Boy fights to be given second round of chemo

[techs]

The cogent fact is that this is a MINOR.
For those who argue the parents should have the deciding vote in treatment you must not be very aware of the realities.
There are many, many parents who try to refuse treatment for their children on the grounds of 'new age' theories and religious beliefs.
We don't allow parents to abuse their children and refusing them reasonable medical care is abuse.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Meuge
So it's ok for parents to kill a grown kid by stopping treatment for a curable condition, but it's not ok to kill him when he's not sentient yet. Yeah... I thought so...

He has gone through Chemo once, suffered horribly and doesn't want to go through it again. IT IS HIS CHOICE.

Drop some chemo in your blood once and see what happens.

There are no guarantees when it comes to cancer.

So its his choice to earn a Darwin Award by refusing a possibly lifesaving treatment for an untested herbal remedy?

How many times have you gone through chemo therapy?
How many times have you watched someone go through chemotherapy and have it destroy them a little each day until the chemo kills them before the cancer?

I personaly have not had cancer, thankfuly. But my grandfather and grandmother both have. Both had chemo treatments, this is in the late 80s mind you, also. Both lived 10-20 years longer than they would of if they had not had the treatment.
It sucked for them, but they took it and lived longer because of it.
Why throw your life away at 16 when you can be treated and live a full one?

Maybe because that's what he wants?

Liberal thinking: rights and independence when we agree with you. Otherwise, incoming big brother government and coercion.

 

[Pens1566]

Again, zendari doesn't like it so it must be right.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: zendari
Maybe because that's what he wants?

Liberal thinking: rights and independence when we agree with you. Otherwise, incoming big brother government and coercion.

Unless you can show me how the Virginia courts (red state) and Texas courts (another red state referenced in the article that also forced a juvinile into chemo) are somehow examples of "liberal thinking," you're simply spewing a load of nonsense yet again.

Let me state this slowly and clearly, liberals believe in your body = your decision. That covers abortion, drug use, right to die issues and in this case, not forcing patients into treatment that they do not want.

It doesn't get more consistent than that.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: zendari
Maybe because that's what he wants?

Liberal thinking: rights and independence when we agree with you. Otherwise, incoming big brother government and coercion.

Unless you can show me how the Virginia courts (red state) and Texas courts (another red state referenced in the article that also forced a juvinile into chemo) are somehow examples of "liberal thinking," you're simply spewing a load of nonsense yet again.

Let me state this slowly and clearly, liberals believe in your body = your decision. That covers abortion, drug use, right to die issues and in this case, not forcing patients into treatment that they do not want.

It doesn't get more consistent than that.

Liberal thinking = this thread.

Do I need to rattle off the names of people supporting coercion?

 

[DealMonkey]

You keep repeating the same statement, Z. I'm liberal and I don't believe anyone should be forced into a medical procedure that they do not want. Doesn't my opinion matter? Or are you just going to continue foaming at the mouth about the "evil liberals."

 

[Pens1566]

This issue has no correlation wiht political lean. I'm what zentroll would call a 'libtard' and I think the kid should get his treatments. But hey, nice attempt to turn everything into a red state/blue state pissing match. It's what we expect of you.

 

[Thump553]

zendari: Were the people who pursued the nearly endless litigation to keep the brain dead Karen Shivo (sp?) alive against her expressed wishes and against the conclusions of her guardian ad litem also liberals? They insisted on massive governmental intrusion to twart the expressed will of an individual regarding that individual's health treatment. This group would include Jed Bush, George Bush, and most of the federal GOP legislators as well as a great many "right to lifers.."

If so cross my name off your list of liberals, as I refuse to be lumped in with that group.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: Pens1566

Originally posted by: waggy
sad case.
the kid knows he is going to die. why not let him die with some dignity? i have seen the effects of chemo. i would not want to be put through that twice myself.

That's just it, he isn't going to die from the CHEMO. His docs will never let that happen. He will die from not being treated though.

Chemo can and does kill people....all the time.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
This issue has no correlation wiht political lean. I'm what zentroll would call a 'libtard' and I think the kid should get his treatments. But hey, nice attempt to turn everything into a red state/blue state pissing match. It's what we expect of you.

Sure it does, the problem is, it leans both ways 😀

On the left side, it's are you an "individual rights liberal" or are you more of a "socialist, government knows what is right over you". On the right, it's are you a "must sustain life even if the government has to force it ala Schiavo" conservative or are you a "small government, libertarian" conservative.

