BloombergIntel in talks with AMD to license GPU patents

[Genx87]

Knowing AMD they would license it for 22 million\qtr.

 

[Genx87]

They are talking "IP" in the same sense that the NVidia deal covered; patent cover to stop your ass getting sued. They didn't just shove NVidia GPUs into their chips, and they're not going to shove AMD GPUs into their chips. This is about patents, not specific designs.

Seems like a sensible move for Intel; throw AMD a lifeline to keep anti-trust off your back, stop feeding money to NVidia (who seem like the more credible rival right now), and if AMD goes belly up you can just acquire the portfolio at a knock down price.

The anti-trust guys wont be coming around even if AMD ceases to exist. The CPU business is far larger than Intel and AMD at this point. x86 is a minority player in devices shipped by quite a bit in terms of unit sales.

 

[Genx87]

Or so NVidia claimed. They were perfectly happy to accept console margins for two generations in a row, then when they didn't have something competitive to offer they claim they never wanted it in the first place.

Both companies wanted an integrated all-in-one chip, and they wanted a 64-bit CPU. NVidia weren't in a position to offer that so they were out.

Eh have you seen AMDs margins? The more the consoles represent of their sales the lower their margins go. I think it is safe to say Nvidia was correct in saying margins for consoles was beyond horrible. I have heard rumors margins are in the teens. You cant run a business on margins like that. As evidenced quarterly by AMD.

 

[thesmokingman]

Eh have you seen AMDs margins? The more the consoles represent of their sales the lower their margins go. I think it is safe to say Nvidia was correct in saying margins for consoles was beyond horrible. I have heard rumors margins are in the teens. You cant run a business on margins like that. As evidenced quarterly by AMD.

The consoles have more value than just the margins.


And its not as if they could compete anyways w/o a cpu to combo with.

 

[Genx87]

The consoles have more value than just the margins.


And its not as if they could compete anyways w/o a cpu to combo with.

What value would that be? Clearly it isnt monetary.

 

[Bacon1]

What value would that be? Clearly it isnt monetary.

Optimizations for desktop cards, VR influence, etc along with money, R&D costs paid off, etc.

 

[thilanliyan]

What value would that be? Clearly it isnt monetary.

Ideal scenario would be AMD cards perform better in VR, or DX12, or whatever may be related to console port performance, and hence people would see benchmarks and HOPEFULLY end up buying AMD cards.

However, I'm bot blind to the fact that some people will buy nVidia even if JHH came to your house and poisoned your pet, so I wouldn't assume that doing well in console ports will lead to better sales for AMD.

 

[nurturedhate]

Optimizations for desktop cards, VR influence, etc along with money, R&D costs paid off, etc.

These are all great points, though AMD missed the largest benefit. They really should have demanded a "Powered by AMD" sticker or logo on each and every console sold. That sort of mind share would have paid off over time.

 

[Genx87]

Optimizations for desktop cards, VR influence, etc along with money, R&D costs paid off, etc.

AMD has been in consoles for a decade(Wii,Xbox 360,XBone, PS4). This has produced very little advantages when it comes to optimizations and monetary gain. Monetary is where all of these advantages need to arrive for it to be worthy.

So while it sounds great on paper being in consoles hasnt produced much of anything for AMD so far. Just really low margins that are killing the company.

 

[Bryf50]

Anyone who thinks Nvidia or Intel just shrugged off $100s of millions in revenue from console deals is crazy. Low margins are better than nothing at all. AMD had the right product at the right time. It hasn't been enough to carry the whole company financially but it's profitable.

So while it sounds great on paper being in consoles hasnt produced much of anything for AMD so far. Just really low margins that are killing the company.

How is the only currently profitable segment of AMDs business the thing that is killing the company?

 

[thesmokingman]

Anyone who thinks Nvidia or Intel just shrugged off $100s of millions in revenue from console deals is crazy. Low margins are better than nothing at all. AMD had the right product at the right time. It hasn't been enough to carry the whole company financially but it's profitable.

Not to mention the value of controlling the face of gaming and the direction in regards to the api. Hello, dx12, consoles, vr, hsa, now intel wants in on the action. But to the stans it is valueless lol.

 

[Bacon1]

AMD has been in consoles for a decade(Wii,Xbox 360,XBone, PS4). This has produced very little advantages when it comes to optimizations and monetary gain. Monetary is where all of these advantages need to arrive for it to be worthy.

So while it sounds great on paper being in consoles hasnt produced much of anything for AMD so far. Just really low margins that are killing the company.

Except those consoles were all different. PS4 and XB1 are very, very similar, and also use the same architecture as the desktop GPUS (GCN).

Look at recent game releases to see how its already helping.

Division and Far Cry Primal are two major examples, neither partnered with AMD yet they are both running great on AMD hardware at launch.

But yes, they should have pushed for better marketing that they own the consoles, they actually mentioned that in one of the videos from GDC monday. They said, not enough people recognize that they power the consoles and they needed to market that more.

 

[Genx87]

Anyone who thinks Nvidia or Intel just shrugged off $100s of millions in revenue from console deals is crazy. Low margins are better than nothing at all. AMD had the right product at the right time. It hasn't been enough to carry the whole company financially but it's profitable.



How is the only currently profitable segment of AMDs business the thing that is killing the company?

