BMW meet canyon run accident, 1 dead

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I love it. You're actually going to argue with me that a truck (which by your own admission you don't know if it is stock or not) is faster than a stock M3?

I found actual road tests for stock production vehicles. You are comparing apples to oranges.

The M3 is a very refined road racer. You could literally race it all day and then drive in home on the same tires. Try wrestling a big hunk of metal like the Lightning around a road race facility for an hour and tell me you wouldn't have to replace the tires. Ooops, there going $1000 worth of rubber.

I'm not eating anything. M3 is a far superior vehicle.

If anything I would expect people to OVERSTATE their mods, not understate them. They have absolutely nothing to gain by saying it's stock.

I'm not saying one vehicle is superior to another, but the L is the better performer.

The links I have posted contain track times with listed mods (including quite a few stock trucks), and autocross times compared with what you might consider to be "real" performance vehicles.

Read some real world numbers before you start dry humping tail pipes, your precious M3 is a damn nice car but there are hundreds of trucks on the road that are faster.

Viper GTS

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Rainsford
What is so difficult about the concept that roads are for driving from place to place? They are not your own personal playground. If you really want to "race", go to a track, if they have them in the middle of nowhere in Iowa, they have them where you live.

Also, the Lightning is fast, no question. But no matter how much they modify it, it's still a truck and will never handle as well as a performance car. Of course most people seem to think racing consists of going fast in a straight line, so I guess it's perfect for them.

I HATE TO BREAK OUT THE CAPS BUT IS ANYBODY READING THE GODDAMN LINKS I'M POSTING?

GO CHECK THE FREAKING AUTO-X FORUM ON NLOC, SINCE YOU PROBABLY THINK AUTO-X = REAL RACING.

Christ almighty, admit it! The L is a very capable performance vehicle, in every sense of the word.

Viper GTS

Wasn't there a old minivan doing 10s a while back? I can't seem to find the link, but I distinctly remember a guy who put a lot of work into the minivan and was smoking everyone at the drags.

That said, a minivan is a potentially capable performance vehicle. That said, there are much better platforms, and I believe that's everyone elses point.

If the L was only fast in a straight line (as has been alleged in this thread) I wouldn't be arguing this. That minivan, while impressive in it's own right, was built for one purpose & one purpose only - To be ungodly fast on the drag strip.

Viper GTS

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Rainsford
What is so difficult about the concept that roads are for driving from place to place? They are not your own personal playground. If you really want to "race", go to a track, if they have them in the middle of nowhere in Iowa, they have them where you live.

Also, the Lightning is fast, no question. But no matter how much they modify it, it's still a truck and will never handle as well as a performance car. Of course most people seem to think racing consists of going fast in a straight line, so I guess it's perfect for them.

I HATE TO BREAK OUT THE CAPS BUT IS ANYBODY READING THE GODDAMN LINKS I'M POSTING?

GO CHECK THE FREAKING AUTO-X FORUM ON NLOC, SINCE YOU PROBABLY THINK AUTO-X = REAL RACING.

Christ almighty, admit it! The L is a very capable performance vehicle, in every sense of the word.

Viper GTS

Wasn't there a old minivan doing 10s a while back? I can't seem to find the link, but I distinctly remember a guy who put a lot of work into the minivan and was smoking everyone at the drags.

That said, a minivan is a potentially capable performance vehicle. That said, there are much better platforms, and I believe that's everyone elses point.

Descartes - I'll fully agree that there are better platforms and the M3 is a better all around car. I never disputed that. The L is capable of hanging right with it though. What's going on is people saying the L sucks cause it's a truck, and they hate it cause it's a truck, and this and that. These people never actually driven one 1st hand and just hate it cause it's a truck. It's being close minded and uneducated. It started by people saying "your ride sucks". They're not debating which platform is better The L is an freaking awesome truck for what it is.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
your precious M3 is a damn nice car but there are hundreds of trucks on the road that are faster.

