Originally posted by: Skoorb
OK but seriously it's a pickup truck. Pickup TRUCK.Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Try again. It's a stupid vehicle.And then die around the first bendThe thing is stupid, not because it isn't fast, but because it's a pickup truck. It's like putting low profile dubs on a minivan, a functional wing on a geo metro, or drag slicks on a cavalier. Just because somebody can do something doesn't mean they should; that power should be put into a platform intended for power with a lower center of gravity...not a "pickup truck". Really it's a conflict of interests. It's essentially a muscle car that is only good for straight lines and looks ugly to boot, because I'm sure few use the bed for anything.
*BONUS REASON* It attracts people like nebor.
I hope you're messing with my head, I think you're smarter than this.
http://www.nloc.info/forum/forumdisplay.php?&forumid=430
Viper GTS
The man has a point! :beer:
Two tenths of a difference with anyone (with half a brain about cars) can tell you that temperature, driver, altitude, track, and a variety of other things can make either one on top for a day. The L won't lose everytime. It's so close that whoever gets the better jump off the line, the better 60' can win. Everyone doesn't drive perfect everytime. Also the L is an automatic! Compaired to the M3 being a 6 speed. Someone mis-shifts and it's all over. There's more room for error in the m3 than the L.
Hence. Eat your words and crappy research figures that you put up. The L can hang with an M3 anyday.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
Well, since I didn't post those numbers, I don't know why you're referring to my nonexistent research as crappy. Secondly, it was said that the lightning can spank the M3, which is clearly cannot since no numbers here say it can even match it. And thirdly, by your own admission " temperature, driver, altitude, track, and a variety of other things can make either one on top for a day", so it's entirely possible that in actual fact the M3 was on a bad day there and the difference in times is greater.
So, those factors aside, since they are impossible to look at quantifiably, the M3 is a faster 1/4 car than the lightning. That's what Jules said, and he's quite right about it. He never even claimed that the Lightning was slow. In fact nobody did.
What do you race? I owned a Lightning for 3 years and I have first hand knowledge of what it will run. I'd like to know your experience with said vehicles and racing in general.
You can manipulate the words to use for your own, but as I said, EITHER car/truck would win on any day. But the numbers are so close it proves the point that either one could win, given the better launch at the same track and experienced drivers. Furthermore this subject is about street racing, which means whoever is better at the wheel could win. We're using everyday average Joe's, not Mario behind the wheel. So with both numbers being equal, it's all depends on the driver.
FYI I wasn't referring to you; I figured you'd be smart enough to figure it out. That?s why I said "hence eat your words" it's a comment on my post towards him.
He stated "M3 will spank the SVT Lightning." IF you took the time to actually read the post, he did claim the Lightning was slower.
I agree with Skoorb... Its a TRUCK.
You haul things around in it.
You fill it with dirt.
As for stats, I could duct tape a rocket engine onto a riding lawn mower and post great stats, but its still ugly and wierd.
You haul things around in it.
You fill it with dirt.
As for stats, I could duct tape a rocket engine onto a riding lawn mower and post great stats, but its still ugly and wierd.
The M3 has an SMG 6 speed which is the fastest automatic on the market. It shifts in something like 0.2 secs. I doubt Ford has anything like that on their cars let alone their trucks.
205 Morpheus ---------- 1.960, 13.248 @ 104.26 (01, Black)
Is that completely stock? I see no mods next to the vehicle. If so it ran a 13.2 stock. That's insane.
What is so difficult about the concept that roads are for driving from place to place? They are not your own personal playground. If you really want to "race", go to a track, if they have them in the middle of nowhere in Iowa, they have them where you live.
Also, the Lightning is fast, no question. But no matter how much they modify it, it's still a truck and will never handle as well as a performance car. Of course most people seem to think racing consists of going fast in a straight line, so I guess it's perfect for them.
Also, the Lightning is fast, no question. But no matter how much they modify it, it's still a truck and will never handle as well as a performance car. Of course most people seem to think racing consists of going fast in a straight line, so I guess it's perfect for them.
Mis-shift = user error. It doesn't matter technically what the gears can do. I'm talking about people?s inability to drive, or inadvertently shift into the wrong gear. Anyone with a 6 speeds has done it.
We'll quit the car talking now and get it back on track
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
Ah the truth comes out, you owned a lightning
Anyway, yes those numbers show that a lightning could win, just as I could beat out a musgant mach 1 in my sentra if he stalls it at the line. Well, that, and he's slow at restarting it. But the fact is, that since all the numbers here indciate, to varying degrees, that the M3 is faster, one has to assume as much. If the lightning was consistently getting slightly better numbers one would have to assume it's faster, regardless of the fact that a bad L driver and a good M3 driver pitted could result in an unexpected victory for the M3.
Whether the numbers are off by 2% or 50% is you do a million runs in an M3 and a million in an L and you post the averages and the M3 gets higher you can safely say that the M3 is a faster car.
Anyway, back to the point: it's a truck. It's not aimed at people who want a fast vehicle, or a lot of tow power, but rather at racers. A truck platform is an asinine race platform, as one can easily conclude by the fact that so few people base a race platform on a truck. So, that's why I say the L is a stupid vehicle.
