Brian & Anand Hate SD Card's in Phones

[Muse]

I ordered a 32GB Sony microSDHC Class 10 card last night for my new Nokia Lumia 520, my first smartphone, which I've had a little over two weeks (that card is getting really high praise in the buyer reviews at Amazon and does not cost much more than the cheaper 32GB cards). I currently have an 8GB card in it, but yesterday put ~7GB worth of MP3s on it and am getting messages on start up that the SD card memory is low. So, I ordered a bigger card. AFAIC, the more the better. I was considering the Moto G, but the 16GB limit (8GB for the cheaper one) was a big concern. A very big plus for me on the Nokia was the SD card slot, I have a ton of big MP3 music files I'd like to have on the phone without having to swap frequently. Yes, I'm a newbie, but I can't think personally of a reasonable argument against having secondary storage on a smartphone.

Isn't his main point that it compromises build quality? Which is absurd point. Why don't he say the same for SIM card? We should just get rid of SIM card too. We don't need SIM card and it's at expense of build quality. I don't bother reading Anandtech reviews anymore.

I have never been in the habit of reading Anandtech reviews.

The words "savings" and "Verizon" are not compatible with each other. The last time my wife upgraded we were required to switch over to a family share plan. Our combined data went down from 4GB to 2GB a month and the bill increased by about $20 a month. I so wish I could tell Verizon to stick it, but where I live they are pretty much the only carrier with decent (not great) coverage.

Here, evidently Verizon is the only game in town unless you want constant dropped calls or no coverage whatever. Of course, with my 520 I'm on AT&T, and so far it's been very hit and miss. The 520's got offline GPS, which was a number one priority for me but if I come to want consistent coverage it looks like I'll have to move to Verizon. I saw in the paper yesterday that Walmart is selling 5S iPhones for $129 and 5C's for $29, with 2 year contracts. I'm wondering if an iPhone is in my future. So far I have bought exactly nothing Apple, except their stock a few times.

 

[TheStu]

I ordered a 32GB Sony microSDHC Class 10 card last night for my new Nokia Lumia 520, my first smartphone, which I've had a little over two weeks (that card is getting really high praise in the buyer reviews at Amazon and does not cost much more than the cheaper 32GB cards). I currently have an 8GB card in it, but yesterday put ~7GB worth of MP3s on it and am getting messages on start up that the SD card memory is low. So, I ordered a bigger card. AFAIC, the more the better. I was considering the Moto G, but the 16GB limit (8GB for the cheaper one) was a big concern. A very big plus for me on the Nokia was the SD card slot, I have a ton of big MP3 music files I'd like to have on the phone without having to swap frequently. Yes, I'm a newbie, but I can't think personally of a reasonable argument against having secondary storage on a smartphone. I have never been in the habit of reading Anandtech reviews.

Design is all about trade-offs. So, using the iPhone as an example, they wanted a 4" display, they wanted the newer SOCs, they wanted 4G, BT, and Wifi. They want a camera, and then want another camera. It also needs to have a SIM card slot. They didn't want the battery life to be any less than it was before, and they wanted it to fit within certain dimensions. Adding a user accessible microSD card slot into that mix would have screwed up too many parameters.

Samsung can get away with including one for any number of reasons, but the simplest is, they have no problem with altering the designs between generations. Their supply lines are shorter than Apple's so it's easier for them to make those kinds of changes, and since they work in plastic, the sunk costs are lower, and they don't need to get multiple years of use out of their designs in order to meet their margins. Also, their margins may be lower.

If I had to to choose between 2 identical devices, and the only difference was that one had a microSD card slot, and the other didn't, then I would probably go for the one with the microSD slot (assuming it wasn't too much more expensive). But Apple doesn't do that, and I greatly prefer iOS to Android or Windows Phone (actually, WinPho is a VERY close second, but I have too many other iDevices, it's easier to just play in Apple's garden completely).

 

[TerryMathews]

Adding a user accessible microSD card slot into that mix would have screwed up too many parameters.

It would've fit in the space they saved switching from 30 pin to lightning...

 

[TheStu]

It would've fit in the space they saved switching from 30 pin to lightning...

Where does either the speaker or the mic go?