Viper GTS

faster in a straight line or faster thru hairpin turns and whatnot. that is what matters.
also, the point is that the M3 is a damn beautiful car. The truck is not. why would you buy the truck when for 30K you can buy a 350Z (not as good a performer, but looks a lot better). unless you are a real big fan of trucks, im sure you would pick the 350Z
if i was driving a 350Z and some truck owned me, i still wouldnt have any respect for that person cuz he is racing a TRUCK

 

[maziwanka]

the L is a wicked pickup and with mods can be VERY fast - faster than a stock e46 m3. of course you could mod the m3 and make that fast too, but viper was just pointing out that the L is a great performance truck and can be made very fast cheaply (hence better performer).

the m3 is beautiful and indeed ppl buy the L and the m3 for different reasons.

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
your precious M3 is a damn nice car but there are hundreds of trucks on the road that are faster.

Viper GTS

faster in a straight line or faster thru hairpin turns and whatnot. that is what matters.
also, the point is that the M3 is a damn beautiful car. The truck is not. why would you buy the truck when for 30K you can buy a 350Z (not as good a performer, but looks a lot better). unless you are a real big fan of trucks, im sure you would pick the 350Z
if i was driving a 350Z and some truck owned me, i still wouldnt have any respect for that person cuz he is racing a TRUCK

crappiest.argument.ever.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: maziwanka
the L is a wicked pickup and with mods can be VERY fast - faster than a stock e46 m3. of course you could mod the m3 and make that fast too, but viper was just pointing out that the L is a great performance truck and can be made very fast cheaply (hence better performer).

the m3 is beautiful and indeed ppl buy the L and the m3 for different reasons.

shut up ronnie. i have more posts than u. im superior

heh. jk

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
your precious M3 is a damn nice car but there are hundreds of trucks on the road that are faster.

Viper GTS

faster in a straight line or faster thru hairpin turns and whatnot. that is what matters.
also, the point is that the M3 is a damn beautiful car. The truck is not. why would you buy the truck when for 30K you can buy a 350Z (not as good a performer, but looks a lot better). unless you are a real big fan of trucks, im sure you would pick the 350Z
if i was driving a 350Z and some truck owned me, i still wouldnt have any respect for that person cuz he is racing a TRUCK

I would put money on the stock L being equal or faster all around. With mods, faster all around.

Looks are subjective, I like the M3 but the L gives me wood too.

if i was driving a 350Z and some truck owned me, i still wouldnt have any respect for that person cuz he is racing a TRUCK

And there's the real issue here.

Viper GTS

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
your precious M3 is a damn nice car but there are hundreds of trucks on the road that are faster.

Viper GTS

faster in a straight line or faster thru hairpin turns and whatnot. that is what matters.
also, the point is that the M3 is a damn beautiful car. The truck is not. why would you buy the truck when for 30K you can buy a 350Z (not as good a performer, but looks a lot better). unless you are a real big fan of trucks, im sure you would pick the 350Z
if i was driving a 350Z and some truck owned me, i still wouldnt have any respect for that person cuz he is racing a TRUCK

Yeah but everyone else is going to be laughing at you because you just lost to a truck in your precious little car

It's not for everyone. You have to know how to appreciate it. It's nice knowing you have the fastest production truck on the planet. Being able to hang with corvettes while still being able to move a washer and dryer in the back.

 

[Aharami]

NeuroSynapsis: so you would pick the L over a M3? or a 350Z?

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
your precious M3 is a damn nice car but there are hundreds of trucks on the road that are faster.

Viper GTS

faster in a straight line or faster thru hairpin turns and whatnot. that is what matters.
also, the point is that the M3 is a damn beautiful car. The truck is not. why would you buy the truck when for 30K you can buy a 350Z (not as good a performer, but looks a lot better). unless you are a real big fan of trucks, im sure you would pick the 350Z
if i was driving a 350Z and some truck owned me, i still wouldnt have any respect for that person cuz he is racing a TRUCK

I would put money on the stock L being equal or faster all around. With mods, faster all around.

