Blu-ray versus HD-DVD (old)

[Schadenfroh]

This discussion continued here (reset due to excessive length)

 

[Shawn]

Upcoming HD DVD Exclusives:
August 28, 2007
* Blades of Glory (Paramount)
* Dawn of the Dead (2004) (Universal)
* Heroes: Season One (Universal)
* The Hurricane (2000) (Universal)
* Notting Hill (Universal)

September 18, 2007
* Elizabeth (Universal)
* For Love of the Game (Universal)
* The Last Starfighter (Universal)
* Saturday Night Fever (Paramount)

September 25, 2007
* Evening (Universal)
* Freedom: 2 (Bandai Visual)
* The Getaway (1994) (Universal)
* Knocked Up (Universal)
* Next (Paramount)
* Patch Adams (Universal)

October 02, 2007
* Top Gun (Paramount)

October 09, 2007
* Evan Almighty (Universal)

October 16, 2007
* A Mighty Heart (Paramount)

October 23, 2007
* Carlito's Way (Universal)
* Carlito's Way: Rise to Power (Universal)
* Inside Man (Universal)
* The Jack Ryan Collection (Paramount)
* Seed of Chucky (Universal Entetainment)

October 30, 2007
* Face/Off (Paramount)
* Talk to Me (Universal) JUST LISTED!

November 10, 2007
* Star Trek: The Original Series - Season One (Paramount)

November 13, 2007
* Pride & Prejudice (2005) (Universal)

November 27, 2007
* Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy (DreamWorks)
* Old School (Paramount)

December 04, 2007
* Battlestar Galactica: Season One (Universal)


Upcoming Blu-ray Exclusives:
September 04, 2007
* Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds: Live at Radio City (Sony BMG)
* Delta Farce (Lionsgate)
* Remember the Titans: Director's Cut (Buena Vista)

September 11, 2007
* The Replacement Killers (Sony)

September 18, 2007
* The Condemned (Lionsgate)
* David Gilmour: Remember That Night (Sony BMG)
* A Few Good Men (Sony)
* House of 1000 Corpses (Lionsgate)

September 25, 2007
* Black Book (Sony)
* Memoirs of a Geisha (Sony)
* Tekkonkinkreet (Sony)
* Underworld (Sony)

October 02, 2007
* Bram Stoker's Dracula (Sony)
* Dawn of the Dead (1978) (Starz)
* The Day After Tomorrow (Fox)
* Day of the Dead (1985) (Starz)
* Evil Dead 2: Dead by Dawn (Starz)
* Halloween (1978) (Starz)
* Master & Commander (Fox)

October 09, 2007
* 28 Days Later (Fox)
* 28 Weeks Later (Fox)
* The Amityville Horror (1979) (MGM)
* Edward Scissorhands (Fox)
* The Fly (1986) (Fox)
* From Hell (Fox)
* Reign Over Me (Sony)
* RoboCop (Re-Issue) (MGM)
* Surf's Up (Sony)

October 16, 2007
* Hollow Man (Director's Cut) (Sony)
* The Invisible (Buena Vista)
* Masters of Horror: Season One - Volume One (Starz)
* Masters of Horror: Season One - Volume Two (Starz)

October 23, 2007
* The Company (2007) (Sony)
* The Hills Have Eyes 2 (Fox)
* Home of the Brave (Fox)
* Hostel (Sony)
* Hostel: Part II (Sony)
* King of New York (Lionsgate)
* Meet the Robinsons (Walt Disney)
* Mr. Brooks (MGM)
* Scary Movie (Dimension)

October 30, 2007
* Spider-Man 3 (Sony)
* Spider-Man: The High-Definition Trilogy (Sony)

November 06, 2007
* Battle of Britain (MGM)
* Beowulf & Grendel (Starz)
* A Bridge Too Far (MGM)
* Cars (Buena Vista)
* Oldboy (Tartan)
* The Pixar Short Films Collection: Volume 1 (Walt Disney)
* Ratatouille (Walt Disney)

