky when I was using it in 2012- that may have changed. Good app selection but nothing beats having one device for work and entertainment.

I really really like the surface pro 3 - it has obviated the need for me to buy a separate tablet. the only issues have been when i'm in a hot room or environment the fan turns on and the device gets hot. Its annoying. But there was a period of time I had to be out of my apt (got flooded) and I was living in a hotel for 3 weeks - using that device as my primary work-at-home and entertainment device was amazing.

Once console os comes out I'm never looking back.

with regard to pricing. I think Cherry trail should be an effective competitor to all the little arm soc's coming out for android devices. Personally the value proposition Core m presents is unreal.

half the price of a surface pro 3 i5 tablet, similar performance but lighter, thinner and fanless. its absurd. why would i go out and buy a separate tablet device? I am upgrading to a 4'7 iphone so I have my pure mobility needs covered.

 

[Homeles]

Keep Intel alive? Maybe.

Intel isn't in trouble... at all. The only reasonable concern to have with Intel is whether or not they will continue to grow.

 

[Hulk]

in my opinion if MS had the app's that android had it would be game over.

That is a good point regarding the apps. I'm wondering what I would lose if my tablet were Windows instead of Android. I know what I'd gain, all my Windows apps.

How many Android apps are there that you can't have or replicate in Windows?

Aren't many of them as simple as going to a website? Like Netflix, Pandora, or Gas Buddy? At first glance it seems simpler and easier to just set bookmarks for these "apps" rather than have to load each one in Android.
Then again, I'm not a phone power user by any means.

 

[liahos1]

That is a good point regarding the apps. I'm wondering what I would lose if my tablet were Windows instead of Android. I know what I'd gain, all my Windows apps.

How many Android apps are there that you can't have or replicate in Windows?

Aren't many of them as simple as going to a website? Like Netflix, Pandora, or Gas Buddy? At first glance it seems simpler and easier to just set bookmarks for these "apps" rather than have to load each one in Android.
Then again, I'm not a phone power user by any means.

from my experience the only issue is that going to specific websites vs having an app is that while the sites may be more robust in terms of usability than the apps, they dont lend themselves well to touch interfaces. I use the Netflix app on my surface and rarely go to the site. It would be nice to have a yelp app for instance because using the site with touch is difficult. I do find the value of having these apps is more valuable when I'm on the go. E.g. walking around new york, popping open yelp to find a local business.

 

[frozentundra123456]

It may "revolutionize" the laptop/desktop/convertible devices market, but not the tablet market. Intel was too late to the market and android/IoS is too firmly entrenched in the cheap tablet and all phones market. So I see most of the gains from Broadwell either coming from desktop/laptop sales or from new purchases. Personally, I am sad to see this, because I am a windows diehard and hate Android. But I work at a university and often bus from one campus to another. Even for a short bus ride, I bet at least 1/3 of the students have their phone out, checking e-mail, listening to music, or on social media. Why would they need a 500 to 1000 dollar tablet when they can do this on their phone, for which the real cost is cleverly hidden into the 2 year contract? And actually, I bet even when at home with larger, more powerful devices available, they still spend most of their time on their phones.

So I actually see phones eating into the tablet market from the bottom end, and rather stagnant sales in tablets at some point. If Intel really wants to make a major move into the mobile market they HAVE to get into phones, and unfortunately they have done a lousy job of that so far.

 

[Eug]

As I've said in other threads, I'm waiting for a 12-ish inch fanless ultra-ultrabook, but with enough oomph to do real world business application type work, and have a "retina" screen as well. If it needs to boot up, then fine.

It seems like 1.1 GHz Core M 5Y70 fits the bill.

For a tablet, I just wanna surf and check email, and maybe watch a few videos, but I want instant-on, etc. Keyboard optional.

Yeah, these markets will converge, but we're not quite there yet.

 

[sm625]

What intel really needs is to do is get Core-M SoC down to a size wher eit can fit into a phablet type device. Somethign with a 6" screen. And then the real tricky part is to integrate atom into Core-M and make it dual purpose / dual-boot so that the same device can serve as an android phone but also run windows when needed. They can do this at 14nm easily, since many 7" tablets easily burn 5 watts while gaming. So we know it can be done. I'm not too concerned with thickness. If it has to be 9mm thick then so be it. But the important thing is that they get it done, get the products into the marketplace. Then within a few years everyone will be buying one device to use as their phone AND their primary desktop.

 

[witeken]

Why integrate Atom in Core? That isn't necessary.

I think Core is already good enough for 7-8", but we probably won't see those until Skylake-Y (probably not, though).

 

[Phynaz]

Intel isn't in trouble... at all. The only reasonable concern to have with Intel is whether or not they will continue to grow.

I didn't say Intel is in trouble.

The concern with Intel is where do they fit in the post PC world?

 

[crashtech]

Seems the problem most people have is with size and weight. No one wants to lug around something big enough to do serious work on, but then again it's sometimes really nice to have a full size computing experience with all that screen real estate. A 12" Windows tablet that could be rolled up and put in a pocket, now that would revolutionize things. We might be a few years away from that...

 

[witeken]

I didn't say Intel is in trouble.

The concern with Intel is where do they fit in the post PC world?

Do you have any idea why Intel's stock had those 2 sudden climbs?

In any case, Intel is fixing this post-PC problem with Atom and Quark. Intel's leading edge semiconductor fabs will also be available for other companies. There's no doubt that if something computes, it will do it best with Intel technology.

 

[NTMBK]

Ugh, "Post PC world" is just so much hype. Tablet growth has already flatlined- they are being eaten from below by phablets, and from above by laptops and 2-in-1s. The PC is sticking around just fine.