Now IMHO the democrats are infested with socialist leftists just like the right is infested with religious right wingers. If I were to categorize here on this issue, I would say that DM is the "individual rights liberal" and you are the "socialist liberal".

It's a purple state issue 😀 It's another great example of why we need more parties in this country, for those of us who are dissatisfied with the inconsistencies in both parties.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
You keep repeating the same statement, Z. I'm liberal and I don't believe anyone should be forced into a medical procedure that they do not want. Doesn't my opinion matter? Or are you just going to continue foaming at the mouth about the "evil liberals."

Sure it does, and kudos to you for being better than the liberals who want to strap this kid down in a chair.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
You keep repeating the same statement, Z. I'm liberal and I don't believe anyone should be forced into a medical procedure that they do not want. Doesn't my opinion matter? Or are you just going to continue foaming at the mouth about the "evil liberals."

Sure it does, and kudos to you for being better than the liberals who want to strap this kid down in a chair.

Do you even know what this case is about? What in the WORLD does a LAW that this court is following have ANTYHING to do with "liberals" you friggin wackjob!?

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Pens1566

Originally posted by: waggy
sad case.
the kid knows he is going to die. why not let him die with some dignity? i have seen the effects of chemo. i would not want to be put through that twice myself.

That's just it, he isn't going to die from the CHEMO. His docs will never let that happen. He will die from not being treated though.

Chemo can and does kill people....all the time.

No. If anything kills him during treatement, it will be an infection. This can be prevented, and most likely will, by treating with daily anti-biotics. Something like Bactrim that covers a wide range of oppurtunistic infections most likely. Doctors will not give him enough chemo to kill him. If he's supposed to get a treatment, and anything is out of safe ranges, he won't get it. Plain and simple. They'll try again in a week or so, and wait until counts/vitals are in acceptable range. Chemo will weaken him and make him feel crappy in the short term. Long term is where it might present more substantial problems, Heart disease, 2nd malignancy(most likely leukemia), sterility, and some other less common ones.

Again, he doesn't know he's going to die. With treatment, pretty darn good chance he lives. Without it, not so much. Something about the family's story just doesn't sound right. It's almost like they're exaggerating his condition to help their case. Hodgkins treatment just doesn't do that . It didn't when I had it, and like I said, the treatment has become less severe since then.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Pens1566
This issue has no correlation wiht political lean. I'm what zentroll would call a 'libtard' and I think the kid should get his treatments. But hey, nice attempt to turn everything into a red state/blue state pissing match. It's what we expect of you.

Sure it does, the problem is, it leans both ways 😀

On the left side, it's are you an "individual rights liberal" or are you more of a "socialist, government knows what is right over you". On the right, it's are you a "must sustain life even if the government has to force it ala Schiavo" conservative or are you a "small government, libertarian" conservative.

Now IMHO the democrats are infested with socialist leftists just like the right is infested with religious right wingers. If I were to categorize here on this issue, I would say that DM is the "individual rights liberal" and you are the "socialist liberal".

It's a purple state issue 😀 It's another great example of why we need more parties in this country, for those of us who are dissatisfied with the inconsistencies in both parties.

They are following a LAW.. it has NOTHING to do with politics...

People's opinions in this thread MAY have to do with politics.. but that has NO RELATION to the actual topic-which is following the law..

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Pens1566
This issue has no correlation wiht political lean. I'm what zentroll would call a 'libtard' and I think the kid should get his treatments. But hey, nice attempt to turn everything into a red state/blue state pissing match. It's what we expect of you.

Sure it does, the problem is, it leans both ways 😀

On the left side, it's are you an "individual rights liberal" or are you more of a "socialist, government knows what is right over you". On the right, it's are you a "must sustain life even if the government has to force it ala Schiavo" conservative or are you a "small government, libertarian" conservative.

Now IMHO the democrats are infested with socialist leftists just like the right is infested with religious right wingers. If I were to categorize here on this issue, I would say that DM is the "individual rights liberal" and you are the "socialist liberal".

It's a purple state issue 😀 It's another great example of why we need more parties in this country, for those of us who are dissatisfied with the inconsistencies in both parties.

They are following a LAW.. it has NOTHING to do with politics...

People's opinions in this thread MAY have to do with politics.. but that has NO RELATION to the actual topic-which is following the law..

Please quote/link to the legislation. Because I don't believe you.

 

[Jaskalas]

Our dog had cancer and we gave her a treatment of chemo. After seeing the permanent side effects we did not return for further treatments, and I would not force a human to suffer it.

