Brakes

[5150MyU]

Christ. Two mentions of grinding/sanding brake parts in one thread. WTF is wrong with you people? If you have to modify the pads in any way, grind/sand/modify ANYTHING, you're doing it wrong.

After trying two sets of pads that were the correct listing for the vehicle but did not fit I ground off less than 1/64 of an inch from both tabs of all four pads.
Sure, I could have beaten them in with a hammer(bad) or gone OEM, but it was just simpler to modify the pads.

 

[Greenman]

Your car does that because it's designed by the same Chinese engineer responsible for those crappy Ford Mustang transmissions. Real engineers from real countries like Japan and USA put springs in the brakes to pull the brake pads back and stop them from rubbing.

The travel distance of the brake pads is why the brakes in all Toyota vehicles feel so mushy. It's actually one if the first things people complain about when they drive a Toyota for the first time. "the pads aren't wearing down fast enough, waaaah I want my chinese designed Geo Metro back"
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/1gen-tundra/84504-soft-brakes-and-creeping/

Would you find a disk brake diagram and point out the return spring please. In 35 years of replacing brakes, I've never seen one.

 

[5150MyU]

Greenman-he doesn't know the difference between pads and shoes, nor sneakers and boots probably.

 

[Howard]

Christ. Two mentions of grinding/sanding brake parts in one thread. WTF is wrong with you people? If you have to modify the pads in any way, grind/sand/modify ANYTHING, you're doing it wrong.

Why do you say that?

The other corner I just finished now had the same type of fit (basically interference) between the pad backing and the caliper bracket, so I sanded down the corners so they fit with minimal force. The wheel now takes 3-4x longer to stop after a spin compared to the first wheel I did where the backing was super tight... but you're saying that's a bad thing?

 

[Howard]

Also, how much restoring force are the caliper pins supposed to have? One of the boots I saw "collapsed" (accordioned?) differently than the others, and after a certain amount of stroke, it folded itself in and actually pulled in the pin so that there was zero restoring force. None of the other boots had this issue - they all wanted to stick themselves out all the way. The pins themselves slid quite well.

 

[5150MyU]

The pin boots are for dust prevention-and you did the right thing.

 

[ShawnD1]

Would you find a disk brake diagram and point out the return spring please. In 35 years of replacing brakes, I've never seen one.

let me google that for you

Unless your power brake system is leaking, it's a completely closed fluid system. Springs pulling the master cylinder back will pull the brakes back to their starting position. The brakes should almost be touching but not quite. If your vehicle is a Chrysler, the brakes will be touching, the brakes will wear out in less than 10k miles and the dealership will tell you it's "working as intended"
Chrysler :thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Howard]

The pin boots are for dust prevention-and you did the right thing.

OK, but the caliper doesn't quite behave the same as the others; it doesn't counteract the action of the piston(s) at all. Just kinda sits there with the pins fully retracted. What is supposed to push the pins out (or the bracket away from the piston(s))?

 

[alkemyst]

wow at the above stuff.

where do you guys get these brake parts the require in-field modifications for standard passenger cars?

 

[Greenman]

let me google that for you

Unless your power brake system is leaking, it's a completely closed fluid system. Springs pulling the master cylinder back will pull the brakes back to their starting position. The brakes should almost be touching but not quite. If your vehicle is a Chrysler, the brakes will be touching, the brakes will wear out in less than 10k miles and the dealership will tell you it's "working as intended"
Chrysler :thumbsup::thumbsup:

That isn't a disk brake caliper, it's a master cylinder. It doesn't draw the caliper back at all, if it did, as the brakes wore down you'd have to push the pedal further down.
There is no retraction spring on a disk brake, period.

Also note that the brakes aren't a sealed system, they are vented at the master cylinder.

 

[ShawnD1]

wow at the above stuff.

where do you guys get these brake parts the require in-field modifications for standard passenger cars?

Chrysler dealership?

working as intended

 

[Howard]

wow at the above stuff.

where do you guys get these brake parts the require in-field modifications for standard passenger cars?

Doesn't everybody make their stuff in China now? My pad backings look like they were blanked from sheet metal but never went through a trimming operation - the sides are very un-square (i.e not what you'd get from a machined finish).

 

[alkemyst]

Doesn't everybody make their stuff in China now? My pad backings look like they were blanked from sheet metal but never went through a trimming operation - the sides are very un-square (i.e not what you'd get from a machined finish).

I don't buy walmart parts.

Things I buy fit properly or I take them back.

 

[Greenman]

wow at the above stuff.

where do you guys get these brake parts the require in-field modifications for standard passenger cars?

My guess would be there is corrosion on the frames that hold the pads. Though I wouldn't rule out minor imperfections in the machining of the new parts, it could be something as simple as the cutter getting dull at the factory.

 

[Howard]

Am curious how the Raybestos pads you chose will do long term. As I've never been a fan of the brand (more a Wagner/Bendix user myself), I'd be interested to find out how they wear

So far they seem to be alright. The feel is about the same as OEM... can't speak to dust yet since the rotors are still sort of "sharp".

 

[Howard]

My guess would be there is corrosion on the frames that hold the pads.

Nope. The pads came with abutment clips, which when installed (replacing the old ones) serve as the new sliding contact surface. Perfectly clean.

Well, maybe the aluminum caliper itself grew bigger where the clips are installed, but I did scrape those areas.

