Bonds caught with Amphetamines....

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: hungfarover

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
listen knee jerkers There are amphetamines in many things.....him testing positive once is not guilt that he was a consistent abuser.

yeah why would anyone assume that someone who's head grew 3 sizes and gained 40 pounds of solid muscle in his mid 30's was abusing any drugs at all, steroids or otherwise.

this positive test is obviously an anomaly. :roll:

Ever take a class in logic?

he doesn't need one. his post is very logical.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: JDMnAR1

Originally posted by: moshquerade
he is such a disgrace to his father and godfather.

Fixed.

:thumbsup:
the list goes on and on actually.

 

[JDMnAR1]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: JDMnAR1

Originally posted by: moshquerade
he is such a disgrace to his father and godfather.

Fixed.

:thumbsup:
the list goes on and on actually.

Agreed, but those two are the most immediate and obvious.

 

[Lepard]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Lepard

Different circumstances for Rose. I do however, agree that he should be in the Hall of Fame. Same with Bonds. McGwire not so much. But, again Bonds was a Hall of Famer before the 2001 season.

Correct me if I am wrong (got this from a friend). Essentially Baseball was going to get taken down as a monopoly by the government because of the gambling and such. Essentially they were told to either take a hard-line anti-gambling stance, or get busted. The owners ran scared because they didn't want to lose the revenue, thus they agreed to become gambling nazis.

Rose came in after that and gambled on other games, ones he couldn't fundamentally change. Thus, his activities were no worse than any normal citizens. However, owners, fearing the government response and busting of their monopoly decided to make an example of Rose, effectively saying that nobody, not even a sure-shot HoF'er was safe.

It wasn't about the sanctity of the game, or the pureness of competition, it was about money and they smacked somebody so they could stay rich.

Now, in the last decade, people want to see HRs, so players juiced, attendance went up, owners were happy and revenue flowed in, thus nobody said anything. They instituted more policies after the hey-day and when the government started warning them again, but not a second before. Now that players are caught, they do nothing, because they still make money off of the "big guns".

While the two events are difference circumstances, one definitely harms the game more than another (especially on the player level, where Rose did nothing that bad, while bonds and such effectively cheated the game). It's a level of hypocracy only rivaled by our government.

And this is why I think both Rose and Bonds belong in the Hall.

McGwire was a great home run hitter and OPS guy, however, his other numbers do not match up. Although Reggie Jackson's numbers look similar.

Fingolfin269, you are absolutely correct. Now everyone wants to say "Oh so and so did steroids", but when it was going on, they were right there cheering it on.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Lepard

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Lepard

Different circumstances for Rose. I do however, agree that he should be in the Hall of Fame. Same with Bonds. McGwire not so much. But, again Bonds was a Hall of Famer before the 2001 season.

Correct me if I am wrong (got this from a friend). Essentially Baseball was going to get taken down as a monopoly by the government because of the gambling and such. Essentially they were told to either take a hard-line anti-gambling stance, or get busted. The owners ran scared because they didn't want to lose the revenue, thus they agreed to become gambling nazis.

Rose came in after that and gambled on other games, ones he couldn't fundamentally change. Thus, his activities were no worse than any normal citizens. However, owners, fearing the government response and busting of their monopoly decided to make an example of Rose, effectively saying that nobody, not even a sure-shot HoF'er was safe.

It wasn't about the sanctity of the game, or the pureness of competition, it was about money and they smacked somebody so they could stay rich.

Now, in the last decade, people want to see HRs, so players juiced, attendance went up, owners were happy and revenue flowed in, thus nobody said anything. They instituted more policies after the hey-day and when the government started warning them again, but not a second before. Now that players are caught, they do nothing, because they still make money off of the "big guns".

While the two events are difference circumstances, one definitely harms the game more than another (especially on the player level, where Rose did nothing that bad, while bonds and such effectively cheated the game). It's a level of hypocracy only rivaled by our government.

And this is why I think both Rose and Bonds belong in the Hall.

McGwire was a great home run hitter and OPS guy, however, his other numbers do not match up. Although Reggie Jackson's numbers look similar.

Fingolfin269, you are absolutely correct. Now everyone wants to say "Oh so and so did steroids", but when it was going on, they were right there cheering it on.

The flip side is that if Rose doesn't get in, then no roids freak should either

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I am about 99.99% certain that Bonds took steroids. I just have a problem with everyone whining about Bonds when it's obvious the usage goes well beyond him. He's a target/scapegoat and allows you all to remain blinded to the fact that the entire sport was/is plagued with this stuff for the last 10+ years. But keep on whining about Barry, and only Barry, if it makes you feel like taking him down will make the sport a-okay again.

I think all of the criticism of Bonds, especially with regard to his position on the all time home run list, brings a lot more attention to the problem and gives the league a lot more incentive to do something about it. The outrage is proof that people don't want steroids in baseball, and want the league to work harder to rid the league of cheaters.

As for Pete Rose - he deserves to be banned from baseball for life, but I don't believe he deserves to be banned from the Hall of Fame for life.

 

[SVT Cobra]

I am pretty sure pseudoephedrine is not tested. Ephedra yes.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Enlighten me. So you are saying it is common procedure for everyone to get passed over the first time?

You think McGuire will be in the next time his name comes up?