 

[OutHouse]

i heard about this issue this morning. and i must say it pissed me off. the courts stepped in and TOLD him he has to do chemo. So he and his parents have lost any say so in their medical treatment. They have to use treatments approved by the AMA and the FDA. thats total horse sh*t. Our governement has no right in telling parents how to treat their sick kid. Notice i did not say withold treatment that would be neglect. but to say the only treatment he can have is whats approved by the AMA or FDA is just plain wrong.

Also, what is the survival rate of chemo patients compared to patients like this boy going the alternative medicine route? I have a strong feeling they are about the same. the problem is that cancer treatment is a mulit multi billion dollar a year business. your first visit to an oncologist is $250K. The FDA and the AMA have very strong veste interest in keeping chemo the forefront of any cancer treatment and anything other than chemo is witchcraft.

the parents did not neglect thier son, the went down a treatment path that they thought was best for him. they did not withold treatment, they only thing they did was not use a treatment approved by the FDA or AMA.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: Citrix
Also, what is the survival rate of chemo patients compared to patients like this boy going the alternative medicine route? I have a strong feeling they are about the same. the problem is that cancer treatment is a mulit multi billion dollar a year business. your first visit to an oncologist is $250K. The FDA and the AMA have very strong veste interest in keeping chemo the forefront of any cancer treatment and anything other than chemo is witchcraft. for example.

the parents did not neglect thier son, the went down a treatment path that they thought was best for him. they did not withold treatment, they only thing they did was not use a treatment approved by the FDA or AMA.

Evidence?? I think the first bold is just a wild guess on your part, the second is just plain wrong.

 

[aidanjm]

saw this kid on the Today show. he appears to be quite dumb, actually. the tumor is bigger. presumably he is going to die.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Citrix
i heard about this issue this morning. and i must say it pissed me off. the courts stepped in and TOLD him he has to do chemo. So he and his parents have lost any say so in their medical treatment. They have to use treatments approved by the AMA and the FDA. thats total horse sh*t. Our governement has no right in telling parents how to treat their sick kid. Notice i did not say withold treatment that would be neglect. but to say the only treatment he can have is whats approved by the AMA or FDA is just plain wrong.

Also, what is the survival rate of chemo patients compared to patients like this boy going the alternative medicine route? I have a strong feeling they are about the same. the problem is that cancer treatment is a mulit multi billion dollar a year business. your first visit to an oncologist is $250K. The FDA and the AMA have very strong veste interest in keeping chemo the forefront of any cancer treatment and anything other than chemo is witchcraft.

the parents did not neglect thier son, the went down a treatment path that they thought was best for him. they did not withold treatment, they only thing they did was not use a treatment approved by the FDA or AMA.

The treatment(chemo) has a 85% success rate! Sure it makes him feel like sh** while on it, but WTF this is a matter of Life and Death and not feel Good/Bad. If he doesn't take it he's going to die, barring some Miracle, and his "alternative therapy" has NO proven track record.

This kid(and parents) have shown no comprehension with regards to the situation. If I was in this kids shoes I may hate it as well, may even not want to go through with it, but I'd hope my parents would be smart enough to tell me "tough sh**, you're doing it anyway!" It's obvious they won't.

Like I said, he'll thank everyone in 10 years who forced him to live.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Citrix
i heard about this issue this morning. and i must say it pissed me off. the courts stepped in and TOLD him he has to do chemo. So he and his parents have lost any say so in their medical treatment. They have to use treatments approved by the AMA and the FDA. thats total horse sh*t. Our governement has no right in telling parents how to treat their sick kid. Notice i did not say withold treatment that would be neglect. but to say the only treatment he can have is whats approved by the AMA or FDA is just plain wrong.

Also, what is the survival rate of chemo patients compared to patients like this boy going the alternative medicine route? I have a strong feeling they are about the same. the problem is that cancer treatment is a mulit multi billion dollar a year business. your first visit to an oncologist is $250K. The FDA and the AMA have very strong veste interest in keeping chemo the forefront of any cancer treatment and anything other than chemo is witchcraft.

the parents did not neglect thier son, the went down a treatment path that they thought was best for him. they did not withold treatment, they only thing they did was not use a treatment approved by the FDA or AMA.

The treatment(chemo) has a 85% success rate! Sure it makes him feel like sh** while on it, but WTF this is a matter of Life and Death and not feel Good/Bad. If he doesn't take it he's going to die, barring some Miracle, and his "alternative therapy" has NO proven track record.

