Blu-ray's a bag of hurt...

[swbsam]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: swbsam

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: swbsam
I've held out on bothering with blu-ray for a while since HD-Streaming/downloading and directv where filling the need pretty well.

On Saturday I found a sony blu-ray player, open box (bd-s500) on sale for $149 and it was too good of deal to pass up, so I grabbed that and a cheapie blu-ray (T2) to give it all a whirl.

Out of the box the picture quality on a set typical of what most consumers will have, a 720p LCD, was just marginally better than upscaled dvd. Sound was fuller on my 5.1 system, but how many average Joes have surround sound setups?

Anyways, I figured out why the unit was returned - probably multiple times. Out of the box, the disk I picked up suffered from massive lip-sync issues. Also, load time was excessive and the experience not entirely seamless.

A firmware update fixed everything, but overall the experience embarrassing. I really can't see a lot of people caring, beyond the marketing hype.

I understand blu-ray is "better" than dvd, but I don't believe enough so to make for a sustainable format.

Take a look at Die Hard 4, Ratatoullie, Kung-Fu Panda and others, then comment again.

Added to my netflix queue, looking forward to eating my words

P.S. I do have a 1080p set in the house, but I prefer my 720p set - should I swap sets and put the bluray on the 1080p (which currently just has a upscaling dvd player)

I would say "by all means." but again, depends on the make, size, type of each set.

For example, is this 720p set a 50" Pioneer KURO? no need to watch on anything else at that size, regardless of price, maker, type, because those are generally the best HD sets in that class, all else considered (sure, the 1080p version is at least as good, just depends on your willingness to pay 1k more?...)

I'd say the viewing distance to size to resolution of set definitely holds true.

The living room tv is a 42" Hitachi plasma (720p), the bedroom tv is a 42" sylvania 1080p LCD. We much prefer the IQ of the plasma, but I suppose swapping it would make sense due to the raw resolution of blu-ray that we're losing now.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: chuckywang

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
T2 is a pretty crappy transfer. I own it and it's definitely better than the upscaled DVD (wtaching in 1080P), but it still lacks. Watching something like Kill Bill would be much better. If you are unaware, I actually find this list: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858316 to be pretty damn good. All of the Tier 0 movies I have seen from that list have looked stunning. Be warned though, many of the guys that participate in that thread see things I can't see on my 46" screen.

It is unfortunate when people are introduced to the format with a subpar title like this and hopefully the studios will be more careful with their releases in the future. That does seem to be the case so far, going by a lot of the newer releases, though there are still a few that come out looking sub-standard.

As for the loading time, I've never encountered that problem with my PS3. My movies are usually up and running within around 30 seconds maximum.

KT

How the hell can Planet Earth be in the third level? That series is the reason many people converted to HD.

Because it deserves to be compared to the other titles. compare it to Galapagos, which is significantly better in terms of PQ than is Planet Earth.

PE is gorgeous, of course, but those rankings take into account the overall content. A lot of PE is SD content, so that hurts the complete package. Also, consider that anything in Blu and Gold tiers is extremely good compared to DVD. Even the Silver tier is a good bit better.

The reason those rankings work in the long run is because they are updated as the format matures. content like PE was near the top of the list when it was first released. As more and more transfers come out, and technique has clearly matured, many of the old champions get kicked to the bottom. That doesn't mean they look bad, of course.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: swbsam

The living room tv is a 42" Hitachi plasma (720p), the bedroom tv is a 42" sylvania 1080p LCD. We much prefer the IQ of the plasma, but I suppose swapping it would make sense due to the raw resolution of blu-ray that we're losing now.

not necessarily. When considering the resolution, the main difference between the two would be viewing distance, seeing as how your TVs are the same size. At 1080p, you can sit closer with the better resolution, so it does give you that "bigger" experience when it comes to the image. Sitting a little further with the 720p will eliminate any jaggies you might otherwise notice sitting at the same distance that you would with your 1080 set.

I'd say the main consideration in your case is plasma vs LCD. I won't be the first to tell you that the differences you notice are not unique. plasmas are widely regarded to offer the best overall PQ when it comes to current technologies. The most accurate blacks, more vibrant colors.

Most videophiles will argue that a 50" 720p Pioneer Kuro blows any (non-Kuro) set out of the water from 42" up to maybe 62", regardless of resolution. I believe the 5080 remains the highest-rated HD set considering overall quality and value (though they aren't exactly "cheap").

when it comes to HD, resolution is usually considered to be the 4th-most important factor that defines picture quality. Not insignificant, though not as important as Color depth, black/white accuracy...ah hell, I forget. But I remember it being 4th in the list

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: swbsam

Originally posted by: BigToque
Is Blu-Ray better than DVD? Absolutely.
Do most people see the advantage? Probably not.

I've got a nice 1080p tv and a decent stereo, so I can see a benefit in quality.

Most people though really don't have the kind of hardware where they see any real significant increase in quality (or at least not the quality you might expect from a $200+ investment plus more expensive movies/rentals). When you are sitting 6+ feet from a 26-32" tv, using just the built-in speakers, you certainly don't notice a huge difference over DVD.