November 13, 2007
* Close Encounters of the Third Kind (Sony)
* Dragon Ball Z: Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan/Broly - Second Coming (Double Feature) (FUNimation)
* I, Robot (Fox)
* IMAX: Africa the Serengeti (Razor Digital)
* IMAX: Alaska Spirit of the Wild (Razor Digital)
* IMAX: Antarctica -- An Adventure of a Different Nature (Razor Digital)
* IMAX: Australia Land Beyond Time (Razor Digital)
* Masters of Horror: Season One - Volume Three (Starz)

November 20, 2007
* Badder Santa: The Unrated Version (Buena Vista)
* Queen Rocks Montreal (Eagle Rock)
* The Santa Clause 3: The Escape Clause (Buena Vista)

December 04, 2007
* 20 Million Miles to Earth (Sony)
* Cast Away (Fox)
* Independence Day (Fox)
* Mr. & Mrs. Smith (Fox)
* Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End (Buena Vista)
* Ronin (MGM)

December 11, 2007
* High School Musical 2 (Walt Disney)
* Lost: The Complete Third Season - The Unexplored Experience (Disney)
* Masters of Horror: Season One - Volume Four (Starz)


Non-exclusive Titles:
September 04, 2007
* Nip/Tuck: The Complete Fourth Season (Warner)

September 11, 2007

* Nature's Journey (Koch Distributing)
* Wings of Honneamise (Bandai Visual)

September 18, 2007
* Alexander Revisited: The Final Cut (Warner)
* Deliverance (Warner)
* Jailhouse Rock (Warner)
* Smallville: The Complete Sixth Season (Warner)
* Troy: Director's Cut (Warner)
* Viva Las Vegas (Warner)
* We Are Marshall (Warner)

September 25, 2007
* Gods and Generals (Warner)
* Gothika (Warner)
* The Wild Bunch (Warner)
* Wyatt Earp (Warner)

October 02, 2007
* Galapagos (BBC)
* A Room with a View (BBC)

October 09, 2007
* Twilight Zone: The Movie (Warner)

October 16, 2007
* The Reaping (Warner)
* Return to House on Haunted Hill (Warner)

October 23, 2007
* 2001: A Space Odyssey (Warner)
* A Clockwork Orange (Warner)
* Eyes Wide Shut (Warner)
* Full Metal Jacket: Deluxe Edition (Warner)
* The Shining (1980) (Warner)
* The Sopranos: Season Six, Part Two (Warner)

October 30, 2007
* Digital Video Essentials: HD Basics (DVD International)
* The Polar Express (Warner)

November 13, 2007
* Ultimate Force (BCI)

November 20, 2007
* Led Zeppelin: The Song Remains the Same (Warner)

November 27, 2007
* The Omega Man (Warner)

December 18, 2007
* Blade Runner (Complete Collector's Edition) (Warner)
* Blade Runner (Ultimate Collector's Edition) (Warner)

January 08, 2008
* Twister (Warner) JUST LISTED!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Well done Shawn! :beer: Great synopsis that lets the discussion hit the ground running.

Anyhow, Of the 10-12 BD I have rented from netflix, 2 now, have been cracked on the edge and unplayable. I am beginning to think it is the mew mailman, he is a serious Gomer. I thought of speaking to him, but he might go postal> I reported them so someone else doesn't get stuck with them. The replacement copies have come from as far as MN.

 

[cubby1223]

Ah, gotta love the format war. Along with the titles by format mentioned above, here's a few more gems worth noting:

Terminator 1 & 2: Blu-ray exclusive
Terminator 3: HD DVD exclusive

Evil Deal 1 & 2: Blu-ray exclusive
Army of Darkness: HD DVD exclusive

Firefly: Blu-ray exclusive
Serenity: HD DVD exclusive

Life of Brian & Holy Grail: Blu-ray exclusive
Meaning of Life: HD DVD exclusive

Clerks: Blu-ray exclusive
Clerks II: HD DVD exclusive

Hellboy: Blu-ray exclusive
Hellboy 2: HD DVD exclusive

Transformers (animated): Blu-ray exclusive
Transformers (live action): HD DVD exclusive


(not all titles have been announced in HD, and in the case of Hellboy 2, not filmed yet, but will be released through Universal)

 

[tatteredpotato]

Hows that work? Different distributors for different movies in the series?

