Bloomberg Worries About Illegal Guns

[brandonb]

Sorry Throckmorton,

I trust criminals with their illegal guns more than I trust those in charge of our government. I can handle the criminals with their illegal guns (I have CCW)... The government on the other hand, I can't handle unless everybody else is armed.

Bloomberg is one of those who is in charge of government, and therefore, I don't trust him. So if he says he is worried about illegal guns, that means there is an agenda, and I will have to support the opposite.

 

[Throckmorton]

All gun stores have to do a background check on any firearm sale. If they don't they lose their license.

I take it you're not very familiar with firearm laws and what's currently in place from a federal and state level? Are you getting your information from the media?

What? I said that if you require the gun shops to do background checks, they do it. So it makes no sense to talk about criminals disobeying the laws anyway. They go to a store to buy a gun, they don't get to say "I'm a lawbreaker anyway, don't bother with the background check".

 

[Throckmorton]

Sorry Throckmorton,

I trust criminals with their illegal guns more than I trust those in charge of our government. I can handle the criminals with their illegal guns (I have CCW)... The government on the other hand, I can't handle unless everybody else is armed.

Bloomberg is one of those who is in charge of government, and therefore, I don't trust him. So if he says he is worried about illegal guns, that means there is an agenda, and I will have to support the opposite.

The people who think everybody has an agenda are the ones who live in safe suburbs and rural towns where gun violence isn't a problem. I personally don't care about illegal guns because shootings are so rare on Maui... but I'd care if I lived in New York or Chicago.

 

[piasabird]

Registering guns is impossible. It is too easy to buy and sell guns outside of a gunshop between two individuals. I think if Bloomberg had things his way all guns would be considered illegal. He thinks he is Hitler and knows whats best for the little people.

If there was a death sentence for committing a crime with a gun maybe there would be less gun crime. Idiots keep letting hard-core criminals out of jail with light sentences, or no snetence at all. A gun crime should equate to an instant death sentence. I would have the same sentence for stealing a car. Society is being too soft on criminals. There is no crime that we will not accept an excuse for!

 

[nyker96]

It's not just that Nyker. Reasonable people should also be against attempts to regulate ammo (like the enviro wackos recent attempts to have lead shot banned, which was rejected) or 1 gun per month rules, expensive licensing/transfer fees, taxes on rifle ammo, etc. All of these things make it expensive to shoot until you eventually chip away at the number of people who can afford the sport leading to a defacto ban and/or disarmed populace.

But not one of these things will stop a criminal or evildoer from getting or using a gun in a crime. In fact statistics show violent crime increase when criminals bet the odds of you being disarmed are greater.

I totally agree with you that some of these laws are making gun enthusiasts' life much harder and making this hobby more expensive too, while not effective in stopping criminals. That types of laws in my personal opinion should be dropped. And on top of that I believe allowing gun ownership of citizens increases their protection in tough neighborhoods.

However, been reasonable person, I also believe _some_ laws are sensible. For instance, (1) restriction on hollow point ammos that can kill policeman wearing vests. (2) Give bar owners the right to refuse guns at their bars, when someone drink heavily I don't think he can make rational decisions at that point. But owners should have the freedom to decide. (3) people with criminal records or mental problems should meet more stringent criteria for gun ownerships. (4) of course children should NOT be permitted to buy guns.

 

[Throckmorton]

I thought it was sharp pointed bullets that penetrate vests. Hollow points flatten and cause more damage but I'd assume they have an even harder time penetrating a kevlar vest than a regular bullet.

 

[spidey07]

I totally agree with you that some of these laws are making gun enthusiasts' life much harder and making this hobby more expensive too, while not effective in stopping criminals. That types of laws in my personal opinion should be dropped. And on top of that I believe allowing gun ownership of citizens increases their protection in tough neighborhoods.

However, been reasonable person, I also believe _some_ laws are sensible. For instance, (1) restriction on hollow point ammos that can kill policeman wearing vests. (2) Give bar owners the right to refuse guns at their bars, when someone drink heavily I don't think he can make rational decisions at that point. But owners should have the freedom to decide. (3) people with criminal records or mental problems should meet more stringent criteria for gun ownerships. (4) of course children should NOT be permitted to buy guns.