That's my point - I really don't see this catching on, to the point of supporting a totally new format...Especially during an economic downturn...Will blu-ray matter in a few years? Will it stay around long enough to live along side downloadable hd-video on demand?

But it is catching on and people are adopting at larger rates every week. If you have some time there is an interesting discussion here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb....php?t=798272&page=179 with a lot of facts, figures, and voices of dissent as well, so you get to hear all sides.

Some people say they can't really see a difference between upconverted DVDs and Blu-rays, and with certain transfer and smaller screens I can see that being true, but watching a well-transferred movie on a screen over 42", I find it very hard to believe you cannot tell the difference and that is before we even get into audio.

KT

I think Blueray is going to be a bump in the road and be bypassed by streaming.

assuming we'll ever get 15gb streaming over 2 hours

i have my doubts.

the fact is even walmart carries 1080p tvs now. its trickling down at a rate where you can't really say that most people won't be able to see the difference sooner than you think

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

In 5-10 yeras, people will no longer own meadi, it will all be streamed.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
In 5-10 yeras, people will no longer own meadi, it will all be streamed.

False.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
In 5-10 yeras, people will no longer own meadi, it will all be streamed.

Because nobody buys CDs anymore.

 

[Baked]

Batman Begins looks great on my 1080i LCD HDTV using PS3. /shrug

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Fritzo
I think Blueray is going to be a bump in the road and be bypassed by streaming.

I think that's fairly unlikely.

TV's are already coming with built in ports for streaming.

It makes sense- no extra boxes to hook up and buy, your Internet connection is used by other things already, and in the long run it ends up being less expensive.

it doesn't necessarily have to end up costing more.
just get a netflix/bb subscription and rent unlimited movies for $15/mo.
so cost of bd player + $15/mo.

compared with cost of set top box (or tv with built in capabilities) which is an extra $200 - $300 - basically the cost of a bd player.
then $5 for each movie to download, plus cost of internet connection and you are over the cost of a bd player + netflix subscription.

basically it comes down to this and which is more important to you.
quality of audio/video: bd > streaming
convenience: streaming > bd

 

[spidey07]

Streaming will only take off once massive content caching is in place. We're halfway there. It MUST stay on network and sparsely distributed otherwise it won't work from a cost perspective.

Then you have people factors. They want to have the media in their hands and that mindset will take much longer than 5 years. Sure you think it's cool to stream everything, but that is the extreme minority of consumers. Versus most who just want to sit down, plop a disc in and watch their high quality movie without fuss.

 

[0roo0roo]

and bandwidth. still people like to own films, and streaming isn't always convenient. and being dinged everytime you want to watch a film isn't what everyone wants. music rental didn't exactly catch on, so theres no garrantee at all. they'll probably coexist. but theres no way streaming will wipe out disc formats unless we get some ridiculous bandwidth at ridiculously cheap prices. but thats like maybe 10 years on at the least.

 

[IGBT]

..I'll wait till their 59.95 at costco. by then they'll have gone thru many firmwear solutions and the hardware will be a lot less clunky.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: chuckywang

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
T2 is a pretty crappy transfer. I own it and it's definitely better than the upscaled DVD (wtaching in 1080P), but it still lacks. Watching something like Kill Bill would be much better. If you are unaware, I actually find this list: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858316 to be pretty damn good. All of the Tier 0 movies I have seen from that list have looked stunning. Be warned though, many of the guys that participate in that thread see things I can't see on my 46" screen.

It is unfortunate when people are introduced to the format with a subpar title like this and hopefully the studios will be more careful with their releases in the future. That does seem to be the case so far, going by a lot of the newer releases, though there are still a few that come out looking sub-standard.

As for the loading time, I've never encountered that problem with my PS3. My movies are usually up and running within around 30 seconds maximum.

KT

How the hell can Planet Earth be in the third level? That series is the reason many people converted to HD.

Because it deserves to be compared to the other titles. compare it to Galapagos, which is significantly better in terms of PQ than is Planet Earth.

PE is gorgeous, of course, but those rankings take into account the overall content. A lot of PE is SD content, so that hurts the complete package. Also, consider that anything in Blu and Gold tiers is extremely good compared to DVD. Even the Silver tier is a good bit better.

The reason those rankings work in the long run is because they are updated as the format matures. content like PE was near the top of the list when it was first released. As more and more transfers come out, and technique has clearly matured, many of the old champions get kicked to the bottom. That doesn't mean they look bad, of course.

Which parts of PE were filmed is SD?

As far as I know, the entire thing was filmed using HS cameras, but the pq suffers from environmental and situational problems in the field. I am not aware of any portion of PE being filmed in SD. Some portions may look less than HD, but that is only because of camera issues.

Planet Earth is the first natural history series to be filmed entirely in high definition, providing an unparalleled view of awe-inspiring landscapes from all across the globe and incredible footage of the rarely spotted, almost mythical creatures that live in these habitats.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffi...ebruary/01/earth.shtml

 

[Bulk Beef]

From the back of my PE set:

Due to the difficulty in filming in some habitats, a small percentage of the footage has not been filmed in full HD.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
In 5-10 yeras, people will no longer own meadi, it will all be streamed.