I HATE TO BREAK OUT THE CAPS BUT IS ANYBODY READING THE GODDAMN LINKS I'M POSTING?
GO CHECK THE FREAKING AUTO-X FORUM ON NLOC, SINCE YOU PROBABLY THINK AUTO-X = REAL RACING.
Christ almighty, admit it! The L is a very capable performance vehicle, in every sense of the word.
Viper GTS
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Mis-shift = user error. It doesn't matter technically what the gears can do. I'm talking about people?s inability to drive, or inadvertently shift into the wrong gear. Anyone with a 6 speeds has done it.
We'll quit the car talking now and get it back on track
You obviously don't know the M3 very well do you?
The SMG is an automatic it cannot misshift unless you put it in manual mode and shift it yourself. There are secret codes you can enter into the computer to allow the transmission to get even higher performance out of the engine but I believe it only allows you to do this a limited number of times before it is disabled.
Anyway, back on topic.
"A truck platform is an asinine race platform, as one can easily conclude by the fact that so few people base a race platform on a truck. So, that's why I say the L is a stupid vehicle."
Odd cause NASCAR has the Truck series which all the automotive makers participate in. Dodge also has their Hemi, Chevy the SS, and Ford the L. I guess the ten's of thousands of people who Build/Produce/Race/Drive these trucks are all "stupid". But you're right cause your opinion rules all.
Odd cause NASCAR has the Truck series which all the automotive makers participate in. Dodge also has their Hemi, Chevy the SS, and Ford the L. I guess the ten's of thousands of people who Build/Produce/Race/Drive these trucks are all "stupid". But you're right cause your opinion rules all.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,600
- 1,005
- 126
I love it. You're actually going to argue with me that a truck (which by your own admission you don't know if it is stock or not) is faster than a stock M3?
I found actual road tests for stock production vehicles. You are comparing apples to oranges.
The M3 is a very refined road racer. You could literally race it all day and then drive in home on the same tires. Try wrestling a big hunk of metal like the Lightning around a road race facility for an hour and tell me you wouldn't have to replace the tires. Ooops, there going $1000 worth of rubber.
I'm not eating anything. M3 is a far superior vehicle.
I found actual road tests for stock production vehicles. You are comparing apples to oranges.
The M3 is a very refined road racer. You could literally race it all day and then drive in home on the same tires. Try wrestling a big hunk of metal like the Lightning around a road race facility for an hour and tell me you wouldn't have to replace the tires. Ooops, there going $1000 worth of rubber.
I'm not eating anything. M3 is a far superior vehicle.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,600
- 1,005
- 126
Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Mis-shift = user error. It doesn't matter technically what the gears can do. I'm talking about people?s inability to drive, or inadvertently shift into the wrong gear. Anyone with a 6 speeds has done it.
We'll quit the car talking now and get it back on track
You obviously don't know the M3 very well do you?
The SMG is an automatic it cannot misshift unless you put it in manual mode and shift it yourself. There are secret codes you can enter into the computer to allow the transmission to get even higher performance out of the engine but I believe it only allows you to do this a limited number of times before it is disabled.
Anyway, back on topic.
I actually I probably know more than you think. The SMG does indeed have a transmission code that can be activated. It does a full redline clutch dump. Once you do it more than 3-5 times you completely void your warranty. When I first read about it, only dealers could do it through programing. It's actually a "firmware" in the computer that controls the transmission.
Also the numbers tested were for manual transmission shifts. So if you're going to race and get those numbers, it's going to be through manual, which can induce human errors.
JulesMaximus - is just freaking clueless, we'll leave it at that. He doesn't even open the links, but says we're not using comparative data and comparing apples to oranges
Skoobs, yep I owned a Lightning, but guess what? My Fav car is either a Z06 and an M3. It doesn't have anything to do with Bias. It's just silly for people to doom a truck just cause it's a truck. They're uneducated.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
Yes, Viper...but it's still a truck
It could have been a BETTER vehicle if it wasn't a truck.
Well I won't argue with you about that - racing trucks is stupid, and that's all there is too it. While we're at it why don't they make a minivan circuit, or see who can race around a truck fastest with a full load of timber in tow. Why don't we take some street cars, put donuts on all fours, and race them too! What a swell idea. Trucks are an inferior race platform to a car. <- this is something YOU agree with (I'm putting words in your mouth, because I know you agree with this. Anybody would), and as such racing them is idiotic IMO. There's a reason why people watch nascar in greater numbers than that silly group of people who race bigrigs. Albeit watching a highpower big rig is funny, but it's still stupid. It would be no stupider to take a 25 foot RV, fit it with a big engine and nitro, and race it as well.
Wasn't there a old minivan doing 10s a while back? I can't seem to find the link, but I distinctly remember a guy who put a lot of work into the minivan and was smoking everyone at the drags.
That said, a minivan is a potentially capable performance vehicle. That said, there are much better platforms, and I believe that's everyone elses point.
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