Brian & Anand Hate SD Card's in Phones

[dawheat]

Just because I can disable it doesn't mean the phone is any less laggy and bloated. The crapola files are still in the tree. Even though the Note 3 has awesome hardware, it feels like garbage compared to a Nexus 7 or a Moto X (of the same Android version).

Samsung needs better software with less bloat.

Wish I could roll my eyes. Just by disabling all the smart watch and motions I don't use and disabling apps I don't use via stock app manager, the Note 3 is great and way faster than my Nexus 7 where I did the exact same thing (though in fairness there was less to disable)

I have 22 gigs of internal storage available with all my apps loaded and another 45 gigs of music and movies on my SD card. In regular use there's normally close to 1 gig of memory free and I don't get any hiccups.

No phone is perfect but even a non techie can get the Note 3 close to it in 7 minutes.

 

[openwheel]

boy it is really difficult on this forum to criticize either Apple or Samsung. It is always the same $H#%.

btw not all Note 3 are made equal either. I've found at least 2 different camera sensors that result in different photos. I kept the better one of course, and sold the other. Many have also noticed the same on XDA, but most people don't seem to care....

 

[WelshBloke]

boy it is really difficult on this forum to criticize either Apple or Samsung. It is always the same $H#%.

Criticism is fine... You're probably going to need more than "less refined" though.

Seriously there's plenty to criticise without making stuff up.

 

[5150Joker]

Sounds like something is wrong with your Note 3.

I agree Samsung could do better (or better yet just drop most of their shovelware) but a Note 3 in proper condition is not slow.

Too funny.."in proper condition". Meanwhile my WP Lumia 1520 works out of box extremely well and ultra smooth without resorting to third party roms or having to put it in some kind of "condition". I ditched Android for that reason and will never look back. Its a shame that more people don't give WP a fair chance, IMO it is the smoothest OS on the market.

 

[openwheel]

BTW dawheat my phone is less bloaty than yours with more available RAM. The Note 3 is fast but we just have to agree to disagree that a NEXUS 7 can be smoother than a properly setup Note 3.

 

[WelshBloke]

BTW dawheat my phone is less bloaty than yours with more available RAM. The Note 3 is fast but we just have to agree to disagree that a NEXUS 7 can be smoother than a properly setup Note 3.

Not sure what you're going for with that screenie, care to explain?

 

[s44]

Its a shame that more people don't give WP a fair chance, IMO it is the smoothest OS on the market.

That's because "smoothness" is a BS quality that a very, very few obsessives latched on to after Android took the decisive tech lead in 2011. (Much like color calibration, which Anand and other Apple supporters didn't find important -- I believe the OG Droid killed the iPhones of the day at this -- until after Android passed Apple in the resolution/density wars.)

No one cares how "smooth" WP is because it achieved that by not being able to do much. The horror of iOS 7 -- which finally enabled real multitasking -- on older hardware showed that Apple had been doing much the same thing. Of course, at least iOS has all the apps you'd want...

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

That's because "smoothness" is a BS quality that a very, very few obsessives latched on to after Android took the decisive tech lead in 2011. (Much like color calibration, which Anand and other Apple supporters didn't find important -- I believe the OG Droid killed the iPhones of the day at this -- until after Android passed Apple in the resolution/density wars.)

No one cares how "smooth" WP is because it achieved that by not being able to do much. The horror of iOS 7 -- which finally enabled real multitasking -- on older hardware showed that Apple had been doing much the same thing. Of course, at least iOS has all the apps you'd want...

Just because you don't care about smoothness doesn't mean it's a BS quality. It's a quality that matters to me, but it's not going to prevent me from buying an Android. Go run the Google Voice app and look at how frustratingly choppy it is. Is that a make or break for me using Android? No, but it's pretty disappointing, and it would be far more disappointing if all my apps ran like that (remember the OG Droid? Yeah. That's what 2010 felt like).

As for iOS7, a lot of the visuals helped slow it down too. And what is "true multitasking" anyway? Android doesn't have "true multitasking" either. It's not the kind of multitasking you have on your PC anyway. I don't feel like I skipped a beat on iOS6 versus iOS7 on my iPhone at all. If anything "true multitasking" is just some advantage people keep touting on paper that really doesn't mean anything.

