Borderlands 2 release date and preorder

[The_Golden_Man]

Newegg did a Borderlands 2 game session, demonstrating PhysX on a GTX 660. They use FRAPS to monitor FPS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAGhrunoDRQ

Pay attention to the FPS from about 12:00 minutes on the GTX 660 on the left monitor. The FPS plunges down to 30FPS when much PhysX are used. So this is proof enough for those people sitting on GTX 560/560Ti/570 (Also SLI) claiming to have butter smooth 60FPS at all times when PhysX on High. They are lying.

Looking at this, also taking in consideration Borderlands 2 is badly optimized for SLI and also a bad PhysX implementation I'm not surprised my GTX 670 SLI setup also plunges under 40FPS.

 

[The_Golden_Man]

I just tried the same spot they did in that video (Caustic Caverns) with everything maxed out in 1920x1200, PhysX High and Vsync disabled. Using my GTX 670 SLI setup.

Lowest I saw was about 38FPS. But it would usually not dip below 40FPS. When little PhysX stuff was going on I was at 60 - 70FPS when outside in that junkyard.

Inside, before opening the gate was at about 80 -100FPS if my memory serves me right.

Edit: Tested this at Medium PhysX and got a healthy FPS boost. inside I had 100 + FPS and outside it stayed between about 50 to 80FPS. 50FPS was about the lowest I saw in intense PhysX battles. It felt laggy, but I'm sure it would feel better with Vsync on and using MSI On-screen display to lock at 60FPS to make it feel even smoother. Strangely when running SLI with Vsync off you need 80FPS + in many games to make it feel smooth.

When falling much below 60FPS it feels like terrible lag, ruining my experience.

So that GTX 660 in the Newegg video was falling down to 30FPS. I'm not that far away for my lowest. My GTX 670 SLI setup should normally destroy that GTX 660, not just by a tiny bit. So no doubt, there are some bad optimization problems going on with this game. By all means... My max FPS will be much higher VS that GTX 660 many places in the game, but what counts the most is the min. FPS. Min. FPS is what can really ruin an otherwise good gaming experience.

Should also note that Caustic Caverns seems to be one of the more demanding spots in the game, with regards to FPS. But I've seen below 40FPS many other places too. When in bossfights or when much PhysX stuff is going on.

Please don't listen to people claiming to have 60FPS + 'butter smooth' FPS all the time in this game, while running PhysX on high (Sure, in maybe 80% of the game there could be 60FPS +, but not in many of those PhysX demanding battles and various spots in the game). They are lying and making other people think they have some problems with their setup/drivers. Only way that is going to happen is to set PhysX to Low, which is turning it off.

 

[Aikouka]

Also, the cards have 30 - 60% GPU utilization in-game when in SLI. The highest GPU utilization is strangely enough on the game menu, where both cards can have over 90% Utilization.. Lol! When these 30 - 40FPS dips occur, the cards are still running very low GPU utilization. So there is no doubt this game is badly optimized.

How is the GPU utilization with SLI disabled? Could it just be a poor SLI profile for Borderlands 2?

Also, I haven't actually tracked my framerate while in the game, but my talk of the game "being smooth" is simply from watching the game and not noticing the terribly jerky framerates. I do own FRAPS, so I'll run a benchmark on the game tonight. I can check Caustic Caverns if you'd like. Hopefully the mobs will be low level so I can just mow through everything quickly, which should be harder on the card (I assume that more "chaos" = more PhysX)

 

[The_Golden_Man]

How is the GPU utilization with SLI disabled? Could it just be a poor SLI profile for Borderlands 2?

Also, I haven't actually tracked my framerate while in the game, but my talk of the game "being smooth" is simply from watching the game and not noticing the terribly jerky framerates. I do own FRAPS, so I'll run a benchmark on the game tonight. I can check Caustic Caverns if you'd like. Hopefully the mobs will be low level so I can just mow through everything quickly, which should be harder on the card (I assume that more "chaos" = more PhysX)

With SLI Disabled the GPU utilization is over 90% if I remember correctly.

I've found the best way for the game to feel smooth for me. I enabled Vsync and capped the FPS at 60FPS (Remember to restart the game when enabling Vsync, or enable it before you start the game. The times I did not, it still felt laggy at 60FPS. Also, if there are screen tearing, try to cap FPS to 60 in-game.). Also sat PhysX to medium. The game feels very smooth when running around doing stuff. Also, it does not feel laggy when falling a bit below 60FPS.

With Vsync disabled I had to obtain at least 80FPS + for det game to feel smooth. Below 60FPS it felt as terrible lag. I think this is related to SLI as I've experienced the same in The Witcher 2.

 

[cytoSiN]

With SLI Disabled the GPU utilization is over 90% if I remember correctly.