Because nobody buys CDs anymore.

That is correct.

 

[Insomniator]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
In 5-10 yeras, people will no longer own meadi, it will all be streamed.

Because nobody buys CDs anymore.

That is correct.

I don't know anyone my age that buys cd's anymore...

This whole digital transition is going to rapidly increase as the previous generation dies out. Kids brought up these days are 100% computer capable and few will buy cd's or hard copies of anything. The faster this happens, the faster companies will reduce the availability of hard copies which will speed things up even more.

 

[CRXican]

I wish I had the 50" Kuro but I love my 42" 720p Pioneer plasma. I can't get myself to jump to Blu-ray until I have a decent sound setup.

 

[Kanalua]

should've went the PS3 route... never have a problem with BLU-RAY playback, no long term loading...plays fast!

And go with a Home Theater reciever that can handle 7.1/HDMI/ETC...5.1 TrueHD, uncompressed 5.1 and the other new standards are amazing!

Finally...720p?

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Amused
You gotta have the right TV to see the HUGE difference in Blu-Ray over DVDs.

And I mean HUGE difference!

And a 720p low end LCD ain't gonna do it. That's why the Blu-Ray displays at stores have large, 1080P displays.

On my 52" LCD and 67" DLP, the difference is like night and day between Blu-Ray and DVD.

OP,. what you have done is akin to buying a ferrai, driving it on a dirt road, and then complaining about the bumpy ride and traction.

Very well put and very true.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Bulk Beef
From the back of my PE set:

Due to the difficulty in filming in some habitats, a small percentage of the footage has not been filmed in full HD.

yeah, that's what I'm referring to. the slo-mo sequences with the sharks, iirc, is not HD. Outside of the slo-mo it's pretty clear that there is a significant difference in those images compared to the rest.

I think the quality of that technique limits it to SD. It's what...90 fps? maybe more? all those cameras had is a button that releases the shutter, then wirelessly uploads the image files to a HDD. I can't imagine what they'd need to capture those if each frame was 1080.

 

[amdhunter]

All my Blu-ray rips load instantly and look perfect on my Samsung 1080p TV. I dunno wtf you people are talking about.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Tobolo
I have heard that the delay was annoyingly long. Been one of the reasons that I have held off. I guess I will continue to hold off.

To do so would be foolish, as these problems only exist to those who didn't do their homework. The OP could have avoided his woes if he RTFM. I've yet to see a Blu-ray player that didn't tell you to upgrade the firmware pretty early in the instructions, or better yet, written on a separate sheet of paper telling you to do so, printed up just for those who skip the manual.

His choice of player was based on nothing but price. With just a bit of research, he would have known that the BDP-S500 that he decided to buy, was a 1.0 player that Sony released just before players had to support the 1.1 profile. Because of that, the BDP-S500 didn't sell all that well. That worked in the OP's favor, because he got it at a great price. However, it's also the main reason he should have upgraded the firmware. Odds are that was a display unit, and was on the original firmware.

His choice of disk was poor, because T2 is a MPEG-2 disc. Most of the MPEG-2 Blu-ray disks should be avoided.

Originally posted by: Fritzo
I think Blueray is going to be a bump in the road and be bypassed by streaming.

I get so sick of hearing this. Who is your ISP? I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that they are a tv provider. You are kidding yourself if you think they are just going to let streaming take away their piece of the pie.

It's cheap now because streaming is in it's infancy. ISPs have already taken notice, and are starting to implement bandwidth caps. Streaming won't be any better than buying a PPV movie.


The first 2 years of Blu-ray players have outsold the first 2 years of DVD players. And these numbers don't include the PS3. Blu-ray ain't going away anytime soon.

 

[Turin39789]

Meh, any format where I have to painstakingly research the loading time of players and consult a list of discs to find out which ones are actually better than the old format is still a failed format to me.

I think I'll buy my first hdtv sometime in 2010.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Turin39789
Meh, any format where I have to painstakingly research the loading time of players and consult a list of discs to find out which ones are actually better than the old format is still a failed format to me.

I think I'll buy my first hdtv sometime in 2010.

Oh, give me a break. Get a nice HDTV (there are some VERY nice HDTVs out now) and a PS3 and you'll be good to go. A Panasonic DMP-BD55K or Sony BDP-S550 should do nicely too. You really can't go wrong with either of those Blu-ray players. As far as picture quality goes on movies, there are faaaaar more great quality movies than sub par movies. But hell, get a Netflix subscription. Try whatever movies you'd like.

Like others have said, the key to Blu-ray is to have a nice TV. You buy a shit TV, your going to have a crappy Blu-ray experience. Blu-ray can't help your crap TV.

 

[ManBearPig]

Originally posted by: TuxDave
<--- plays blu-ray movies on his PS3 and doesn't really experience any delay to get to the main menu

same