alkemyst
No Lifer
Hawk usually.
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Brakes
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Hawk usually.
Meghan54
Lifer
In all the years I've worked on cars, including doing brakes from the time cars and trucks used drums on all 4 wheels, I've never ground down any pad/shoe to fit.
I have had pads, typically off-brand ones like AutoZone, Advance, Western Auto, NAPA---esp. their lesser brands---not fit well, but using the better brands, like Wagner, Bendix, or OE, I've never had fitment problems.
And there may be very good reasons some brands don't always fit just right.
At my brother's shop (he's an ASE cert'd. mechanic running a shop in No. VA and has over 3 decades of professional experience as compared to my over 3 decades of shade tree experience), he's shown me some things that illustrate that quite well....here's one example.
Struts for Chrysler minivans. OE are quite expensive and Chrysler has hundreds of part numbers for all their applications and years......each with a slight difference in fit, valving, etc.
Monroe, on the other hand, has boiled those hundreds of part numbers down to a handful to cover the decades of minivans Chrysler has produced.
I spent a week a year or so ago and watched my brother and another of his mechanics struggle to put a set of Monroe front struts into a late '90's Chrysler minivan. The struts were the proper part number according to Monroe, yet they didn't fit well and once they got installed, the ride was less than ideal.
The customer, trying to save a $, initially requested the Monroe vs. the OE struts.....the cost difference was quite a bit between the two. But after having used the van for two days, he returned it and had Monroes taken off and the OE's put on. The OE's damned near just slipped in without a fight and the ride was demonstrably better.
So, aftermarket isn't always better. In the interest of costs, many aftermarket suppliers will distill hundreds of applications down to just a few choices....despite the fact that the few choices they offer aren't always quite perfect in fit or performance for all the applications they cover like OE would be.
Not saying all aftermarket is junk, it isn't. But never be surprised when using aftermarket if the fit isn't quite perfect or the performance isn't quite what the OE part was......this does discount the fact that performance upgrade aftermarket parts typically will outperform OE.
I have had pads, typically off-brand ones like AutoZone, Advance, Western Auto, NAPA---esp. their lesser brands---not fit well, but using the better brands, like Wagner, Bendix, or OE, I've never had fitment problems.
And there may be very good reasons some brands don't always fit just right.
At my brother's shop (he's an ASE cert'd. mechanic running a shop in No. VA and has over 3 decades of professional experience as compared to my over 3 decades of shade tree experience), he's shown me some things that illustrate that quite well....here's one example.
Struts for Chrysler minivans. OE are quite expensive and Chrysler has hundreds of part numbers for all their applications and years......each with a slight difference in fit, valving, etc.
Monroe, on the other hand, has boiled those hundreds of part numbers down to a handful to cover the decades of minivans Chrysler has produced.
I spent a week a year or so ago and watched my brother and another of his mechanics struggle to put a set of Monroe front struts into a late '90's Chrysler minivan. The struts were the proper part number according to Monroe, yet they didn't fit well and once they got installed, the ride was less than ideal.
The customer, trying to save a $, initially requested the Monroe vs. the OE struts.....the cost difference was quite a bit between the two. But after having used the van for two days, he returned it and had Monroes taken off and the OE's put on. The OE's damned near just slipped in without a fight and the ride was demonstrably better.
So, aftermarket isn't always better. In the interest of costs, many aftermarket suppliers will distill hundreds of applications down to just a few choices....despite the fact that the few choices they offer aren't always quite perfect in fit or performance for all the applications they cover like OE would be.
Not saying all aftermarket is junk, it isn't. But never be surprised when using aftermarket if the fit isn't quite perfect or the performance isn't quite what the OE part was......this does discount the fact that performance upgrade aftermarket parts typically will outperform OE.
Shoes are a different story.
I've modified more of them them then I can count on my fingers and toes.
Big old clump of bonding stuff on the backing plate, weld splatter that wasn't caught in production, paint build up causing an improper fit against the backing plate or not allowing the E-brake to function properly.
So I have car on the lift pretty much disabled, should I
A)wait for another set to be delivered.
B)just fix it and be done with it.
I've modified more of them them then I can count on my fingers and toes.
Big old clump of bonding stuff on the backing plate, weld splatter that wasn't caught in production, paint build up causing an improper fit against the backing plate or not allowing the E-brake to function properly.
So I have car on the lift pretty much disabled, should I
A)wait for another set to be delivered.
B)just fix it and be done with it.
I stick with Hawk pads and have never had an issue, always offer better stopping power than OEM with less dust and usually last longer as well for alot cheaper. HPS is great for every day use, Their HP+ is great for autocross use and there super duty line is great for pickups or any vehilce that does some towing.