I dunno about everyone else, but my GPU usage is close to 100% in just about every game unless I'm in a menu. I WANT this to be the case. Why did I buy a non-reference GPU and OC it if I'm not playing games that use as much of it as possible. That said, VRAM usage shouldn't be maxed out at all times, but that's a different story. As for Vsync, "to vsync or not to vsync" is an age-old question that has spawned many a lengthy thread. Whatever looks better to you, imo.

 

[Corporate Thug]

so is gearbox done w/ golden key codes for the time being?

 

[cytoSiN]

so is gearbox done w/ golden key codes for the time being?

They were fast and furious because they were testing the Shift system. I assume they will continue to release them over time, but not as many in as short an amount of time.

 

[Ferzerp]

How is the GPU utilization with SLI disabled? Could it just be a poor SLI profile for Borderlands 2?

It's more related to CPU bottlenecks than anything else (which also explains the menu thing, that's trivial for the cpu, but without a frame limiter, it is going to use almost 100% gpu).

I have an IB at 4.4Ghz and if I recall correctly, GPU utilization is really quite high at 2560x1600.

I'll check after work.

The individual you're replying to has a 1080p monitor listed in his signature. This resolution with 2x 670's will be CPU limited (and always have low GPU utilization).

 

[Ferzerp]

Just checked. Went to the caustic caverns.

GPU1 range: 65-85%
GPU2 range: 80-98% (this is the physx card)

 

[OCNewbie]

With the Mechromancer, I think you should be able to hit your action skill key and recall Deathrap if he's already out, and recover some of your cooldown, like Axton can do with his turret. Or perhaps toggle him into a passive mode or something.

 

[Childs]

With the Mechromancer, I think you should be able to hit your action skill key and recall Deathrap if he's already out, and recover some of your cooldown, like Axton can do with his turret. Or perhaps toggle him into a passive mode or something.

Yeah, it almost seems like a bug. Deathtrap just looks at you when he has nothing to do. Kinda weird.

 

[Soundmanred]

so is gearbox done w/ golden key codes for the time being?

I gave up on waiting for Golden Keys and I'm done with my first playthrough, so it's trainer time. Unlimited Gold Keys FTW.

 

[Rakewell]

LOL

Last night I reached lvl 50 and met up with some guys who apparently thought it was December 25.

They "duped" all their weapons and shields for me and a buddy of mine, so apparently I now have like 30 orange weapons.

 

[The_Golden_Man]

Just checked. Went to the caustic caverns.

GPU1 range: 65-85%
GPU2 range: 80-98% (this is the physx card)

And what FPS did you get? Lowest FPS?

By the way my monitor is 1920x1200 and not 1920x1080.

 

[Ferzerp]

I didn't test it then but I have before with 5 minute crazy gunzerking runs making as much physx as possible.

Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg
21803, 300000, 43, 126, 72.677


The first section is running around in the green goop shooting weapons that leave goop piles in to Crystalisks (the worst scenario that I know of so far in this game). The spike is where I die, and then I turn the spiderant direction instead (who also make lots of particles and piles of goo)

 

[The_Golden_Man]

I didn't test it then but I have before with 5 minute crazy gunzerking runs making as much physx as possible.

Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg
21803, 300000, 43, 126, 72.677


The first section is running around in the green goop shooting weapons that leave goop piles in to Crystalisks (the worst scenario that I know of so far in this game). The spike is where I die, and then I turn the spiderant direction instead (who also make lots of particles and piles of goo)

Could you try the same run with PhysX at Medium? BTW, you have GTX 680 SLI?

 

[The_Golden_Man]

Really, PhysX is much hype.. Some of the effects in Borderlands 2 is cool enough. Like particle effects and flags in the wind. However, the water PhysX effects looks like some kind of goop. Looks terrible.

Honestly, when I play this game I don't really notice PhysX as I'm bussy playing with all the action going on. So I'm pretty sure if I turned PhysX off it would have little to no impact on my gaming experience.

I don't think people with AMD cards are missing much with no PhysX. I know they can use CPU for PhysX in this game at the cost of performance (Anyway, performance is shit even with a dedicated Nvidia PhysX card due to poorly implemented PhysX. By shit I mean dipping way below 60FPS even with high end SLI systems), but if not, I actually don't think they are missing anything important.

 

[bguile]

Really, PhysX is much hype.. Some of the effects in Borderlands 2 is cool enough. Like particle effects and flags in the wind. However, the water PhysX effects looks like some kind of goop. Looks terrible.

Honestly, when I play this game I don't really notice PhysX as I'm bussy playing with all the action going on. So I'm pretty sure if I turned PhysX off it would have little to no impact on my gaming experience.

I don't think people with AMD cards are missing much with no PhysX. I know they can use CPU for PhysX in this game at the cost of performance (Anyway, performance is shit even with a dedicated Nvidia PhysX card due to poorly implemented PhysX. By shit I mean dipping way below 60FPS even with high end SLI systems), but if not, I actually don't think they are missing anything important.

I've been thinking of getting a 7950 or 660ti, but I suspect I maybe be better off with a 7950, and then adding a 650 if I wanted the physx effects. I haven't seen anyone test that yet.

