You have your heart in the right place, but there's still a thing called sovereignty... We are there to free the Iraqi people from a dictator who may have supported terrorism and at the very least has yet to account for his WMD... The hope that this will ultimately offer the people a higher quality of life is secondary, and ya shouldn't fault anyone for trying to keep the argument on track. At the end of the day, yeah, I'll feel fine about liberation even if other facts don't pan out.. Just realize you can go to any country, ours included, and find some pretty inhumane acts recorded on paper that were carried out by the government -- Japanese concentration camps, Guatamala Bay, ect.. ect... You have to be sure your morals make sense in the big picture.
Geez, I attempt to save X-man from his delusions and he gets pissed off. What an ingrate. It reminds me of something, I just can't recall what.
Squisher
Lifer
- Aug 17, 2000
- 21,204
- 66
- 91
Wow, it's almost like I seem to hear the pale echos of a possible capitulation here from anti-war crowd.
Naw, I must have been dreaming.
But, no overt accusations of black opps?
Sometimes you have to cut the infection out. No amount of non-invasive care and holy water will cure it.
Squisher, your tinfoil hat's fallen down over your eyes. AHAHAHAHAHAHHA Aren't I cleaver. Maybe the Black Ops helicopter will straighten it out for you. AHAHAHAHAHA Man you're an easy mark. You on drugs too? AHAHAHAHAHAHAH I can't believe how funny I am.
X-Man, do yourself a favor and never answer your own questions. Stuff like:
"Is that what peace means to you? Sitting back and letting people be tortured, killed, raped, and everything else? I can't believe you haven't heard the stories that have come out after Saddam's fall. Scarily enough if you were President you would have done nothing and you would have let that continue. Thank God you're not."
is pure garbage thinking. It's not what peace means to me so everything you self concoct after that is just you having a conversation with yourself. I run into that form of thought here on ATOT several times a day, it seems. It's truly ass stounding.
X-Man, do yourself a favor and never answer your own questions. Stuff like:
"Is that what peace means to you? Sitting back and letting people be tortured, killed, raped, and everything else? I can't believe you haven't heard the stories that have come out after Saddam's fall. Scarily enough if you were President you would have done nothing and you would have let that continue. Thank God you're not."
is pure garbage thinking. It's not what peace means to me so everything you self concoct after that is just you having a conversation with yourself. I run into that form of thought here on ATOT several times a day, it seems. It's truly ass stounding.
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
I have been asking for proof that Iraq supported terrorism and specifically was connected with what happened in the US on Sept 11, 2001. GWB saying I have information but I can not share so trust me was never enough justification for a war.
It this turns out to be true I will say "GWB was right about this."
Turns out it was the French, Russians, and at least one liberal brit (the one who led the opposition in parliament) who were making wads of cash off "oil for food". Good ole Koffi Annon sitting back doling out cash to anybody and everybody who wanted some without the slightest bit of oversight and as it turns out accountablity. Still want the UN to administer the new Iraq?
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Thank You Dr.Smooth
Good to see 1 person has the clackers to willing admit when they were wrong(if this info truely is 100% true) I hope some of you will admit when you are/were wrong too, heck if we don't find WMD - then I'll admit I was wrong too, but I'm pretty sure I won't have to do thatCkG
Then whats it about?
Oil ?
HA.
You just can't except that things are going well and were done for the right reasons.
Am I the only one who would like more info on this? When the bush admin was talking about iraq supporting terrorism, I envisioned a Taliban-like support, not what they describe in th articles.
The big question remains: did Saddam and bin Laden have a close relationship where they worked to hurt the US, or was there a single meeting between their underlings before bin Laden became America's most wanted man?
IMO, only the latter would be a justification for the war.
The big question remains: did Saddam and bin Laden have a close relationship where they worked to hurt the US, or was there a single meeting between their underlings before bin Laden became America's most wanted man?
IMO, only the latter would be a justification for the war.
I would think that a close "taliban-like" relationship between saddam and bin laden would be unhealthy for both. the documents in this report seem to suggest that saddam wanted to set up some sort of dialog with al-queda. what happened afterwards is unknown AFAIK
I always thought the saddam-alqueda ties were the weakest of the admins arguments for
war
I always thought the saddam-alqueda ties were the weakest of the admins arguments for
war
No matter what they find, it won't be enough for (people like) you. Seems you forgot all about Saddam's agents know as the "Strikers."
Well, if it isn't Moonbeam, the resident satirist. Let it be known that you are not as smart as you think you are. And that avatar suits you quite well.
it was about repeated u.n. failure to enforce their own resolutions, which towards the end weren't worth the
paper they were written on. in fact, i think they wasted perfectly good wood pulp which would have made fantastic
toilet paper just to write a resolution which few of the signees had any intention of observing and certainly had
zero chance of being obeyed by lord saddam himself.
lest the u.n. sees radical change in its structure and policies member states will continue to use this venerable
international forum to push their narrow agendas to the detriment of global issues.
what do you mean by 'dialogue' ? the fact that one was coked up on islamic fundamentalist ideas while the other
enjoyed home-made torture videos would be grounds in itself for these like-minded lunatics to meet and chew the
fat over their mutual enemy.
the fact that such talks were held when their islamic credentials don't match tells you they had overriding concerns
that went far beyond their ideological differences. history is replete with examples of bitter foes joining forces to
combat a common threat. what the link above, and certainly the documents themselves, do not divulge, are the
ulterior and personal motivations. saddam may have been using osama as much as osama may have been using
saddam; they lived their fictions for sheer tactical reasons.
