Brian & Anand Hate SD Card's in Phones

Page 13 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
To revise what I said earlier, I could actually make use of 512GB of storage. Then I could carry my full music collection around as lossless FLAC instead of as lossy MP3 / AAC and never worry about stutter or silence from a dropped wifi connection.

Someday.....
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
9,427
16
81
I can't stress enough how crap that podcast is.
It was the original Vergecast, not the Mobile one, but remember when Nilay and Josh were laughing at one of their new hires' Infuse, calling it "that absurdly large phone"?

Hahahahaha.
 

deputc26

Senior member
Nov 7, 2008
548
1
76
This thread has surfaced an issue with the professional subculture of technology reviewers, because they are constantly cycling through devices, their short term useage patterns closely correspond to that of most users but their long term useage patterns do not.
Which introduces a bias toward short term characteristics relative to the average user.

Edit: and I forgot to mention, replaceable batteries, and to a lesser extent sd cards, are long term concerns.

The obsession with precision manufacturing and build quality among well known reviewers reminds me of my friends that are rabid car enthusiasts or rabid audiophiles. These people will obsess over their favorite brand of car wax or micro-arcing in their solid gold audio cables with surprising passion, which is cool and all for the select few but there's no functional advantage so most people just don't care. In fact I think the main reason these people are so obsessive is that they've built their personal identity around these things so they feel that the quality of their toys improves their social status or is somehow reflective of their value as human beings, or something...
 
Last edited:

blairharrington

Senior member
Jan 1, 2009
767
0
71
It was the original Vergecast, not the Mobile one, but remember when Nilay and Josh were laughing at one of their new hires' Infuse, calling it "that absurdly large phone"?

Hahahahaha.

No I'm specifically referring to the Verge Mobile podcast. Not the Vergecast.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
106
This thread has surfaced an issue with the professional subculture of technology reviewers, because they are constantly cycling through devices, their short term useage patterns closely correspond to that of most users but their long term useage patterns do not.
Which introduces a bias toward short term characteristics relative to the average user.

Edit: and I forgot to mention, replaceable batteries, and to a lesser extent sd cards, are long term concerns.

The obsession with precision manufacturing and build quality among well known reviewers reminds of my friends that are rabid car enthusiasts or rabid audiophiles. These people will obsess over their favorite brand of car wax or micro-arcing in their solid gold audio cables with surprising passion, which is cool and all for the select few but there's no functional advantage so most people just don't care. In fact I think the main reason these people are so obsessive is that they've built their personal identity around these things so they feel that the quality of their toys improves their social status or is somehow reflective of their value as human beings, or something...

With their kind of snobbishness I won't be surprised with them coming up a new "article" in the near future about how PC enthusiasts should embrace desktops PCs with soldered in CPUs, RAM, and GPU because how sleek and well built they will be and it is definitely OK for our wallets to get raped by Intel.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
Another thing not really mentioned (amazingly) in this thread is how quickly a MicroSD let's you switch out storage.

I have a (NOT slow) 64gb one I keep in my phone most of the time, but I also have three 32gb ones that when I go on trips I fill with TV shows, movies, etc. When I am in a hotel I switch these cards out and use an adaptor to watch stuff on a hotel TV.

A pen drive won't work- I am using the port for HDMI. Cloud streaming won't work as hotel WiFi usually is slow and the cell airwaves are congested. Maybe I can get some 480p-ish stream to work via Plex, or I can play the full 720p/1080p file on the TV. A MicroSD slot is the best solution.

Those three cards cost me the same as a 16gb storage upgrade on an iPhone. They aren't as fast as my 64gb one but they do the job and I keep them in a small card case.

I know 99% percent of people won't do this, but 99% won't buy a decent GPU, over clock a CPU, opt for a large SSD they have to install, etc. This place is the domain of the technical 1% except when it comes to mobile devices for some reason.

Oh and "opportunistic charging" is BS. Why do I need to be constantly vigilant about charging? With an external battery charger I never pay attention to my phone battery, wakelocks, usage patterns, charging when I can etc. When my phone beeps, I flip the battery. The closest I come to thinking about it is if I will be out all day I bring the extra battery with me. It really doesn't add much to my pocket, nothing compared to my power pack.
 
Last edited:

blairharrington

Senior member
Jan 1, 2009
767
0
71
Another thing not really mentioned (amazingly) in this thread is how quickly a MicroSD let's you switch out storage.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that an SD card allows you to shoot a ton of video or photos on vacation if your current SD is filled with music, etc.