Remember, they also moved the headphone jack to the bottom on the 5 to free up space at the top for... stuff.

 

[Muse]

If I had to to choose between 2 identical devices, and the only difference was that one had a microSD card slot, and the other didn't, then I would probably go for the one with the microSD slot (assuming it wasn't too much more expensive). But Apple doesn't do that, and I greatly prefer iOS to Android or Windows Phone (actually, WinPho is a VERY close second, but I have too many other iDevices, it's easier to just play in Apple's garden completely).

The only Apple I have ever bought is their stock a few times.

I'm loving WinPhone so far. It's been phenomenally snappy. The Nokia 520 has been a little wonder compared to every PC I've ever used. Of course I can do incredible things with a PC that I don't know that I can do at all on my WinPhone, but so far I'm not seeing glitches with the Winphone. And the cost so far is $59.99 + $10/30 days plan, + SD card + screen protectors.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The words "savings" and "Verizon" are not compatible with each other. The last time my wife upgraded we were required to switch over to a family share plan. Our combined data went down from 4GB to 2GB a month and the bill increased by about $20 a month. I so wish I could tell Verizon to stick it, but where I live they are pretty much the only carrier with decent (not great) coverage.

Last time I upgraded I ended up with a cheaper bill when I changed the second line off unlimited. I will have to see the breakdown prior to signing up though because I don't know the extent of their offerings.

 

[TerryMathews]

Where does either the speaker or the mic go?

Remember, they also moved the headphone jack to the bottom on the 5 to free up space at the top for... stuff.

Not my problem. Point is, they had a design change that freed up enough space. That they prioritized a humidity sensor or second gyroscope or NSA downlink over MicroSD support is a separate conversation from "they can't alter their device to accommodate the size."

They did alter their device. The space was created.

 

[TheStu]

Not my problem. Point is, they had a design change that freed up enough space. That they prioritized a humidity sensor or second gyroscope or NSA downlink over MicroSD support is a separate conversation from "they can't alter their device to accommodate the size."

They did alter their device. The space was created.

I never said that they can't alter the device to accommodate it, I said that design is a series of trade-offs, or compromises. Anyone telling you otherwise is selling something.

Do you have an iPhone? If not, then was the lack of microSD slot honestly a determining factor? Really? And if you have one then well... you bought one anyway, so why should the manufacturer care?

 

[TerryMathews]

I never said that they can't alter the device to accommodate it, I said that design is a series of trade-offs, or compromises. Anyone telling you otherwise is selling something.

Do you have an iPhone? If not, then was the lack of microSD slot honestly a determining factor? Really? And if you have one then well... you bought one anyway, so why should the manufacturer care?

No, you said "where does the speaker or mic go" as though you were correcting me. Which is nuts because i was right.

To your other question, I'm replying to you on a Galaxy Note 2 with a 64GB MicroSD which currently has House of Cards on it that I watch on lunch. I have another MicroSD packed with Archer and True Detectve. Does that answer your question?

 

[TheStu]

No, you said "where does the speaker or mic go" as though you were correcting me. Which is nuts because i was right.

To your other question, I'm replying to you on a Galaxy Note 2 with a 64GB MicroSD which currently has House of Cards on it that I watch on lunch. I have another MicroSD packed with Archer and True Detectve. Does that answer your question?

You may not have been right was my point. They made the system thinner at the same time that they removed the 30 pin adapter. Then there's the question of how much volume would a microSD card slot actually take up inside the device? I'm not sure, are you?

It doesn't really answer my question, at least not completely. I asked if you had an iPhone, it sounds like that's a No. Then I asked if the lack of microSD was a determining factor, and you didn't answer that. I guess maybe it was? But hypothetically, if Apple had included a microSD slot, would you have an iPhone 5 right now instead of the Note 2?

 

[TerryMathews]

You may not have been right was my point. They made the system thinner at the same time that they removed the 30 pin adapter. Then there's the question of how much volume would a microSD card slot actually take up inside the device? I'm not sure, are you?

It doesn't really answer my question, at least not completely. I asked if you had an iPhone, it sounds like that's a No. Then I asked if the lack of microSD was a determining factor, and you didn't answer that. I guess maybe it was? But hypothetically, if Apple had included a microSD slot, would you have an iPhone 5 right now instead of the Note 2?