Looks are subjective, I like the M3 but the L gives me wood too.

if i was driving a 350Z and some truck owned me, i still wouldnt have any respect for that person cuz he is racing a TRUCK

And there's the real issue here.

Viper GTS

It really is the issue I think. How many people building a race car start with a truck platform? The L is a fantastic truck, but it's still a truck trying to compensate for the fact that it's a truck. There are superior platform choices if you're going to build a performance vehicle. I believe that's the point. I don't see anyone knocking the L at all; rather, people are saying that a truck is not an innate performance platform.

Also, I could put an ATI Procharger into a Z for < $5k that would put it up to 375+rwhp/325+torque.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
your precious M3 is a damn nice car but there are hundreds of trucks on the road that are faster.

Viper GTS

faster in a straight line or faster thru hairpin turns and whatnot. that is what matters.
also, the point is that the M3 is a damn beautiful car. The truck is not. why would you buy the truck when for 30K you can buy a 350Z (not as good a performer, but looks a lot better). unless you are a real big fan of trucks, im sure you would pick the 350Z
if i was driving a 350Z and some truck owned me, i still wouldnt have any respect for that person cuz he is racing a TRUCK

Yeah but everyone else is going to be laughing at you because you just lost to a truck in your precious little car

It's not for everyone. You have to know how to appreciate it. It's nice knowing you have the fastest production truck on the planet. Being able to hang with corvettes while still being able to move a washer and dryer in the back.

On that note I can definitely agree with you.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Yeah but everyone else is going to be laughing at you because you just lost to a truck in your precious little car

well i wouldnt be racing my car in the streets. also, the L, the m3, the 350...all would own my car
i guess to each his own

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: Aharami
NeuroSynapsis: so you would pick the L over a M3? or a 350Z?

Here's your next problem. A 30k L can hang with a 50k M3. The M3 is nearly double the price of the L. You're talking about two different classes of vehicle.

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: Aharami
NeuroSynapsis: so you would pick the L over a M3? or a 350Z?

definately not oever the m3, maybe over the 350z, but that isn't the issue here now is it

if you drove an m3/350z/wahtever and got owned by a lightning you better damn well respect it

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: Aharami
NeuroSynapsis: so you would pick the L over a M3? or a 350Z?

Here's your next problem. A 30k L can hang with a 50k M3. The M3 is nearly double the price of the L. You're talking about two different classes of vehicle.

ok sure. but the question is...when it came down to it, would you really pick the L over a car with a racing chasis?

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Aharami
NeuroSynapsis: so you would pick the L over a M3? or a 350Z?

I'd take the L over the Z in a heartbeat, the M is obviously more of a luxury vehicle so can't be fairly compared. I can say that at that price point I wouldn't buy an M3.

Nice cars though.

Viper GTS

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: Aharami
NeuroSynapsis: so you would pick the L over a M3? or a 350Z?

Here's your next problem. A 30k L can hang with a 50k M3. The M3 is nearly double the price of the L. You're talking about two different classes of vehicle.

ok sure. but the question is...when it came down to it, would you really pick the L over a car with a racing chasis?

That "racing chassis" must not be doing it much good, considering the L can best it.

Then again, is the M3's chassis really any different than the regular 3 series it's based on?

I doubt it.

Viper GTS

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: Aharami
NeuroSynapsis: so you would pick the L over a M3? or a 350Z?

Here's your next problem. A 30k L can hang with a 50k M3. The M3 is nearly double the price of the L. You're talking about two different classes of vehicle.

ok sure. but the question is...when it came down to it, would you really pick the L over a car with a racing chasis?

Neither. I don't race cars anymore. I picked a Mustang Boss w/ a Vortech 9lb supercharger, headers, pullies, and exhause. I also owned an L at the same time, so I had the best of both worlds. Those days are over though M3 is nice, but for 50k? It's pretty expensive. Right now I'd take something like a G35 or 3Series. They're fast enough to pass normal traffic and have fun in. I don't need to obliterate anyone anymore. I've grown up Hell my wife owns a Maxima SE and It's fun to drive for the most part.