 

[Zaap]

Too funny.."in proper condition". Meanwhile my WP Lumia 1520 works out of box extremely well and ultra smooth without resorting to third party roms or having to put it in some kind of "condition". I ditched Android for that reason and will never look back. Its a shame that more people don't give WP a fair chance, IMO it is the smoothest OS on the market.

"Proper condition " just means working properly without some issue dragging it down. Do you consider your car in proper condition meaning you've had to do something extra-ordinary to it, or just that it's working as it should?

That's exactly the opposite of running some beta-level ROM or whatever else people do to screw up their phones then complain it's slow. It's also telling how some people insist things like that then get mad when several other people say it's just them. (ie one person feels their experience trumps multiple other people with the same hardware.)

Thanks though for providing an absolute textbook example of misreading something entirely the way you wanted to read it rather than what was actually said.

I'm glad you like Windows 95 phone. Personally I couldn't stand going that far back in time if MS paid me.

 

[TerryMathews]

Android doesn't have "true multitasking" either. It's not the kind of multitasking you have on your PC anyway.

Look, if you're going to correct someone you have to be right. Android which runs on a Linux kernel is a full multitasking OS just like your desktop PC. You can check running processes with "ps ax". You can create a swap partition and enable swapping.

Its configured to aggressively close idle apps due to limited memory space however those settings can be changed.

 

[Zaap]

BTW dawheat my phone is less bloaty than yours with more available RAM. The Note 3 is fast but we just have to agree to disagree that a NEXUS 7 can be smoother than a properly setup Note 3.

Just a guess: since available RAM seems a big focus for you, are you using task killers? Otherwise actually known-as Android speed and stability killers?

 

[TerryMathews]

Just a guess: since available RAM seems a big focus for you, are you using task killers? Otherwise actually known-as Android speed and stability killers?

With uptime of 102 hours, he'd almost have to be using one.

 

[openwheel]

I don't use task killer app. Never had. RAM is not a big focus for me, just trying to make point out Samsung's stock ROM is bloated and inefficient. Even with better hardware, it still lags behind Nexus in term of smoothness. I thought this was universally known in the tech World.

This is said everywhere from Leo LePort to Myriam Joire and almost all experts agree.

 

[CZroe]

I don't use task killer app. Never had. RAM is not a big focus for me, just trying to make point out Samsung's stock ROM is bloated and inefficient. Even with better hardware, it still lags behind Nexus in term of smoothness. I thought this was universally known in the tech World.

This is said everywhere from Leo LePort to Myriam Joire and almost all experts agree.

It's not nearly as bad as it looks. Only about 2.25GB is addressable as system memory because the rest is reserved for the GPU. Only fakes show 3GB available (yes, there are clone/fake Gnote3 phones).

 

[magomago]

imo AT isn't the best place for smart phone reviews. They know computer tech well, but that doesn't necessarily translate to understanding what a phone should be about.

I have a nexus 4 with unlimited data so I'm happy with it, but everyone screaming "its in the cloud" needs to remember that most people don't have unlimited data caps.

I do see sd cards going away in the future because (a) they can save a few cents by not integrating it and (b) can get people to buy higher capacity phones and (c) many people don't even use the SD card anyways.

I think after taking a few steps back from the initial rage of this statement, I can see it a bit better.

SD cards aren't necessary if phone manufacturers provide reasonable amounts of space. However, if they don't, then I see SD cards as a great way out.

We used to tout SD cards as a huge advantage over iProducts, but now we're getting gouged the same. 16gb phones as starting options even when that was the same option offered in 2009 with the cheapest iPhone 3GS.

Samsung to me has been doing the best by offering 32gb options AND the SD card. To me, the real starting option should be 32 with a 64gb option for all phones this year unless they offer SD cards.

It's unfortunate that Google's killing sd cards off.

Well thank you for not raging at me. I'm not saying we don't NEED SD Cards, I'm just pointing out what the industry is going towards.

Honestly having an SD card slot should ALWAYS be a plus.