HTC just released a variant of the One in the UK with a dual-SIM and SD card slot.
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,140
138
106
Oh and "opportunistic charging" is BS. Why do I need to be constantly vigilant about charging? With an external battery charger I never pay attention to my phone battery, wakelocks, usage patterns, charging when I can etc. When my phone beeps, I flip the battery. The closest I come to thinking about it is if I will be out all day I bring the extra battery with me. It really doesn't add much to my pocket, nothing compared to my power pack.

I couldn't agree more with this. I carry a second fully charged battery in my wallet at all times.

Opportunistic charging BAH!
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
9,427
16
81
Opportunistic charging BAH!
The funniest thing is how it's presented as a new phenomenon. iPhone users thinking about finding a socket all the time have been a joke in NYC since, well, the original iPhone launch. "Opportunistic charging" is the problem to which battery swaps are the solution.
 

Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,964
2
0
To revise what I said earlier, I could actually make use of 512GB of storage. Then I could carry my full music collection around as lossless FLAC instead of as lossy MP3 / AAC and never worry about stutter or silence from a dropped wifi connection.

Someday.....

If I had an image viewer that could display Nikon and Canon RAW images I could eat up 1TB right now -- in fact, I'd want 2TB to handle my image and video library. Do I need to carry that with me all the time? No, but why not!

Just try handling that from the cloud. How much would it cost for 1TB or cloud storage? How much would it cost to send/receive 1TB to/from the cloud?

I don't want anyone to have to buy or have that much onboard storage by why should I be denied it if I want it?


Brian
 

deputc26

Senior member
Nov 7, 2008
548
1
76
I actually do charge opportunistically, and did before I ever heard that specific phrase on AT. I wish I didn't have to but whateva... maybe I'll buy a new battery for $10 as my SGS3 used to consistently last the whole day, sure beats having to buy a whole new phone ;)
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,817
10,944
136
I actually do charge opportunistically, and did before I ever heard that specific phrase on AT. I wish I didn't have to but whateva... maybe I'll buy a new battery for $10 as my SGS3 used to consistently last the whole day, sure beats having to buy a whole new phone ;)

Samsung do a good quality 3000mah battery for the S3. I ordered one the day I ordered my S3. It makes the S3 a bit fatter but not that big. Its well worth getting if you're getting a new battery anyway.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
I hate the Verge Mobile podcast but I was told they discussed the AnandTech post in response to this thread. You can listen for yourself at the 20:26 mark of episode 70. Of the four panelists only 1 was going to make case for SD cards and his feed got cut off and I couldn't get myself to keep listening to potentially hear his side. At one point Vlad makes the case against SD cards because they are too small and too easy to lose. I can't stress enough how crap that podcast is. Production value alone is a joke.

Keeping up with this thread just hammers home for me at least how valuable SD cards truly are in phones.
How do you lose SD cards in phones? Every phone I'd had with an SD slot has used either the shape of the battery cover, or the battery itself, to hold them in place. That's Motorola and Nokia camera phones, up till now. There's a reason I call it expanded storage, not removable :).

The few tablets I've used with SD slots have had an excellent friction-fit. I would at least hope the same is true for the few phnoes with an external MicroSD slot. Plus, you can buy credit-card-size many-MicroSD holders at big box stores, should you use them as removable (I saw one at either Walmart or Target just a few weeks ago).

I've got no problem hating on SD. At all. It's a shame, IMO, that it was the best out there when everybody needed something smaller than CF, that wasn't limited to single companies (mainly Sony). But at least hate on SD for its real problems. :) I lose loose SD cards, but no more often than I lose much larger USB sticks.

Oh and "opportunistic charging" is BS. Why do I need to be constantly vigilant about charging? With an external battery charger I never pay attention to my phone battery, wakelocks, usage patterns, charging when I can etc. When my phone beeps, I flip the battery. The closest I come to thinking about it is if I will be out all day I bring the extra battery with me. It really doesn't add much to my pocket, nothing compared to my power pack.
Lithium-Ion batteries lose cycles and capacity faster with deeper discharges. Since I rooted my phone and removed the crapware (a problem as bad for Android phones as big-name PCs, and maybe worse, since you have to go out of your way to fix it, by rooting, which may void the warranty--**** the major carriers!) it has only gone down to less than 50% for a whole day with no charging, except once in the basement of a concrete building (low signal still eats battery, it seems). But, waiting until the phone warns you about low battery is reducing the life of the battery. I have a midrange phone, but there are several upper echelon phones with good batteries stock, and even a few with bigger optional batteries.