I'm quite sure there was enough volume freed. I dont think you understand how little volume they actually take up.

Ok, let me try to answer your question more directly:
I never considered the iPhone as it did not contain one of my required features. Had Apple offered a model with a uSD slot I would have considered it. Would I have bought it? I dont know, maybe? Ive owned iDevices before I'm not terrible adverse. I just dont like how limited Apple makes them.

Finally let's be honest with one another: Apple not offering MicroSD slots has nothing to do with size considerations and everything to do with profit margins.

Last weekend we were taking a car trip. I had my Note 2 and my Shield with me. I wanted to watch House of Cards but I didnt want to run my phone down and I forgot my car charger. I was able to swap the SD card in ~10 seconds. Try doing that with an iPhone and an iPad.

 

[Muse]

The words "savings" and "Verizon" are not compatible with each other.

Well, I have a Pagepluscellular pay as you go account that costs me $10 every 120 days and it uses Verizon's network. I get the best coverage available in my area by a wide margin and out of pocket is a minimum. I don't use the phone a lot, it's my old flip phone (LG VX4500). But when I have coverage, it's almost always there! And my unused account value rolls over. I think I'm going to keep it active for a while. My new Nokia 520 is great except for one thing: it uses the AT&T network.

 

[TheStu]

I'm quite sure there was enough volume freed. I dont think you understand how little volume they actually take up.

Ok, let me try to answer your question more directly:
I never considered the iPhone as it did not contain one of my required features. Had Apple offered a model with a uSD slot I would have considered it. Would I have bought it? I dont know, maybe? Ive owned iDevices before I'm not terrible adverse. I just dont like how limited Apple makes them.

Fair enough.

Finally let's be honest with one another: Apple not offering MicroSD slots has nothing to do with size considerations and everything to do with profit margins.

Of course

Last weekend we were taking a car trip. I had my Note 2 and my Shield with me. I wanted to watch House of Cards but I didnt want to run my phone down and I forgot my car charger. I was able to swap the SD card in ~10 seconds. Try doing that with an iPhone and an iPad.

You're right, you could potentially AirDrop the files between the 2, but that would take a while to transfer.

Me personally though? I'd have the charger in my car, it's always in my car. If I'm in someone else's car, it's in my bag). But, I wouldn't anyway, because I get motion sickness from that sort of thing, I'd only be able to listen, not watch.

I never said there weren't advantages, I never said that Apple not including it was the right decision, I was just laying out part of why they didn't.

 

[TerryMathews]

Me personally though? I'd have the charger in my car, it's always in my car. If I'm in someone else's car, it's in my bag). But, I wouldn't anyway, because I get motion sickness from that sort of thing, I'd only be able to listen, not watch.

I was in someone else's car, which is why I didnt have to drive. Leaving the charger at home was an oversight but it's still nice to have that added flexibility.

 

[CZroe]

I left the Apple ecosystem for three reasons:
Expandable storage
Replaceable battery
Larger screen

Yes, SD cards were a big part of that decision.

 

[Brian Stirling]

You may not have been right was my point. They made the system thinner at the same time that they removed the 30 pin adapter. Then there's the question of how much volume would a microSD card slot actually take up inside the device? I'm not sure, are you?

It doesn't really answer my question, at least not completely. I asked if you had an iPhone, it sounds like that's a No. Then I asked if the lack of microSD was a determining factor, and you didn't answer that. I guess maybe it was? But hypothetically, if Apple had included a microSD slot, would you have an iPhone 5 right now instead of the Note 2?

A uSD card occupies 165 mm^3 while the iP5S occupies 55136 mm^3. That means the uSD card occupies less than 0.3% the volume of the iP5S. Add in the overhead for the connector and electronics and the total volume needed to provide a uSD card is still less than 1% of the volume of the iP5S.

Me thinks space has zero to do with it ... ZERO!

What does drive Apple is money and having a means to charge the customer more by offering a base model and then screwing the customer if they want more. That's there game and I'd prefer not to play it!


