Boehner proposes leaving 52 Million Americans without insurance.

[Zorkorist]

nevermind

 

[dawp]

one last thing then that is all.

It's a legal definition, not a law. Name one state that has an anti malpractice law on the books.

here's a link for texas since that is where this happened. Side note, he got his settlement before texas limited the awards.

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/malpractice_by_state/Texas.html

and no, limiting the awards did not lower insurance rates in texas.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Absolutely not. You made the choice to go into surgery with these people. They tried to help you, and made a mistake.

Any blame is yours for picking them in the first place.

-John

Look I'm all for personal responsibility, but you can't place the entire burden on a non-expert when a so called expert made the mistake.

 

[BoberFett]

So you're basically talking about universal health care.

You think government cares about people? Sucker.

 

[Patranus]

Ok, lets not forget the 50 million people that Obamacare will leave without insurance.....

 

[MrX8503]

Zork is posting in here, be prepared to have this thread balloon to another 20 pages.

 

[ShawnD1]

You think government cares about people? Sucker.

In some countries, the government is actually afraid of being thrown out of office. That's what makes the US such a unique place. Your politicians seem to like doing things that are extremely unpopular (obamacare, gun ban, war in iraq) and still get elected again.

Remember that 2004 election where there was no way Bush would get elected a second time? Well he was elected a second time. The lesson learned is that they don't need to worry about being voted out and they can basically do anything they want.

 

[dawp]

You think government cares about people? Sucker.

you're a twit. where in any of my posts did i say that.

 

[Acanthus]

Ok, lets not forget the 50 million people that Obamacare will leave without insurance.....

Wat.

 

[blackangst1]

In some countries, the government is actually afraid of being thrown out of office. That's what makes the US such a unique place. Your politicians seem to like doing things that are extremely unpopular (obamacare, gun ban, war in iraq) and still get elected again.

Remember that 2004 election where there was no way Bush would get elected a second time? Well he was elected a second time. The lesson learned is that they don't need to worry about being voted out and they can basically do anything they want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E719n4bz_4

 

[BoberFett]

you're a twit. where in any of my posts did i say that.

It simply needs people that care about other people.

Like that's gonna happen with insurance companies.

If you're not suggesting that government cares, then what is this little tantrum of yours about? Who do believe cares about other people?

 

[dawp]

unless our government drastically changes, they will only screw it up. and if you think our current system is so good, you know nothing. I think our whole system is hosed (not just our health care system) and not enough people care enough to fix it.

edit:

Sometimes I think the only way to fix it is to destroy Washington and start from scratch.

 

[Nebor]

lol no. Companies get raped on damn near everything. My $10,000 desk and $80 plastic trash bin are just two examples. My chair at work cost roughly $1000 even though it's really just a $200 chair from Staples. They also buy those stupid expensive Intel Xeon workstation computers. It's not faster than a regular i7; it just costs twice as much for no reason.

A couple weeks ago I had to print out a bunch of pdf files that were a few thousand pages combined. My boss told me to put the files on a USB stick and take it to the UPS store across the street. Why? Because having them print it and deliver it to our office cost less than using our office printer. The price of office supplies for corporations is unbelievable. A $5 stack of computer paper is suddenly $15. A $2 gel pen is $5.

When you hear about stupid shit like $100 military haircuts, try to keep in mind those are corporate prices. Products that cost $10 at Staples or services that are $15 at Supercuts will cost $100 when it's a corporation of government paying for it. Individual consumers care a lot about prices, but people signing things don't really give a fuck. Last week I ordered a $200 piece of software at work to help me print documents easier, and not a single person asked why I wanted that software or if it would help with productivity.

Well, there are successful corporations and then there are corporations that develop a culture of excess and wastefulness during good times, and crumble during hard times. I work for a major corporation, and costs are aggressively controlled. Those measures helped to bring my company back from the brink, and made my stock options worth something.

And that's the crux of the matter: Corporations are subject to oversight by their shareholders. Those shareholders shouldn't tolerate $10,000 desks. The military doesn't really have the oversight. They have your elected officials, who really don't care how much things cost.

 

[BoberFett]

unless our government drastically changes, they will only screw it up. and if you think our current system is so good, you know nothing. I think our whole system is hosed (not just our health care system) and not enough people care enough to fix it.

edit:

Sometimes I think the only way to fix it is to destroy Washington and start from scratch.

Well then you and I are more in agreement than I realized.

Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

 

[lothar]

Sen0r Obama will have given them free citizenship and social security numbers so the ones who don't pay insurance go to jail for 30 years where they get raped by black people


ok half joking. The idea is that right now you COULD theoretically show up with no ID then just skip out on the bill. You could do that even though you really are an American citizen with a full time legit job. By forcing people to pay for insurance, there's no getting out of it. You pay some amount of money into The Machine no matter what.

How will you force illegal Mexicans who walk into the ER to pay for health insurance?
Do you they file their taxes at the end of the year to the IRS?

 

[lothar]

It's more than 2% but it's not as high as private insurance.

... But that's not really the point. I asked what could be done to reduce private health insurer's administrative costs. The gist of what he posted is that their administrative costs are ok; that there's not much that can be done.