1) There are restrictions and ANY self defense ammo is going to be jacketed hollow point
2) Bar owners absolutely today have the right to post a no firearms sign and refuse entry or service, any place of business can do this in any state
3) People with criminal records (felony) or mental problems cannot purchase a weapon legally
4) Kids can't buy guns but they can be gifted from their family

So all of your wishes exist today.

 

[xj0hnx]

(1) restriction on hollow point ammos that can kill policeman wearing vests.

(2) Give bar owners the right to refuse guns at their bars, when someone drink heavily I don't think he can make rational decisions at that point. But owners should have the freedom to decide.

(3) people with criminal records or mental problems should meet more stringent criteria for gun ownerships.

(4) of course children should NOT be permitted to buy guns.

1) Hollow point is not the criteria for penetrating a vest.

2) Don't need to, it already exist, Here it's the 51% law. 51% or more of sales from alcohol in an establishment and it's illegal to carry there, even legally licensed.

3) You mean besides already not being able to purchase them?

4) Pretty sure the minimum age is 21 for a handgun, 18 for a rifle/shotgun already.

 

[QuantumPion]

Where do criminals buy guns to avoid registration? From states with weak gun laws.

Perhaps you could enlighten us to which gun laws or lack thereof specifically allows criminals to more easily get guns in certain states.

For the record, the vast majority of criminals get their guns from friends or family members. The second largest category is straw-buys. Neither of these categories would be restrained by any law.

 

[nyker96]

1) There are restrictions and ANY self defense ammo is going to be jacketed hollow point
2) Bar owners absolutely today have the right to post a no firearms sign and refuse entry or service, any place of business can do this in any state
3) People with criminal records (felony) or mental problems cannot purchase a weapon legally
4) Kids can't buy guns but they can be gifted from their family

So all of your wishes exist today.

yes like I said, these are to me reasonable gun laws.

 

[Throckmorton]

Perhaps you could enlighten us to which gun laws or lack thereof specifically allows criminals to more easily get guns in certain states.

For the record, the vast majority of criminals get their guns from friends or family members. The second largest category is straw-buys. Neither of these categories would be restrained by any law.

Mississippi, West Virginia, Kentucky, Alaska, Alabama, South Carolina, Virginia, Indiana, Nevada and Georgia were the 10 states that supplied guns used in crimes at the highest rates -- each of them supplying such guns at a rate more than twice the national average.

 

[Throckmorton]

2) Bar owners absolutely today have the right to post a no firearms sign and refuse entry or service, any place of business can do this in any state

This article implies that with the new guns in bars laws, shop owners can't restrict the rights of the gun carriers, even on their private property.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/04/us/04guns.html

 

[Craig234]

Sorry Throckmorton,

I trust criminals with their illegal guns more than I trust those in charge of our government. I can handle the criminals with their illegal guns (I have CCW)... The government on the other hand, I can't handle unless everybody else is armed.

Bloomberg is one of those who is in charge of government, and therefore, I don't trust him. So if he says he is worried about illegal guns, that means there is an agenda, and I will have to support the opposite.

You hate democracy.

The whole concept of an elected government serving the people is alien to you.

We all understand the danger of excessive concentrated power - some more than others - whether it's in the form of an authoritarian government, or 'private', or usually both.

The government can be a force for tyranny or for protection from tyranny, but you don't get that - only the tyranny part.

Michael Bloomberg isn't your enemy, he's not worse than armed violent criminals, he's not a tyrant. These are delusions you have.

And oh by the way, CCW is of limited value against criminals stalking lone victims.

They have the element of surprise, and are pleased to find your gun - perhaps on your body - for them to use in another crime. You are a radical.

The way to protect the public from tyranny has a lot more to it than CCW - things liberals do, pursuing rights, limits on the use of violence and on authority, and much more.