If money was no object, I'd get an M5 over anything (as far as a family sedan w/ speed).

 

[JulesMaximus]

Okay, I will admit that the Lightning is a fast truck and stock for stock it would probably come down to the driver between an M3 and a Lightning. Are you happy now? Can we stop arguing about this?

If money were no option and I wanted a fast car I would by the M3 (or more likely a Porsche or a Ferrari). If I needed a truck I would buy a real truck (one capable of hauling people and stuff). If I wanted a performance muscle car I would buy a Vette, Viper or possibly a Mustang Cobra. The fast truck market is one that just doesn't intrigue me much if at all. There are better performers out there for the money.

 

[maziwanka]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Aharami
NeuroSynapsis: so you would pick the L over a M3? or a 350Z?

I'd take the L over the Z in a heartbeat, the M is obviously more of a luxury vehicle so can't be fairly compared. I can say that at that price point I wouldn't buy an M3.

Nice cars though.

Viper GTS

and now you can get an 03 cobra for around that price too! (30k)

and yes, i would take that in a heartbeat over any other car (brand new) in the 30k-40k range (and after that, a z06!).

rak, you're gonna get housed for your argument - and i would take an L over the 350z (but as i said above, i would take the cobra over the L and the 350z). im a power freak.

 

[Viper GTS]

Cobras MSRP at $35K+, & last I heard they were in very high demand.

Good luck finding one for $30K.

That's a car I would take over the L any day.



Viper GTS

 

[Ns1]

Lightning:
0-60 5.2s
1/4 13.8s
70-0 197ft
Skidpad .81g

M3:
0-60 4.5s
1/4 13.1s
70-0 161ft
Skidpad .87g


Stats per caranddriver.com

Sorry Viper, Stock M3 > Stock Lightning

 

[NogginBoink]

Originally posted by: Nebor
No, I enjoy street racing a lot. It's just thrilling. 100mph on a 40mph road... your supercharger screaming, the trans am falling behind you as you dodge around a Honda Odessy...

If you've never gotten into street racing.... it's an experience. Oh, and it's fun to lose the cops (I've done it twice in the last few years.... heh.) I do worry about getting in big trouble though.

And how thrilling will it be when you have a collision, and either seriously injure yourself and/or injure or kill a passenger or bystander, and end up in jail?

For the love of all things sane, go to the track. You can drive as fast as you want there. It's legal, it's sanctioned, it's safe(er), and you don't put the lives of innocent bystanders at risk.

 

[Nebor]

You guys are goin' nuts here, seriously.

A Lightning isn't in the same league as an M3, you're talking about twice the money, and an Ultimate Driving Machine. If you've ever driven an M3, it's a beautiful thing, the shifts are perfect, the revs are perfect, it's all smooth and beautiful. By comparison, the shifts on the Lightning are rough, abrupt, and rob you of power (replacing the tranny is a great mod.) But you just have to realize that some people want the car that they want. I feel the Lightning is very unique, and it's very fun, FOR ME.

I never said it performed better than anything but a Trans Am. And that's what it was made to do! Jump off from stop lights w/ ~500ft lbs of torque, and throw you back in the seat. It puts a smile on your face every time.

You guys don't have to buy a Lightning.... I did, it's an 01, it has 6000 miles on it, I bought it new, and drive it on weekends. It's never been out in the rain. It has a hard bed cover and a bed rug in the back, otherwise it's bone stock. I could have bought a Cobra, or an SS, or a 350z (they weren't out then) or an m3. But I wasn't looking for any of those cars, I didn't want a daily driver, I wanted a fun car. And the Lightning fits the bill.

And yeah, burning to death isn't the way to go... And that's tragic... But that's a risk you know about when you get in a race car.