Bullsh!t, I say. Inter-state competition, tort reform, and other efficiencies can bring those costs down.

So why didn't Democrats incorporate those ideas in their health care bill?
Giving people the option to buy insurance from out of state was a Republican idea...not included in Obama care.
Tort reform is a Republican idea...not included in Obama care.

 

[dawp]

How will you force illegal Mexicans who walk into the ER to pay for health insurance?
Do you they file their taxes at the end of the year to the IRS?

umm, a lot of illegals do pay income taxes but because they're illegal, they can't file. so if they would be due a refund they can't get it.

of course, quite a few are paid under the table. a lot of people are paid that way too, both citizens and legal immigrants. and not all illegals are mexican. some are even from europe.

 

[lothar]

Thank you, and I wasn't saying it wasn't worth 250k, I was stating how much it cost 15 years ago, who knows what it costs today? And it wouldn't be government run health care, it'd be insurance companies, if I remember right, and I wouldn't be shunned for having a pre-existing condition.

The inept folks who rubber stamp 'yes' or 'no' are in the insurance offices as well. If healthcare was universal in 1995, my trouble getting help to pay for this would have been a non-issue, correct?

1.) False. Just because it's "universal" doesn't mean every surgical operation, procedure, or medication is automatically covered. Politicians would be the one deciding your fate, not health care professionals. I'm not understanding how people are automatically assuming how everything under the sun will be covered due to the removal of the "pre-existing condition" clause.
2.) You might be on a longer waiting list.

 

[lothar]

umm, a lot of illegals do pay income taxes but because they're illegal, they can't file. so if they would be due a refund they can't get it.

of course, quite a few are paid under the table.

The first question still wasn't answered...
How will you force illegal Mexicans who walk into the ER to pay for health insurance?

The IRS is the one enforcing that mandate, so if illegals don't file taxes in the first place, they won't get charged any health insurance penalty assessment fee.

 

[lothar]

If you believe that everyone paying for treating the uninsured at the ER is cheaper than having them go to a doctor and paying as much as they can afford for their insurance, you probably bought some AZ ocean front property already.

Yes, making everyone go to their doc for a checkup is clearly the solution(who will also bill the patient's insurance $200+ for that single office visit along with diagnosis) when all they have is a headache, cold, allergy, or vaginal yeast infection that could easily be self diagnosed by the patient would save health care costs.

For me to use my FSA on Tylenol, Advil, Claritin, Humulin insulin, or any OTC medication, I now have to visit a doc to write me a prescription for me to claim re-imbursement?
Rubbish.

 

[her209]

So why didn't Democrats incorporate those ideas in their health care bill?
Giving people the option to buy insurance from out of state was a Republican idea...not included in Obama care.
Tort reform is a Republican idea...not included in Obama care.

Obama signaled he was open to allowing buy/selling insurance across state lines, but he wanted a minimum level of coverage so you wouldn't have a "race to the bottom" type scenario.

As for tort reform, this was discussed ad nauseam during the debate. The savings were something like 54 billion over 10 years.

 

[xj0hnx]

As in any transaction, you go to see a Doctor, he tries to help.

He didn't ask for you to come to him... you came to him, you and he were in a mutual agreement.

If he fucks up, suck it up.

-John

Um ...no. If a doctor performs a procedure they are not properly trained to do you might as well as have had the plumber do it. Just "being a doctor" doesn't automatically qualify them to perform surgery, and if they perform a surgery they aren't qualified for then they are at fault.

 

[charrison]

Obama signaled he was open to allowing buy/selling insurance across state lines, but he wanted a minimum level of coverage so you wouldn't have a "race to the bottom" type scenario.

Seems to me that is what people want, coverage that costs less. People should be free to pick the level of coverage that fits them whether it be a Cadillac plan or a high deductible plan.

As for tort reform, this was discussed ad nauseam during the debate. The savings were something like 54 billion over 10 years.

It is another avenue of cost saving that does exist and was completely ignored.

 

[theeedude]

Yes, making everyone go to their doc for a checkup is clearly the solution(who will also bill the patient's insurance $200+ for that single office visit along with diagnosis) when all they have is a headache, cold, allergy, or vaginal yeast infection that could easily be self diagnosed by the patient would save health care costs.

For me to use my FSA on Tylenol, Advil, Claritin, Humulin insulin, or any OTC medication, I now have to visit a doc to write me a prescription for me to claim re-imbursement?
Rubbish.

Does everyone with health insurance now go to doctor for headache, cold, or allergy? I don't think there is a danger of that happening. But we don't want for people to wait till it's life threatening emergency to go to ER and saddle everyone else with their enormous unpaid bill and possible future disability benefits either. It's not rocket surgery, other countries have figured it out.

 

[JSt0rm]

Does everyone with health insurance now go to doctor for headache, cold, or allergy? I don't think there is a danger of that happening. But we don't want for people to wait till it's life threatening emergency to go to ER and saddle everyone else with their enormous unpaid bill and possible future disability benefits either. It's not rocket surgery, other countries have figured it out.

Clealry Lothar wants to ration care. Welcome to the neocon mind.