Brian

 

[accguy9009]

That's just plain dumb. External SD is not slow as hell at all. I have 3 64gb cards that perform just fine and they were 55 bucks. I agree that there should be higher capacity built into phones but saying SD option sucks for stupid reasons is stupid.

This post makes way too much sense. The comments like "get rid of SD cards i do everything in the cloud" annoy me. The cloud is great its always there but don't take away my SD card. I like knowing its always an option.

 

[cmdrdredd]

This post makes way too much sense. The comments like "get rid of SD cards i do everything in the cloud" annoy me. The cloud is great its always there but don't take away my SD card. I like knowing its always an option.

Also, you are in control of your data when it's on your drive or memory stick. In the cloud kind of tosses that out the window.You end up at the mercy of whoever controls the cloud service. I also feel that removing the user's choice to use or not use an SD card is pretty shady too. Especially when many of these cloud services aren't free.

 

[accguy9009]

A uSD card occupies 165 mm^3 while the iP5S occupies 55136 mm^3. That means the uSD card occupies less than 0.3% the volume of the iP5S. Add in the overhead for the connector and electronics and the total volume needed to provide a uSD card is still less than 1% of the volume of the iP5S.

Me thinks space has zero to do with it ... ZERO!

What does drive Apple is money and having a means to charge the customer more by offering a base model and then screwing the customer if they want more. That's there game and I'd prefer not to play it!



Brian

Here, here! , my good man, spot on mate! I like where your head is at. why carry your music, movies with you when we can stream them/host them on our cloud service for you. Sadly to many of us have "unlimited data plans" as advertised but they are actually limited data, capped at 2.5GB or 4Gb from our carriers and 5 GB of iCloud doesn't go that far.

 

[accguy9009]

Playing movies is not much of a speed test. BD, FI, maxes out at just under 4MBps.

http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=4076

The Lexar in the first post is doing a whopping 6, yes, six, IOPS. I'm pretty sure I wasn't even born when HDDs were capable of better than that. Even MicroSDs that can do faster than modern HDDs can't do it in the readers of most phone SoCs, yet (mine all test faster in USB readers than in my phone, FI).

many of us want the SD cards for music and movies. the SD cards are fast enuf for our main purpose of the storage they provide. If you don't want them fine but many of us want this option.

 

[accguy9009]

I don't see the point in filling up a 64gb card with 1080p movies to watch on a tiny 4.5 inch screen.

Oh wait, most people don't, which is why no SD card is fine for most.

Does it bother you that someone else might want to put all 5 seasons of say breaking bad and 3 seasons of say game of thrones in 480p on their 5inch screen? If someone wanted to do this along with say 15 GB of flac audio is this going to offend your sensibilities? Why do you care what others choose to do on their own devices?

 

[Cerb]

many of us want the SD cards for music and movies. the SD cards are fast enuf for our main purpose of the storage they provide. If you don't want them fine but many of us want this option.

Then have at it. I'll keep giving money to Sandisk, Samsung, and Toshiba, while you hope your randomly-chosen card on sale works out (pray your email doesn't exceed your internal storage...). In the mean time, you help keep them from getting faster, by buying the slow ones over and over again--IE, not enough demand.

 

[accguy9009]

Adding a user accessible microSD card slot into that mix would have screwed up too many parameters.

Sorry to disagree with you but Apple has not put card readers in any mobile device I can I remember since well, forever. If they wanted to offer an SD card option they would find a way. They chose not to do so a long time ago.

 

[accguy9009]

Then have at it. I'll keep giving money to Sandisk, Samsung, and Toshiba, while you hope your randomly-chosen card on sale works out (pray your email doesn't exceed your internal storage...). In the mean time, you help keep them from getting faster, by buying the slow ones over and over again--IE, not enough demand.

What makes you assume I would not buy the proper card? Why would I buy a random card when I could buy one to work correctly in the device it is intended to be used in for the purpose it is intended?

 

[Cerb]

What makes you assume I would not buy the proper card?

many of us want the SD cards for music and movies. the SD cards are fast enuf for our main purpose of the storage they provide.

That, combined with the context of what you were quoting: that any old SD is fast enough because it can stream a low-bitrate movie, so there's no need for anything but internal storage to be performant.