Yes I can. I have been replacing brake pads for almost 20 years, and i have NEVER had to modify ANY component (Caliper, pad, anti-rattle clip, etc).
N E V E R !
See above.
I don't use Uber-elite brand pads either, usually ACDelco (I have owned a lot of GM cars) or Mid-grade from Autozone, Discount, NAPA, etc.
Again - If you have to modify a brake pad/assembly/component in ANY way - you are doing something wrong. (Incorrect assembly technique/bad pads)
I am terribly anal retentive about brake repairs though - caliper grease, clean everything, measuring disc/drum runout, repacking the bearings/etc. Or maybe I am just lucky. 🙄
Or kill someone else too.
Meghan54
Lifer
Neither have I and as I've said, I've been doing brakes since drums on all 4 wheels were the norm.
I have bought pads/shoes that didn't fit well, but they were, again, not OE or were the off-brand private marked stuff/junk AutoZone, Advance, O'Reilly's sells.
My brother finally convinced me to move to Wagner and/or Bendix and have never had to hammer, grind, cut or in any other way modify a pad or shoe to fit. If you're having to do that, the pad/shoe was manufactured incorrectly.....period. They should fit without having to modify at all.
I think some of it (not calling anyone out - I mean in general) is ignorance. not bottoming out the calipers correctly, incorrect installation / not replacing anti rattle / spring clips, not lubricating caliper pins/contact areas correctly, so on and so forth.
You can have your opinion and all, but it's my experience that with the parts that I had, there was a tight interference fit between the calipers and the abutment (anti-rattle) clips inside the pad brackets which were cleaned. Because I wanted a very light interference fit rather than a tight interference fit, I cleaned up the edges of the pad backings near the "ears" so that they wouldn't scrape so much against the clips, and I then finished off with lube in the clips.
Unless you can point out something specific, it is hardly constructive to repeatedly insist that the procedure undertaken must have been in error.
Unless you can point out something specific, it is hardly constructive to repeatedly insist that the procedure undertaken must have been in error.
I am basing my opinion on many many years of experience. you, on the other hand, just did your first brake job.
So you are a car engineer now? You decided how much of a "tight interference" fit is needed?
How can I be specific? You don't even say what kind of fucking car it is.
Why do i need to be specific? My experience isn't on one make/model, It's on a wide array of vehicles, from domestic to import.
Based on this, and your damn near complete lack of understanding on how to replace brake pads, it could be anything.
Did you replace the stainless clip assemblies? You're supposed to.
Did you properly disassemble, clean, and lubricate the caliper pins? You're supposed to.
Did you use the proper tool to depress the piston? You're supposed to.
There's more, but these are rhetorical questions, at this point I don't give a shit.
Bottom line - brake components shouldn't and DON'T need any modification to fit correctly if quality parts are installed by a competent person.
And it really pisses me off that internet forum post warriors think they are smart enough to work on these systems, incorrectly at that, and risk other people's lives.
Yes to all your questions. Have you got any more for me?
I am an engineer. And thanks to you, I now know what kind of fit I am supposed to have. 🙄
I wish you had felt this way before you posted at all.
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Don't flatter yourself, sister.
I am by far not the only one that thinks you are an idiot for taking it upon yourself to machine the parts that the auto company spent millions in R&D on.
Whatever makes you feel good, you know?
I doubt Raybestos spend millions in R&D to make his specific application of brake pad.
Who says that Raybestos didn't happen to manufacture the pad slightly large?
Maybe the pad should have failed QC...
What's the worst that could happen if you strip off the paint from both of the tabs to make the pads fit perfectly?
Meghan54
Lifer
That may be true, and it's sad that QC doesn't pick up more poorly made parts in all sorts of manufactured products, cars, computers, boats, etc.
And stripping paint is one thing, grinding metal, hammering down tabs----both of which have been mentioned as being done in this thread to make pads fit and----is another thing completely. You shouldn't have to do anything like that, so either the part was manufactured incorrectly and was missed in QC or the person installing them is unknowing.
I hate to keep trotting out my brother, an ASE cert'd mechanic with over 30 years experience in the industry, but his shop does occasionally receive parts that are like the ill fitting brake pads. Those parts go right back to the jobber and new ones that will fit are obtained.....even if it means going through multiple sets of pads/gaskets/whatever.
When your life depends upon the proper functioning of your brakes, why redneck engineer their fit? If they don't fit properly without alteration, they're wrong.
alkemyst
No Lifer
doing an improper brake job is life or death usually.
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