This kid(and parents) have shown no comprehension with regards to the situation. If I was in this kids shoes I may hate it as well, may even not want to go through with it, but I'd hope my parents would be smart enough to tell me "tough sh**, you're doing it anyway!" It's obvious they won't.

Like I said, he'll thank everyone in 10 years who forced him to live.

I'm right with you on this one. I'm glad my parents were smarter than this kid's.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
saw this kid on the Today show. he appears to be quite dumb, actually. the tumor is bigger. presumably he is going to die.

Was there anything else from the interview that wasn't in the article??? Kid sounds dumb, huh? Can't say that shocks me. If it is bigger, and it's been some time since he quit treatment he may already be in the 15%. Depends on location and whether its spread or not. Sad. 🙁

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Pens1566
This issue has no correlation wiht political lean. I'm what zentroll would call a 'libtard' and I think the kid should get his treatments. But hey, nice attempt to turn everything into a red state/blue state pissing match. It's what we expect of you.

Sure it does, the problem is, it leans both ways 😀

On the left side, it's are you an "individual rights liberal" or are you more of a "socialist, government knows what is right over you". On the right, it's are you a "must sustain life even if the government has to force it ala Schiavo" conservative or are you a "small government, libertarian" conservative.

Now IMHO the democrats are infested with socialist leftists just like the right is infested with religious right wingers. If I were to categorize here on this issue, I would say that DM is the "individual rights liberal" and you are the "socialist liberal".

It's a purple state issue 😀 It's another great example of why we need more parties in this country, for those of us who are dissatisfied with the inconsistencies in both parties.

They are following a LAW.. it has NOTHING to do with politics...

People's opinions in this thread MAY have to do with politics.. but that has NO RELATION to the actual topic-which is following the law..

Please quote/link to the legislation. Because I don't believe you.

You don't believe that there is a law protecting children from parental neglect!? Geez... I'm sorry, but people this dumb should NOT be participating in these forums...

It is RIGHT THERE IN THE ARTICLE!!!!

"Now the Virginia family is in juvenile court, the parents are charged with medical neglect and the Accomack County social services agency has joint custody of Abraham. The agency asked the court to order the boy to undergo chemotherapy."

Medical Neglect -
failure by the caretaker to obtain and/or
follow through with a complete regimen of medical, mental or
dental care for a condition which, if untreated, could result in
illness or developmental delays.

It is now up to the COURT to determine whether this ccharge is valid under the law(nothing to do with politics)...

There are laws like this in almost, if not EVERY state... how could you be SO UNINFORMED and then think your opinion means anything more than DIDDLY SQUAT!? You can't give a meaningful opinion if you do not know what you are talking about!


You don't believe me that it is a law.. LOL! Good stuff...

 

[JS80]

Doctors need their new Mercedeses.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Pens1566

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Citrix
i heard about this issue this morning. and i must say it pissed me off. the courts stepped in and TOLD him he has to do chemo. So he and his parents have lost any say so in their medical treatment. They have to use treatments approved by the AMA and the FDA. thats total horse sh*t. Our governement has no right in telling parents how to treat their sick kid. Notice i did not say withold treatment that would be neglect. but to say the only treatment he can have is whats approved by the AMA or FDA is just plain wrong.

Also, what is the survival rate of chemo patients compared to patients like this boy going the alternative medicine route? I have a strong feeling they are about the same. the problem is that cancer treatment is a mulit multi billion dollar a year business. your first visit to an oncologist is $250K. The FDA and the AMA have very strong veste interest in keeping chemo the forefront of any cancer treatment and anything other than chemo is witchcraft.

the parents did not neglect thier son, the went down a treatment path that they thought was best for him. they did not withold treatment, they only thing they did was not use a treatment approved by the FDA or AMA.

The treatment(chemo) has a 85% success rate! Sure it makes him feel like sh** while on it, but WTF this is a matter of Life and Death and not feel Good/Bad. If he doesn't take it he's going to die, barring some Miracle, and his "alternative therapy" has NO proven track record.

This kid(and parents) have shown no comprehension with regards to the situation. If I was in this kids shoes I may hate it as well, may even not want to go through with it, but I'd hope my parents would be smart enough to tell me "tough sh**, you're doing it anyway!" It's obvious they won't.

Like I said, he'll thank everyone in 10 years who forced him to live.

I'm right with you on this one. I'm glad my parents were smarter than this kid's.

and how do you know that some other treatment wont work just as well as the chemo? the docs dont care to know or to even look at that data because no money can be made from it.