 

[QuantumPion]

Why don't we also legally require everybody who sells a gun at a gun show has to get a copy of the driver's license etc?

There's already a law that says you can't sell a gun to someone that can't legally own one, so that would just be superfluous. It's generally good practice though. If you sell a gun to a criminal that murders someone, it could end up being traced back to you by its serial number. Without a transaction sheet showing at least superficial evidence that you sold it, you'd be in some deep doodoo.

 

[QuantumPion]

This article implies that with the new guns in bars laws, shop owners can't restrict the rights of the gun carriers, even on their private property.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/04/us/04guns.html

Well if the government can make laws banning you from allowing smoking in a restaurant, or a law banning you from preventing black people from patronizing your restaurant, why can't they make a law that says you can't prohibit people from legally carrying?

 

[Throckmorton]

There's already a law that says you can't sell a gun to someone that can't legally own one, so that would just be superfluous. It's generally good practice though. If you sell a gun to a criminal that murders someone, it could end up being traced back to you by its serial number. Without a transaction sheet showing at least superficial evidence that you sold it, you'd be in some deep doodoo.

How about requiring the seller to collect that information and submit it to the government? Just like when you sell a car and transfer registration... The buyer can choose not to transfer it legally, and the seller can take it upon himself.

 

[Throckmorton]

Well if the government can make laws banning you from allowing smoking in a restaurant, or a law banning you from preventing black people from patronizing your restaurant, why can't they make a law that says you can't prohibit people from legally carrying?

They can, which is the problem. It seems to me that they shouldn't be making laws like that.

 

[spidey07]

This article implies that with the new guns in bars laws, shop owners can't restrict the rights of the gun carriers, even on their private property.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/04/us/04guns.html

No it doesn't. Any property or business owner can post a sign saying no guns. This is why I asked if you knew state and federal laws because it seems you're clueless on the topic and have been spoon fed anti-gun lies.

The law allows restaurant and bar owners to prohibit people from carrying weapons inside their establishments by posting signs out front. But many restaurateurs are reluctant to discourage the patronage of gun owners, often saying privately that they do not allow guns but holding off on posting a sign.

 

[xj0hnx]

How about requiring the seller to collect that information and submit it to the government? Just like when you sell a car and transfer registration... The buyer can choose not to transfer it legally, and the seller can take it upon himself.

Because owning a firearm isn't a privilege, it's a right. The people that are not allowed to have guns are already "registered".

 

[xj0hnx]

They can, which is the problem. It seems to me that they shouldn't be making laws like that.

So there shouldn't be a law against banning black people from your private property? Why do you hate the Civil Rights Act so much? Are you a Rand fan?

 

[Throckmorton]

Because owning a firearm isn't a privilege, it's a right. The people that are not allowed to have guns are already "registered".

Owning a car isn't a privilege either, it's a right. Unless owning personal property isn't a right.

 

[spidey07]

Owning a car isn't a privilege either, it's a right. Unless owning personal property isn't a right.

And you don't have to register it to buy or own it, only to drive on public roads. This comparison is always brought up and always fails.

 

[Throckmorton]

No it doesn't. Any property or business owner can post a sign saying no guns. This is why I asked if you knew state and federal laws because it seems you're clueless on the topic and have been spoon fed anti-gun lies.

I specifically said that the article made it sound like shop owners don't have the right to restrict guns and ASKED about it.

Do YOU know the gun laws in other states? Tell me where and how you're allowed to carry guns in Hawaii.

BTW, have you failed to notice that I've repeatedly defended gun rights on this forum? Is that because I've been "spoon fed anti-gun lies"?

 

[Throckmorton]

So there shouldn't be a law against banning black people from your private property? Why do you hate the Civil Rights Act so much? Are you a Rand fan?

I think it's stupid to act like a sniveling dog begging to give your money to a bigot who doesn't want your business.

 

[xj0hnx]

Owning a car isn't a privilege either, it's a right. Unless owning personal property isn't a right.

Operating a car is not a right, more specifically is not a Constitutionally protected right.