Look at the following quotes from different newspapers:
"The handwritten notes were found in a red notebook by a Chronicle reporter..."
"...the Daily Telegraph claimed to have unearthed documents showing..."
"Documents ? most marked "top secret" ? were discovered by ABCNEWS in the basements..."
"Top-secret Iraqi intelligence documents, unearthed by the Toronto Star..."
" The Sunday Times reported that its own journalists had found documents..."
Hmmm...so who really found the documents?
Maybe CIA made multiple photocopies, just to make sure that someone does find it.
"The handwritten notes were found in a red notebook by a Chronicle reporter..."
"...the Daily Telegraph claimed to have unearthed documents showing..."
"Documents ? most marked "top secret" ? were discovered by ABCNEWS in the basements..."
"Top-secret Iraqi intelligence documents, unearthed by the Toronto Star..."
" The Sunday Times reported that its own journalists had found documents..."
Hmmm...so who really found the documents?
Maybe CIA made multiple photocopies, just to make sure that someone does find it.
Originally posted by: Siwy
Look at the following quotes from different newspapers:
"The handwritten notes were found in a red notebook by a Chronicle reporter..."
"...the Daily Telegraph claimed to have unearthed documents showing..."
"Documents ? most marked "top secret" ? were discovered by ABCNEWS in the basements..."
"Top-secret Iraqi intelligence documents, unearthed by the Toronto Star..."
" The Sunday Times reported that its own journalists had found documents..."
Hmmm...so who really found the documents?
Maybe CIA made multiple photocopies, just to make sure that someone does find it.
Or maybe there were a group of journalists walking around the rubble together, and one of the reporters in the group found it. Would you just go wandering off in a war zone all alone?
Yea, yea, yea... planted this, planted that. I agree with CADkindaguy, if they don't find WMD I'll say I was wrong, but I don't think I'll have to. This is another sign of a link to al queda (like I thought would happen) and I'm sure WMD is on the way. I suggest lots of ketchup for your crow.
Answer me this: Does the article say that saddam supported osama like the Taliban did? To me it says that they had a meeting 5 months before OBL became the #1 fugitive.
But what happened after that? Did Saddam decide the risk of helping OBL was too great and never had any contact after that, or did he decide to suport OBL in the bombing of the USS Cole and in 9/11?
Originally posted by: jbond04
Originally posted by: Siwy
Look at the following quotes from different newspapers:
"The handwritten notes were found in a red notebook by a Chronicle reporter..."
"...the Daily Telegraph claimed to have unearthed documents showing..."
"Documents ? most marked "top secret" ? were discovered by ABCNEWS in the basements..."
"Top-secret Iraqi intelligence documents, unearthed by the Toronto Star..."
" The Sunday Times reported that its own journalists had found documents..."
Hmmm...so who really found the documents?
Maybe CIA made multiple photocopies, just to make sure that someone does find it.
Or maybe there were a group of journalists walking around the rubble together, and one of the reporters in the group found it. Would you just go wandering off in a war zone all alone?
According to this Telegraph article, there was only one Journalist with an interpreter, who sweet talked his way into the building and only discovered the document once he started looking through the whole bag of the documents (that he has apparently stolen) back at his hotel.
You really don't see anything fishy about this?
First you were skeptical that there was any connection. Then when they showed you a connection, you became picky (Taliban-like support? come on). The fact is, Saddam has numerous connection with terrorist organizations. Hamas and the PLA come to mind immediately. The reason why they tried to keep the Iraq-bin Laden affair a low profile is because the US is no Israel. It has (as Saddam found out later on) the capacity to topple outlaw regimes. Who knows how far Saddam and bin Laden went. But you better believe that more information like this will be coming out.
I heard the documents are circa 1995 long before Saddam would have been expected to put Osama on the wanted list for terrorist acts. Once Osama worked with us. I guess we need a regime change. There's probably a ton of secret correspondence between our government and Osama too. There is also, as yet, no evidence yet that the correspondence was any more than talk.
The notion that it's planted seems kinda off considering it amounts to so little.
Dari: "Well, if it isn't Moonbeam, the resident satirist. Let it be known that you are not as smart as you think you are. And that avatar suits you quite well.
-----------------------------
Please tell me how smart I think I am. I'm curious to know. The avatar is indeed appropriate. It's there as an occasional reminder for those who fail to notice that what they see in others is themselves.
The notion that it's planted seems kinda off considering it amounts to so little.
Dari: "Well, if it isn't Moonbeam, the resident satirist. Let it be known that you are not as smart as you think you are. And that avatar suits you quite well.
-----------------------------
Please tell me how smart I think I am. I'm curious to know. The avatar is indeed appropriate. It's there as an occasional reminder for those who fail to notice that what they see in others is themselves.
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