Unless you're a stud (Ripken, Gwynn, Brett, Aaron, etc) you have a very slim chance of getting in the first time.

Hopefully Mac never gets in and it sets a precedent for all others. The problem with Bonds is that he was a HoF before the juice. With Mac, he didn't exactly have stellar career numbers besides a few categories (which were definitely inflated because of his supposed juicing years). It's going to be an issue of whether or not the drug use was enough of an issue to keep him (Bonds) out.

I never understood the whole "you're a HOFer, but not a first ballot HOFer" mentality that I think some voters have. But they do. Look at Ryne Sandberg (23, part of my username) - you're going to be hard-pressed to find any player who put forth more effort and be dedicated to the game as Sandberg was. Oh, and by the way he is a terrific defensive player holds the record for most consecutive errorless games by a 2B. Oh, and on top of that, before the steroids era kicked in, Sandberg held the record for most homeruns by a 2B in the history of the game. And he's helped develop players at the Cubs spring training ever since retirement - and he's starting his managerial career this year managing a Cubs minor league team.

Yet Sandberg was not a first ballot HOFer, took him 3 ballots before getting in.

Oh, and also during Sandberg's induction speech he blasted the current players who only care about hitting home runs and not about the rest of the game. "These guys sitting up here did not pave the way for the rest of us so that players could swing for the fences every time up and forget how to move a runner over to third, it's disrespectful to them, to you, and to the game of baseball that we all played growing up."

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Enlighten me. So you are saying it is common procedure for everyone to get passed over the first time?

You think McGuire will be in the next time his name comes up?

Unless you're a stud (Ripken, Gwynn, Brett, Aaron, etc) you have a very slim chance of getting in the first time.

Hopefully Mac never gets in and it sets a precedent for all others. The problem with Bonds is that he was a HoF before the juice. With Mac, he didn't exactly have stellar career numbers besides a few categories (which were definitely inflated because of his supposed juicing years). It's going to be an issue of whether or not the drug use was enough of an issue to keep him (Bonds) out.

I never understood the whole "you're a HOFer, but not a first ballot HOFer" mentality that I think some voters have. But they do. Look at Ryne Sandberg (23, part of my username) - you're going to be hard-pressed to find any player who put forth more effort and be dedicated to the game as Sandberg was. Oh, and by the way he is a terrific defensive player holds the record for most consecutive errorless games by a 2B. Oh, and on top of that, before the steroids era kicked in, Sandberg held the record for most homeruns by a 2B in the history of the game. And he's helped develop players at the Cubs spring training ever since retirement - and he's starting his managerial career this year managing a Cubs minor league team.

Yet Sandberg was not a first ballot HOFer, took him 3 ballots before getting in.

Oh, and also during Sandberg's induction speech he blasted the current players who only care about hitting home runs and not about the rest of the game. "These guys sitting up here did not pave the way for the rest of us so that players could swing for the fences every time up and forget how to move a runner over to third, it's disrespectful to them, to you, and to the game of baseball that we all played growing up."

yeap Sandberg was great. you are right. before the steriod era he was great. 20/20 hitter was considered one of the elite of the game. now? pfft.

 

[Lepard]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Enlighten me. So you are saying it is common procedure for everyone to get passed over the first time?

You think McGuire will be in the next time his name comes up?

Unless you're a stud (Ripken, Gwynn, Brett, Aaron, etc) you have a very slim chance of getting in the first time.

Hopefully Mac never gets in and it sets a precedent for all others. The problem with Bonds is that he was a HoF before the juice. With Mac, he didn't exactly have stellar career numbers besides a few categories (which were definitely inflated because of his supposed juicing years). It's going to be an issue of whether or not the drug use was enough of an issue to keep him (Bonds) out.

I never understood the whole "you're a HOFer, but not a first ballot HOFer" mentality that I think some voters have. But they do. Look at Ryne Sandberg (23, part of my username) - you're going to be hard-pressed to find any player who put forth more effort and be dedicated to the game as Sandberg was. Oh, and by the way he is a terrific defensive player holds the record for most consecutive errorless games by a 2B. Oh, and on top of that, before the steroids era kicked in, Sandberg held the record for most homeruns by a 2B in the history of the game. And he's helped develop players at the Cubs spring training ever since retirement - and he's starting his managerial career this year managing a Cubs minor league team.

Yet Sandberg was not a first ballot HOFer, took him 3 ballots before getting in.

Oh, and also during Sandberg's induction speech he blasted the current players who only care about hitting home runs and not about the rest of the game. "These guys sitting up here did not pave the way for the rest of us so that players could swing for the fences every time up and forget how to move a runner over to third, it's disrespectful to them, to you, and to the game of baseball that we all played growing up."

I disagree. If you are Hall of Famer, if it takes you 10 chances you are still a HOF, it does not diminish your accomplishments.

However, I do disagree with Sandberg in regards to how players play. If you are a singles hitter, like David Eckstein, you do not need to be up there hitting home runs. However, if you are home run hitter like McGwire, don't go up there thinking bunt.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra
I am pretty sure pseudoephedrine is not tested. Ephedra yes.

Ephedra is the 'natural' whatever....

just like poppy seeds can make you fail for opium though; I don't think Bonds is totally clean, but the majority of the US doesn't want clean players whether they know it or not.