How has it been profitable? AMD is losing money with margins in the low to mid 30s. Console sales were rumored to be in the teens. And no, low margins are not always better than nothing at all. Smart business maximizes margins. Gross margins are the difference between cost of goods and sale price. Intels margins are in the 60s, Nvidias in the 50s. One of the reasons Intel hasnt got into desktop discrete graphics is due to their lower margins. No way would Intel waste resources chasing a product with margins in the teens. Doesnt come out for them and it doesnt come out for AMD neither.

 

[Bryf50]

How has it been profitable? AMD is losing money with margins in the low to mid 30s. Console sales were rumored to be in the teens. And no, low margins are not always better than nothing at all. Smart business maximizes margins. Gross margins are the difference between cost of goods and sale price. Intels margins are in the 60s, Nvidias in the 50s. One of the reasons Intel hasnt got into desktop discrete graphics is due to their lower margins. No way would Intel waste resources chasing a product with margins in the teens. Doesnt come out for them and it doesnt come out for AMD neither.

Enterprise, Embedded and Semi-Custom is the only part of AMDs business that's running a profit.

The volume and profit is there. It's just not enough to carry the whole company.

 

[Genx87]

Enterprise, Embedded and Semi-Custom is the only part of AMDs business that's running a profit.

The volume and profit is there. It's just not enough to carry the whole company.

Enterprise is where they make their money if they wont break it out. Ever seen the price of a FirePro? It is their Xeon of graphics cards.

 

[NTMBK]

It's a big old chunk of revenue which they are making a small profit on, for minimal R&D (already had the CPU, GPU and memory controller IP required). It's a considerably better business than, say, Tegra, trying to compete in the smartphone market, which has even slimmer margins and far more competition. How much money did Nvidia pour down that pit again?

Tegra demonstrates that they will pursue low margin markets if the volume is sufficient, same as the PS3 and XBox. Go read about how aggressively Nvidia chased the original XBox contract; Dean Takahashi's book has lots of fascinating detail.

 

[Zstream]

How has it been profitable? AMD is losing money with margins in the low to mid 30s. Console sales were rumored to be in the teens. And no, low margins are not always better than nothing at all. Smart business maximizes margins. Gross margins are the difference between cost of goods and sale price. Intels margins are in the 60s, Nvidias in the 50s. One of the reasons Intel hasnt got into desktop discrete graphics is due to their lower margins. No way would Intel waste resources chasing a product with margins in the teens. Doesnt come out for them and it doesnt come out for AMD neither.

Ok, not to sound like a prick, but margins mean nothing without understanding what margins you're referencing.

An operating net margin vs. gross margin. There is a bunch of information, and assuming one or the other is fairly dumb. If a net margin is in the 30% range, you sure as heck can make money. In fact, a gross margin of that, you could be making money.

 

[Makaveli]

These are all great points, though AMD missed the largest benefit. They really should have demanded a "Powered by AMD" sticker or logo on each and every console sold. That sort of mind share would have paid off over time.

Great point I however don't think Sony or MS would have ever allowed that.

If there is gonna be a big shiny logo on the consoles it will be there own.

 

[Magee_MC]

Great point I however don't think Sony or MS would have ever allowed that.

If there is gonna be a big shiny logo on the consoles it will be there own.

They might have gone for a joint promotional campaign.

 

[dbcoopernz]

FYI, this "Bloomberg report" is not on their website. Pump and dump?

 

[thesmokingman]

FYI, this "Bloomberg report" is not on their website. Pump and dump?

Looks like it but apparently that won't stop the analysts.

http://blogs.barrons.com/techtrader...rg-report-intel-may-license-graphics-patents/

 

[Sonikku]

Intel can't buy AMD, feds won't allow it as it would be a clear violation of monopoly laws.

What do you think this is, the 80's?

 

[3DVagabond]

Eh have you seen AMDs margins? The more the consoles represent of their sales the lower their margins go. I think it is safe to say Nvidia was correct in saying margins for consoles was beyond horrible. I have heard rumors margins are in the teens. You cant run a business on margins like that. As evidenced quarterly by AMD.

And you can't define anything by a single metric. AMD needs to start selling CPU's again. Then, if they aren't making money we can consider the console margins being an issue. Right now it seems that AMD is doing a great job getting their ecosystem into everything. That is very likely due to the consoles. It's not their PC market share that's driving that.

 

[3DVagabond]

AMD has been in consoles for a decade(Wii,Xbox 360,XBone, PS4). This has produced very little advantages when it comes to optimizations and monetary gain. Monetary is where all of these advantages need to arrive for it to be worthy.

So while it sounds great on paper being in consoles hasnt produced much of anything for AMD so far. Just really low margins that are killing the company.

Current consoles and PC's run a very similar API that are close(r) to the metal. The similarity in hardware does make a difference. Before the PC ran an API with a very "thick" abstraction layer and didn't take advantage of the console optimizations. Therefor you can't simply say it's going to be the same as it ever was. The current situation is different. It's likely the reason Intel is now interested in AMD's IP. That's additional revenue.

People who hate AMD can try and put a negative spin on anything. It doesn't make anything they claim factual.

 

[tential]

What do you think this is, the 80's?

With enough money, anything is possible in our system.... If you didn't get what you want, you didn't lobby hard enough.
I can rant for awhile, but really, that also explains this scenario.

If it violated any laws what so ever, as long as you shake the right hands, it will happen.

Just pretty much have to wait and see if it happens or not.