Looking forward to seeing what Broadwell tablets can do- my Haswell-Y tablet is pretty awesome, but would be even better without the fan and with less weight.

 

[Hulk]

Thus far is seems as though Intel's process and architecture lead (in the x86) space has allowed them to maintain a commanding lead over AMD in the desktop and mobile PC market. This this latest node shrink seems to be a BIG one. THE one that allows them to overlap (and compete) with the large ARM devices, namely tablets.

I think this is the first time the zen diagrams of Intel and ARM have seriously overlapped in the consumer space and I think sparks will fly...

The big IF in my mind is if Intel can hold perhaps only a $200 price premium over a similar ARM tablet. If a top notch ARM tablet is $500 I'd pay an extra $200 for Broadwell and Windows. If it's like double the price then I'm out.

 

[crashtech]

Kinda thinking that it would have to be closer to parity to attract attention. Less than $100 more plus a smart marketing campaign, something like spots showing an Intel workstation morphing into the shiny new x86 tablet.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Ugh, "Post PC world" is just so much hype. Tablet growth has already flatlined- they are being eaten from below by phablets, and from above by laptops and 2-in-1s. The PC is sticking around just fine.

Looking forward to seeing what Broadwell tablets can do- my Haswell-Y tablet is pretty awesome, but would be even better without the fan and with less weight.

I like the idea of a fanless Core M detachable, but they really do need to get the keyboard right. Look no further than the Surface Pro line of convertibles to see how *not* to do it

 

[Roland00Address]

The OEMs have been moving to the U series processors for their mainstream chip for the last 2 years (and it accelerated a lot with haswell). Now a days for most laptops if you want a tdp over 15 watts you are almost always going for a i7 quad core or a business class machine.

Now the OEMS can get effectively the same performance with the Y series chips so expect to see the OEMS to move to these chips even when it makes no sense to do so. Thus we are going to see thinner laptops, and more convertibles.

The reason why this may not happen is if intel charges a premium for the Core M over the traditional core i3, i5, i7. That and a limited supply provided by intel.

I just hope that if this does happen that the OEMs will start moving to SSD only storage for these thin machines. SSDs are now cheap enough. You can get 120/128 gb ssds from quality SSD makers for $60 retail so the OEMS can get this for even cheaper due to their bulk purchasing and not having a retail middle man.

----

Yes there are some very big downsides for moving to a 5 watt processor for a mainstream laptop. You could get much better graphic performance with the 15w, 28, or 35 watt version. That said the the 35 watt processors at most would be 100% faster in cpu tasks and most likely will probably be in the 30 to 50% faster range due to Intel making sure those chips stay sub 4 ghz with turbo.

Now the 45 watt i7 quad cores will blow these little core ms out of the water.

I also hope we see broadwell with embedded graphic memory become mainstream but this won't happen for the next 6 months and I think the OEMs are going to be too cheap and shortsighted to do this.

 

[Eug]

Would you really consider a 45 Watt i7 in a laptop? That makes me think of this:

I'd get a 5 Watt laptop in a heartbeat. These days top end GPU power is frankly mostly either gaming or else just niche.

 

[crashtech]

I just parted out an Alienware with an i7-920XM. 55W CPU.

 

[Eug]

I just parted out an Alienware with an i7-920XM. 55W CPU.

Yep, as mentioned, gaming or niche machine. In this case, likely gaming. Which GPU in that monster?

---

The thing is in 2014, even Retina with the latest eye candy can function fine on integrated GPU on a laptop (since they don't have 30" screens).

 

[crashtech]

Yep, as mentioned, gaming or niche machine. In this case, likely gaming. Which GPU in that monster?

---

The thing is in 2014, even Retina with the latest eye candy can function fine on integrated GPU on a laptop (since they don't have 30" screens).

Twin HD 4870s in Crossfire.

 

[Phynaz]

Ugh, "Post PC world" is just so much hype. Tablet growth has already flatlined- they are being eaten from below by phablets, and from above by laptops and 2-in-1s. The PC is sticking around just fine.

Looking forward to seeing what Broadwell tablets can do- my Haswell-Y tablet is pretty awesome, but would be even better without the fan and with less weight.

Maybe for you, but in the enterprise the writing is on the wall. The desktop PC has essentially ceased to exist. Laptops or tablets for mobile workers, thin clients for everyone else. You don't think "phablets" are post PC?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Maybe for you, but in the enterprise the writing is on the wall. The desktop PC has essentially ceased to exist.

Interesting, since one other member here commented that only corporations are buying desktop PCs.

If "enterprises" aren't buying desktops, and consumers aren't buying desktops, then who is?

Edit: "Gamers"? Are they the last ones to hold the desktop line?

Edit: And as an aside, aren't "thin clients" basically just a big excuse for your remote-desktop server software provider to ratchet up the licensing fees? Considering that purchased PCs always come with a Windows OS license, it seems like a wash to go with thin clients. (Edit: Power savings?)

 

[Eug]

Maybe for you, but in the enterprise the writing is on the wall. The desktop PC has essentially ceased to exist. Laptops or tablets for mobile workers, thin clients for everyone else. You don't think "phablets" are post PC?

Interesting, since one other member here commented that only corporations are buying desktop PCs.

If "enterprises" aren't buying desktops, and consumers aren't buying desktops, then who is?

Edit: "Gamers"? Are they the last ones to hold the desktop line?

I'd say about 98% of our workplace (10000 people) is on desktops. 2% laptops. 0 thin client.