Not to say you shouldn't keep a spare charged battery with you. That would be hypocritical of someone that carries around tools they usually don't need every day :). But, that is something worth looking for in reviews, and using as comparison points, when choosing a new phone.
 
Last edited:

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,817
10,944
136
How do you lose SD cards in phones?

SDcard gnomes?

I've got no problem hating on SD. At all. It's a shame, IMO, that it was the best out there when everybody needed something smaller than CF, that wasn't limited to single companies (mainly Sony). But at least hate on SD for its real problems. :)

So much the bolded. Some of the reasons are totally ludicrous. That's my main beef. Write a well reasoned review or write a trite opinion piece but don't pretend that both are the same.
 
Feb 19, 2001
20,155
23
81
How do you lose SD cards in phones? Every phone I'd had with an SD slot has used either the shape of the battery cover, or the battery itself, to hold them in place. That's Motorola and Nokia camera phones, up till now. There's a reason I call it expanded storage, not removable :).

It's very easy to lose microSD cards if you take them out. Heck I've lost even standard SD cards and microSD to SD card adapters left and right.

If you're using the SD card as fixed storage in a phone, then the issue isn't that you want portability, and just greater storage. That's why I've made my stance clear that I'm not so much caring about removable storage as it is a reasonable amount of onboard storage.

The same goes with batteries. I don't need a removable 1500mah battery. I'd rather you give me a built in 3000 mah battery that lasts more than a day, and we're good.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,817
10,944
136
It's very easy to lose microSD cards if you take them out. Heck I've lost even standard SD cards and microSD to SD card adapters left and right.

How often do you need to shuffle sdcards though? And when you do do it it's allowing you to do something that you can't achieve any other way so the possibility of losing the card is mitigated by the fact that you can change out 64gb of data instantly.


The same goes with batteries. I don't need a removable 1500mah battery. I'd rather you give me a built in 3000 mah battery that lasts more than a day, and we're good.

I'd mostly agree but doing a quick battery swap is so much more convenient than "opportunistically charging" (Aka desperately searching for a socket before your phone dies).
 
Feb 19, 2001
20,155
23
81
I'd mostly agree but doing a quick battery swap is so much more convenient than "opportunistically charging" (Aka desperately searching for a socket before your phone dies).

Agreed, but this depends on everyone's usage pattern. I'd leave work with 30% of charge on my Nexus 4 often, so if I had to drive to dinner with a few friends, yeah I'd bump charge to 50%. However, if I leave work now with 50% ore closer to 70% usually on my Nexus 5, I don't really care.

If I'm usually in situations where I don't need to desperately opportunistically charge, then I think it's less of an issue.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
And think about this for a minute. Google wants to get rid of micro-SD or any external storage option from Android because they only confuse users.... then,

"Chromebook 16 GB with 2 years of free 2TB Google Drive storage"

Make it what you will.

lol exactly.

I hope Samsung continue to add Micro-sd slots. i will continue to look at samsung first.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
lol exactly.

I hope Samsung continue to add Micro-sd slots. i will continue to look at samsung first.
Of course, half of it confusing users is that you have an "SD" mounted without any cards plugged in, which is just plain stupid, and confuses even us techie users the first time we have to deal with it. I get it, technically, but if they called it something else, like, "internal," or "phone," it would not confuse users at all.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
Get the "charging system". Best accessory ever.

Yes!!! I had this for my S2, have it for my S4. It is the Android "killer app" for me.


Agreed, but this depends on everyone's usage pattern. I'd leave work with 30% of charge on my Nexus 4 often, so if I had to drive to dinner with a few friends, yeah I'd bump charge to 50%. However, if I leave work now with 50% ore closer to 70% usually on my Nexus 5, I don't really care.

If I'm usually in situations where I don't need to desperately opportunistically charge, then I think it's less of an issue.

Sure, most days just one battery is fine.

But on those rare long days, like when you are being a tourist taking tons of pics or clubbing late with friends, to have a spare in your pocket is amazing. We have all seen those iPhone users charging at weird places like parties.

An extra battery also kicks ass when you need brute force power but don't want to pay the price. You can use the phones full power without fear.

For example, PSX emulators with a Bluetooth dualshock eat the battery. But I don't mind playing a little FF7 in the morning because I can flip the battery and not have my phone die at 6pm. When Flash worked in Android my way to get through things like wedding receptions during big football games was simply to stream then flip when Flash inevitably killed my battery in two hours.

Until we have superbatteries that last days let me flip my battery or I am not buying, even if that does defacto make me a Samsung loyalist.