EDIT: The pad backings that were really tight inside the clips the other day - I pulled it apart and found that they had become fairly well sliding after a day of driving. Maybe the clips had gotten worn in or something. I then greased the clips and then had a hell of a time holding everything together to put it back into the caliper. 😀

 

[Howard]

I don't buy walmart parts.

That's nice. Go talk to someone who does and tell them not to, then.

 

[ShawnD1]

It doesn't draw the caliper back at all, if it did, as the brakes wore down you'd have to push the pedal further down.

Actually, that basically is what happens. In my Ford Tempo and my friend's Jeep YJ, the brakes had to be pushed almost to the floor before they would put any real stopping power. After replacing the front brake pads, the brakes engaged a lot sooner.

As stated above, Toyotas already behave like that even when the pads are new, and you can find lots of people on the internet who complain about the feeling of the mushy brakes (I personally like the soft brakes). The brake pedal travels a distance before the brakes actually kick in and do anything, but the brakes are still strong enough to lock the wheels with minimal effort as long as they are pushed down far enough. It's not because the hydraulic system is broken or anything. The pads just need to move a little bit before they touch anything. People try flushing the lines out or adding brake fluid and it never works because that's not the cause of the mushy feeling.

 

[alkemyst]

That's nice. Go talk to someone who does and tell them not to, then.

OK made in china parts then.

I have seen brake pads and other parts that do not fit properly...some even had instructions to modify them.

That's BS, I buy parts that fit.

 

[Howard]

OK made in china parts then.

I have seen brake pads and other parts that do not fit properly...some even had instructions to modify them.

That's BS, I buy parts that fit.

So what do you buy?

 

[exdeath]

The only time I had brake pads that didn't fit is when they gave me V6 pads instead of 4 cyl pads, and yes they are diff part numbers.

 

[Meghan54]

Unless your power brake system is leaking, it's a completely closed fluid system. Springs pulling the master cylinder back will pull the brakes back to their starting position. The brakes should almost be touching but not quite. If your vehicle is a Chrysler, the brakes will be touching, the brakes will wear out in less than 10k miles and the dealership will tell you it's "working as intended"
Chrysler :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Actually, that basically is what happens. In my Ford Tempo and my friend's Jeep YJ, the brakes had to be pushed almost to the floor before they would put any real stopping power. After replacing the front brake pads, the brakes engaged a lot sooner.

As stated above, Toyotas already behave like that even when the pads are new, and you can find lots of people on the internet who complain about the feeling of the mushy brakes (I personally like the soft brakes). The brake pedal travels a distance before the brakes actually kick in and do anything, but the brakes are still strong enough to lock the wheels with minimal effort as long as they are pushed down far enough. It's not because the hydraulic system is broken or anything. The pads just need to move a little bit before they touch anything. People try flushing the lines out or adding brake fluid and it never works because that's not the cause of the mushy feeling.

Please...stop already! You've got my brother and the mechs at his shop dieing from laughter!

Or, as I fear, and as I already said, you're just an "expert" in any area anyone talks about, even if you have no idea what's being discussed....like disc brakes in this case. And in this case, like others, you don't have a clue.


Thanks for the entertainment, though.....although I do find fleabag was much better at it than you.

 

[Doppel]

wow at the above stuff.

where do you guys get these brake parts the require in-field modifications for standard passenger cars?

Advance auto parts. It's the first time I've had to do that, though and not my first set of brakes from them.

I thought maybe gunk was in my old caliper but brushed it out pretty good. The new pads simply were really tight.

I then greased the clips and then had a hell of a time holding everything together to put it back into the caliper.

That is what I've generally experienced in the past, almost a balancing act getting the pads to stay vertical in the calipers as I get them around the rotors. The only reason I ground down the last time I did brakes on the rear is I was having some bad rubbing and the pads had certainly not worn any groove or gotten better, and even greased were not quite sliding right. Probably removed 1 mm total, two at the most from each pad.

Actually, that basically is what happens. In my Ford Tempo and my friend's Jeep YJ, the brakes had to be pushed almost to the floor before they would put any real stopping power. After replacing the front brake pads, the brakes engaged a lot sooner.

Must have been a change in pad material and/or the old pads or rotors had friction coefficient too low. Over time your travel distance of brakes should not change. Instead as pad is worn down the brake reservoir continually keeps the system topped so that old and new pads have to travel the same distance for the pedal.

 

[wirednuts]

its common to SLIGHTLY modify pads to get them to fit correctly. of course nothing drastic, but grinding down the tabs just a little so they fit into the sliders is sometimes necessary. they should slide with some force, but not be very loose and wobbly in the tracks. i have never had a problem with wobby/loose pads in their guides, but i like it better when its a snug fit. just make sure you grease it up good so rust wont form, that is key.

some cars naturally let the pads drag a little on the rotors, some cars have retaining springs to stop that from happening. and a lot of cars had retaining springs from the factory and were left off after the first brake job, which really doesnt effect much. i tend to agree you can make pads last longer by keeping the springs on there, and maybe prevent some noise, but in most cases its not going to hurt much if you leave them off.

 

[Viperoni]

I've had to grind down a few pads too. I chalked it up to the thickness of the paint on the pad, tolerances on the caliper and the small bit of corrosion built up on the pad-spring surface.