 

[Aikouka]

I found it kind of weird how Knocked Up and Superbad will be on opposing formats as well (since Superbad was a Sony film). Although they're not necessarily the same, but having a lot of the same actors and both being backed by Apataw, it makes it a bit weird .

One thing I find somewhat disappointing is the lack of TV shows being released in HD. I do download TV shows off the web if I can't get the channel in HD (only NBC at this point), but I won't delete the shows after I buy the DVDs, because I'd rather watch them in HR HD. Unfortunately the only show I'm getting soon that will be released in HD is Heroes. Both House and Dexter were released in SD only .

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: ObscureCaucasian
Hows that work? Different distributors for different movies in the series?

The world of movie distribution rights is confusing, not only do they span different series, but movies within that series also have different distributors internationally. For example, you can get the Underworld movies, Terminator, and other "Blu-Ray" exclusives internationally for HD DVD, since pro-HD DVD studios distribute them in different countries.

I certainly can't claim to understand it all.

 

[Queasy]

MS Employee Kevin Collins sounds off on HD DVD/Paramount deal.

At any rate, since I am constantly traveling for HD DVD I haven't had time to become active on this forum. I?m currently on vacation but something has come up that even my wife hasn?t been able to prevent me from responding to. It has to do with posts regarding why and how Microsoft supports HD DVD. Here is an example of what I am referring to:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa141.html#dp
?8/20/07 -- Well... the high-definition format war just got more confusing for consumers, and you can thank the hubris of the folks at Microsoft for it. Their HD-DVD format (because I'm sorry, can anyone really say it still belongs to Toshiba at this point?) badly needed a shot in the arm going into the holiday season, and just got it thanks to suitcases full of cash from the Microsoft camp?

I want to go on the record stating that Microsoft did not provide any financial incentives to Paramount/Dreamworks recent decision to support HD DVD. This type of ?reporting? amazes me and I challenge anyone to provide proof around these statements. They are unfounded and inaccurate.

I?m not writing this to debate opinions on why one format will or will not prevail. I?m a writing this to provide some factual information on why and how Microsoft supports HD DVD to hopefully put to rest some of the incorrect information I see online.

Originally Microsoft supported BOTH formats, then two CES?s ago, Microsoft changed to only supporting HD DVD for the following three reasons:
1) Mandatory Managed copy. BD has since also supported this and we are all waiting on the ?final agreement? to be completed from AACS.
2) Guaranteed hardware features on ALL HD DVD players. The mandatory features here being persistent storage, secondary video decoder and networking. Microsoft simply believes, as do the studios, including Disney, that interactivity is a reason for consumers to move from DVD. Please reference this document for reasons that the Warner Home Video and Disney put together in the DVD Forum: http://www.dvdforum.org/images...%20for%20HD%20DVD%20Vi deo%20Application-July2005.pdf. Warner Home Video proves this out by releasing different features in 300 and Blood Diamond (networking ? sharing scenes with friends and PIP) and Paramount did it with MI:3 last year with PIP only in the HD DVD version.
3) Cheaper, higher yield and greater availability of replication. A perfect case point for this is the European market where there are a multitude of HD DVD titles that are only available from the BD studios in the US. The reason for this? Cheaper replication costs and the ability to use local replicators to produce discs. BD50 discs are only produced at two plants in the world (Terre Haute, IN and Japan). Thanks to no region control in HD DVD we can all legally enjoy ?Mr & Mrs Smith?, ?The Prestige? and others from sites http://xploitedcinema.com/catalog/hd-dvds-c-35.html and http://amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_st/203-...t=-releasedate.