However, apple clearly showed that an SD card isn't a key driver of sales, and if anything, they showed that people will pay a huge profit premium for extra storage. That last part can't be understated enough- at the volumes of millions of chips (probably tens of millions of chips for apple), I would think that, at a BOM level, an extra 16-32gigs of storage costs no more than an extra 50 cents.

So when other companies see this, what do you think they will tend to? What vocally tech savvy customers say we want, or what the actual sales numbers show?

 

[sm625]

With uptime of 102 hours, he'd almost have to be using one.

What's strange about that? I haven't restarted my phone in 2 months. It always has 70MB-150MB free. It only has 750MB of usable memory anyway, and its not really an issue except sometimes it has to reload web pages if I tab over to to many other things and then try to go back.

 

[TerryMathews]

What's strange about that? I haven't restarted my phone in 2 months. It always has 70MB-150MB free. It only has 750MB of usable memory anyway, and its not really an issue except sometimes it has to reload web pages if I tab over to to many other things and then try to go back.

My point was at 102 hours memory utilization should be much higher than 50%.

 

[WelshBloke]

What's strange about that? I haven't restarted my phone in 2 months. It always has 70MB-150MB free. It only has 750MB of usable memory anyway, and its not really an issue except sometimes it has to reload web pages if I tab over to to many other things and then try to go back.

The phone I use as an internet radio/google music/podcast streamer plugged into my kitchen stereo was over 1200 hours last time I checked.

 

[xantub]

It's not only data. Last couple of games I've downloaded have been about 1GB each. Without an SD card I would have had to reduce my music library and/or delete apps and games. I won't ever buy a smartphone without the ability to have storage expansion.

 

[Rdmkr]

I don't use task killer app. Never had. RAM is not a big focus for me, just trying to make point out Samsung's stock ROM is bloated and inefficient. Even with better hardware, it still lags behind Nexus in term of smoothness. I thought this was universally known in the tech World.

This is said everywhere from Leo LePort to Myriam Joire and almost all experts agree.

its been my understanding that android always fills up ram up to a certain percentage of the total just so it doesnt sit there completely unused so you may as well not have it. just that its listed as "used" doesnt mean its claimed by any processes of remotely high priority and cant (or wont) be freed up again on a moments notice.

 

[magomago]

*throws on elitist hat*
empty ram is wasted ram. I don't understand why people want 75%+ of their ram to never be utilized. If the OS has good memory management, it will be able to effectively allocate ram around as its needed. Sometimes I feel smart phone users are a couple generations behind pc users when it comes to this thinking.
Now to be fair I don't know how good or bad android memory management is, but I generally approach a question like this skeptically
*takes off elitist hat*

 

[cmdrdredd]

*throws on elitist hat*
empty ram is wasted ram. I don't understand why people want 75%+ of their ram to never be utilized. If the OS has good memory management, it will be able to effectively allocate ram around as its needed. Sometimes I feel smart phone users are a couple generations behind pc users when it comes to this thinking.
Now to be fair I don't know how good or bad android memory management is, but I generally approach a question like this skeptically
*takes off elitist hat*

On my pc, windows never hogs memory just to hog memory. Good try though.

 

[BoberFett]

On my pc, windows never hogs memory just to hog memory. Good try though.

Actually it does, even if you don't realize it. Even if it's not allocated to applications, you can always use it for cache.

 

[magomago]

On my pc, windows never hogs memory just to hog memory. Good try though.

If I open a couple commonly used programs and then close them, I don't end up with the same amount of memory in a 'before vs after' situation. If I close and reopen I a program, it loads much faster.
Data may stay in ram because there is no pressing need to clear it out. If my smart phone says 300 MB out of 2 GB of ram free, how much of that 1700MB is just cached app data that allows me to load up my commonly used applications even faster?
I don't know the answer, but it makes sense for an OS to manage the memory in a method that doesn't prioritize flushing everything out to keep an empty bucket. Even if a program is closed, it can be better to keep that data in memory because it may be accessed again. If a task requests more memory than is available, then you go back and clear out what isn't commonly used. Give me 16GB of full ram that is well managed.

 

[TerryMathews]

On my pc, windows never hogs memory just to hog memory. Good try though.

So you enjoy your PC sacrificing performance in order to keep more memory free?