One thing I don't like about physx in this game is that you can only set it to low, medium or high. It'd be nice if you could tweak the settings some more for various effects. Like low/none on water effects, heavy on cloth, and say medium on particles.

 

[The_Golden_Man]

I've been thinking of getting a 7950 or 660ti, but I suspect I maybe be better off with a 7950, and then adding a 650 if I wanted the physx effects. I haven't seen anyone test that yet.

One thing I don't like about physx in this game is that you can only set it to low, medium or high. It'd be nice if you could tweak the settings some more for various effects. Like low/none on water effects, heavy on cloth, and say medium on particles.

I would suggest getting a 7950 custom edition and overclock it. Don't bother getting a GTX 650 for PhysX. You will plunge way below 60FPS not matter what PhysX setup you have. And the effects is not worth it at all. You don't notice them when you are bussy playing anyway.

I run GTX 670 SLI, second card also handles PhysX. Even with PhysX on medium I can plunge down to 40FPS in some areas, when there are much PhysX going on.

There was rumors that Gearbox is working on a performance patch. If that is the case, and this patch will improve PhysX performance so one don't fall below 60FPS that would be fine. But in the meantime one could just as well set PhysX to Low (Which is disabled). Better to have constant 60FPS VS Shitty PhysX effects and ruining gameplay because of 30 - 45FPS when much PhysX is going on.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Well, finished with Dishonored, and giving Gaige a whirl.

She's comically overpowered.

 

[The_Golden_Man]

Well, finished with Dishonored, and giving Gaige a whirl.

She's comically overpowered.

How was Dishonored?

I've clocked in about 78 hours in Borderlands 2 according to Steam. My first character was the Gunzerker. I played him up to about Level 25 with 3 other friends in Co-op. This was 23 - 24 hours.

Rest I've played using the Commando in Singleplayer. Level 31 now. Have taken most of the sidequests until now, and have a couple of more missions of the Mainquest left.

What a great game... This game is just as fun in singleplayer as it is co-op, for me.

 

[OCNewbie]

Well, finished with Dishonored, and giving Gaige a whirl.

She's comically overpowered.

I have a lvl 14 or 15 Gaige now, and yes, she is overpowered compared to the other classes (I've tried the other 4 from anywhere between 11 and 32). Most of the time, even without the robot, I destroy stuff, thanks to a sniper rifle and Anarchy. Add in the robot, and it's even more nutso. Blood Soaked Shields is ridiculous. With 5/5 skill points in it, you get FULL shields each time you kill an enemy, and you pay for it with 5% life loss (big deal). With Discord, which you will unlock at lvl 16, you regen 3% health per second, which effectively negates any worries with hp loss with BSS.

Edit: For some reason, the official skill tree calculator page for the Mechromancer, on the BL2 website, shows Blood Soaked Shields only allowing 1 point into it, but it actually goes up to 5/5. You gain 20% shields, and lose 1% health when you kill an enemy, per skill level.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

How was Dishonored?

I've clocked in about 78 hours in Borderlands 2 according to Steam. My first character was the Gunzerker. I played him up to about Level 25 with 3 other friends in Co-op. This was 23 - 24 hours.

Rest I've played using the Commando in Singleplayer. Level 31 now. Have taken most of the sidequests until now, and have a couple of more missions of the Mainquest left.

What a great game... This game is just as fun in singleplayer as it is co-op, for me.

Dishonored was lots of fun. A little bit easy for my tastes, and the old thief vets I know basically has to self limit to have any challenge at all. Beautiful world though, if more then a little disturbing.




I'll have to try out blood soaked shields. Sounds like it's just begging for one of those turtle shields.

Anarchy is lolwut powerful. The huge accuracy penalty would have balanced it out if there weren't so many ways to get around it. The stabilizers on a hyperion weapon will cancel it out largely, and then you have close enough, which defines nearby enemies as "On the same map as you". Can clear out entire rooms with Anarchy/Close Enough just by aiming at the ceiling and shooting as fast as possible. That even before the +250 anarchy stacks, or a +4 Close Enough Mod.

She gets a Maggie, she's gonna end up unstoppable, killing lightning fast because you don't have to waste time aiming.

 

[OCNewbie]

Anarchy is lolwut powerful. The huge accuracy penalty would have balanced it out if there weren't so many ways to get around it. The stabilizers on a hyperion weapon will cancel it out largely, and then you have close enough, which defines nearby enemies as "On the same map as you". Can clear out entire rooms with Anarchy/Close Enough just by aiming at the ceiling and shooting as fast as possible.

I hadn't really considered how the -accuracy penalty of high levels of Anarchy can largely be negated by the Close Enough skill.

 

[Aikouka]

The stabilizers on a hyperion weapon will cancel it out largely

Hmm and here I always used to sell those by default. I hated how bad their sway was once you aimed down the sights.