For the record, Microsoft?s involvement in HD DVD rotates around supporting the format by:
1) Xbox 360 HD DVD drive
2) VC-1 support for BOTH formats
3) HDi support
4) Work in the DVD Forum from working groups up to the steering committee.

This type of support shouldn?t come as a surprise to anyone as this is what Microsoft has historically done, support developers to use tools to provide the best experience for their customers.

While a lot of people disagree with data posted on Harry Knowles site (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...oap060107.html) Harry accurately reported why Paramount is supporting HD DVD moving forward when he said (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/33722):
?For those of us consuming these products - it's easy to simply believe decisions are made due to just advertising incentives, but when you speak to the technology guys inside these studios - you hear that HD DVD is cheaper, serves the technological needs of the High Definition format, that the programming languages are an extension of the established DVD format - so it is easier for them to work with. This decision is about more than an intial Toshiba advertising incentive - the decision was made at a tech level, an economic level and about a cost delivery level to the public. Paramount made this decision from the tech guys up.?

I hope this clears up the misinformation that has been reported regarding Microsoft?s involvement in the Paramount/Dreamworks decision or in the ?rumored? involvement with Warner. For the record, I respect Bill in that we are both enthusiast from the days of laser discs and we are both interested in seeing movies in HD the way that they were originally on film. In the meantime, I look forward to continue showing everyone, with shipping titles, why Microsoft believes in HD DVD.

Best,

- kevin

 

[LegendKiller]

It's ridiculous that all of these people are crying foul over this move. Paramount went to where the greatest profitability is found, it's as simple as that. As far as the incentives, who cares? Companies shuffle money around all of the time, BDA does it just as readily as anybody else.

I think the justifications given by the CTO of Paramount were all the ones that have been continually mentioned over the past few months, lower cost, higher attachment rates, better standardization...etc.

I think it was a great move and it puts a lot of pressure on others to follow suit. I think Warner is the next to fall, they'll become exclusive shortly. I wouldn't doubt Fox and Disney go neutral by the middle of next year and sony will be the only one holding the bag.

The NPD numbers for July show that the price cut really didn't do a whole lot. It still didn't even outsell the 360 and only scraped by a 60% increase, 60% of a low number is still another low number.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: ObscureCaucasian
Hows that work? Different distributors for different movies in the series?

The world of movie distribution rights is confusing, not only do they span different series, but movies within that series also have different distributors internationally. For example, you can get the Underworld movies, Terminator, and other "Blu-Ray" exclusives internationally for HD DVD, since pro-HD DVD studios distribute them in different countries.

I certainly can't claim to understand it all.

Yeah, there are several Blu-ray exclusives (such as Terminator 2, Underworld, Underworld: Evolution, and The Prestige) available on HD DVD overseas. Since HD DVD has no region coding you can import them and play them on a US HD DVD player.

Exploited Cinema currently has 41 HD DVD imports available. They are usually $10-15 over the standard price.

 

[tatteredpotato]

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: ObscureCaucasian
Hows that work? Different distributors for different movies in the series?

The world of movie distribution rights is confusing, not only do they span different series, but movies within that series also have different distributors internationally. For example, you can get the Underworld movies, Terminator, and other "Blu-Ray" exclusives internationally for HD DVD, since pro-HD DVD studios distribute them in different countries.

I certainly can't claim to understand it all.

Yeah, there are several Blu-ray exclusives (such as Terminator 2, Underworld, Underworld: Evolution, and The Prestige) available on HD DVD overseas. Since HD DVD has no region coding you can import them and play them on a US HD DVD player.

Exploited Cinema currently has 41 HD DVD imports available. They are usually $10-15 over the standard price.

I've heard of the imports, they even have some movies that are not yet released on any HD format in the US, like Harry Potter.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: ObscureCaucasian

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: ObscureCaucasian
Hows that work? Different distributors for different movies in the series?

The world of movie distribution rights is confusing, not only do they span different series, but movies within that series also have different distributors internationally. For example, you can get the Underworld movies, Terminator, and other "Blu-Ray" exclusives internationally for HD DVD, since pro-HD DVD studios distribute them in different countries.

I certainly can't claim to understand it all.

Yeah, there are several Blu-ray exclusives (such as Terminator 2, Underworld, Underworld: Evolution, and The Prestige) available on HD DVD overseas. Since HD DVD has no region coding you can import them and play them on a US HD DVD player.

Exploited Cinema currently has 41 HD DVD imports available. They are usually $10-15 over the standard price.

I've heard of the imports, they even have some movies that are not yet released on any HD format in the US, like Harry Potter.

Yeah, Underworld is on HD DVD and it's not out on Blu-ray yet in the US.

 

[Shawn]

Interesting Poll on Facebook today:

HD DVD or Blu-ray

I'm kind of surprised by the results. With as much advertising the Blu-ray camp as done I would have thought more people would have voted for Blu-ray. It is a limited sample, but I think it represents what the average person thinks as opposed to the tech crowd.

 

[longhornlump]

What happens when the 18 months exclusivity runs out? Do studios just start offering themselves to the highest bidder? Or will there be an affordable dual format player out by then?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: longhornlump
What happens when the 18 months exclusivity runs out? Do studios just start offering themselves to the highest bidder? Or will there be an affordable dual format player out by then?

This'll probably be over in 18mo. If Toshiba can't seal the deal by then it'll be irrelevant.

 

[Shawn]

You have to realize though, that 18 months means that the Blu-ray format will go 2 holiday seasons without any movies from Paramount.

 

[cubby1223]

Now the HD DVD crowd comes out. Where were you guys last week? I missed ya. We're just going to have to see what happens this holiday season. Can Toshiba sell enough standalone players this holiday season with a split Hollywood to overcome the PS3? Right now, seen by Warner & Paramount releases, there are roughly twice as many Blu-ray movie buyers than there are HD DVD buyers. Thus, HD DVD needs to double their total player sales, plus match all the Blu-ray players & PS3s sold from now through the holidays. With a split Hollywood, I'd expect the PS3 to be an even bigger asset to high definition movies, as it puts hardware out in the hands of people who otherwise wouldn't have bought into the format war. Remember, while there are not 3 million Blu-ray movie watching PS3 owners, that's 3 million people who's first entry into hi def movies is going to be Blu-ray, not HD DVD.

Interesting times ahead, let's see what happens with Warner. Either way, expect stronger HD DVD ratios through September, the Blu-ray release schedule does not get strong until October.

 

[Genx87]

In 18 months the battle will look a bit more clear. Attachement rates for HD-DVD are higher and if they can get a cheaper player out in the channel and keep outselling Blu Ray standalones, it is only a matter of time until the movie sales ratios catchup.

 

[Shawn]

Taken from AVS:

Net Loss to BD due to Paramount/Dreamworks Decision
========================================
Blu-ray loss of current releases

Bluray will lose these existing Paramount releases that will now disappear from the list of BD titles available:

Disturbia
Shooter
The Untouchables
The Warriors: Ultimate Director's Cut
Black Snake Moan
Hustle & Flow
Coming to America
Norbit (DreamWorks)
Flags of Our Fathers (DreamWorks)
Trading Places
Freedom Writers
M:I-2
Mission: Impossible
Dreamgirls (DreamWorks)
Failure to Launch
Payback: Straight Up - The Director's Cut
Babel
Black Rain
The Manchurian Candidate (2004)
We Were Soldiers
World Trade Center
Nacho Libre
Reds
Mission: Impossible - Ultimate Missions Collection
Mission: Impossible III
The Italian Job (2003)
Sahara
Aeon Flux
U2: Rattle and Hum
Four Brothers
Lara Croft: Tomb Raider
Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow
Sleepy Hollow

========================================

Blu-ray loss of announced releases

There are also currently 26 titles announced for HD DVD that will not now be released on Blu-ray

Blades of Glory
Saturday Night Fever
Next
Top Gun
A Mighty Heart
The Jack Ryan Collection
Face/Off
Star Trek: The Original Series - Season One
Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy (Dreamworks)
Old School
Shrek The Third (DreamWorks)
Flashdance
Ghost
An Officer and a Gentleman
Zodiac
Braveheart
Coach Carter
Forrest Gump
Grease
Save the Last Dance
School of Rock
Son of Paleface
Spongebob Squarepants: The Movie
Star Trek: First Contact
The Ultimate Star Trek Collection
Vanilla Sky

If you want any of the discontinued releases on Blu-ray you should pick them up ASAP.

 

[cubby1223]

Ah, the first page in the new thread is filling up quite nicely for the hd dvd side of things. I don't know, I'm still holding out for the buy an HD DVD movie, get 5 free players offer from Toshiba / Microsoft. Let the good times roll!

 

[LegendKiller]

Interesting to note that the top electronics item is the HD-A2, the supposedly "crappy" (BD fanboi speak for "something that beats the crap out of my format in price, features, and value) is selling like hotcakes everywhere, BBY employees are saying that they are flying off of the shelves. It's not hard to see when you can get 8 free movies and an HD-A2 for $210.

Meanwhile, people who bitched about Star Trek TOS being 217 can now find it for $13X at several places online. Not bad for 10 fully rematered combo discs with tons of features. $13/disc is a damn good price.

Look to CEDIA to bring more good news for HD DVD. Naturally, all of this is nothing more than a desperation move from the format who just got another exclusive studio. Of course, Universal is ready to switch at any time...

Yeah, good luck with that line of "reasoning"

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Interesting to note that the top electronics item is the HD-A2, the supposedly "crappy" (BD fanboi speak for "something that beats the crap out of my format in price, features, and value) is selling like hotcakes everywhere, BBY employees are saying that they are flying off of the shelves. It's not hard to see when you can get 8 free movies and an HD-A2 for $210.

Meanwhile, people who bitched about Star Trek TOS being 217 can now find it for $13X at several places online. Not bad for 10 fully rematered combo discs with tons of features. $13/disc is a damn good price.

Look to CEDIA to bring more good news for HD DVD. Naturally, all of this is nothing more than a desperation move from the format who just got another exclusive studio. Of course, Universal is ready to switch at any time...

Yeah, good luck with that line of "reasoning"

And you are talking to... ?

Yeah, this thread is going places.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Interesting to note that the top electronics item is the HD-A2, the supposedly "crappy" (BD fanboi speak for "something that beats the crap out of my format in price, features, and value) is selling like hotcakes everywhere, BBY employees are saying that they are flying off of the shelves. It's not hard to see when you can get 8 free movies and an HD-A2 for $210.

Meanwhile, people who bitched about Star Trek TOS being 217 can now find it for $13X at several places online. Not bad for 10 fully rematered combo discs with tons of features. $13/disc is a damn good price.

Look to CEDIA to bring more good news for HD DVD. Naturally, all of this is nothing more than a desperation move from the format who just got another exclusive studio. Of course, Universal is ready to switch at any time...

Yeah, good luck with that line of "reasoning"

And you are talking to... ?

Yeah, this thread is going places.

I like your way of debate and logic. I could go back and repeat some of things you said about HD DVD, but I think we all know how those predictions, assumptions, and "analysis" have gone.

 

[dwell]

LegendKiller is talking about Amazon, the reason the HD-A2 is a best seller, which he fails to mention, is there is a special offer where you get eight discs with any HD-DVD player. You can also get a PS3 and eight discs for $480 at Amazon

PS3 is currently the #1 seller in the video game category at Amazon.

Or a bunch of other HDM deals.

 

[dwell]

dp