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Bloomberg: Solar and Wind Just Passed Another Big Turning Point

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Cool, but what makes Tesla's batteries better than your average lead-acid car battery, or dangerous lithium-ion technology?

I'm not privy to Tesla's processes, but I doubt they would make a 10 year claim without being able to fulfill it. I think it shows that work on the issue is being made on a small scale and there is a chance however small that it might contribute to the large scale projects.

It seems that Tesla being a private company deems that the individual solutions are more profitable for them and the large scale solutions might need Government investment.... which might be problematic looking around at other threads in this sub-forum.

I don't disagree that large scale solutions as well as smaller scale solutions should be looked at but it seems there are less obstacles economic or technological for the small scale solutions atm.


...
 
Sorry, my sarcasm detector is broken today... I'm going to assume the best here. 😉

The headaches from wind turbines was real - even the deaf felt the same. However, this is only when you're very close to them.

And only 10-20% of the people I know who complain about gluten are ACTUALLY allergic. 😉

Point taken on very close. I live in the NE most wind farms are far off shore and assholes complain about headaches from turbines that are miles off shore.
 
^^ Well, if every home had batteries connected to the grid, the grid would benefit as a whole - but I can't see people contributing their own money only to give it to strangers.

Given that our civilization is more likely to fall into shortages than a 'golden age' of clean energy for all... I think having a bank of these batteries, a handful of good panels and maybe one wind turbine backup is a good solution.
 
The idea is during the evening you can stay off the grid. One added benefit in my area is batteries work like generators in a power failure you can switch off the grid and your panels charge the battery during the day but your home runs off the battery entirely.
 
A power company in the Nashville Tennessee area wants to buy wind power generated in Oklahoma, is that far enough away? The problem is that they want to run the power line across Arkansas to do it and a lot of people here don't want that.
 
A power company in the Nashville Tennessee area wants to buy wind power generated in Oklahoma, is that far enough away? The problem is that they want to run the power line across Arkansas to do it and a lot of people here don't want that.

I totally understand if people don't want a huge tower on their land with minimal compensation from the power company these people are not assholes. The people that don't want a power line near them because of electro magnetic radiation are assholes.
 
Yes, we need to solve the storage issue but it's good we've made alternative energy economically competitive without subsidies. That's really the only thing that will allow it to become viable to scale.

As for killing birds, we just need to realistically decide which tradeoffs we're willing to make. Sure that's a bad outcome but so are some of the outcomes from any other power source yet developed and that shouldn't be fodder for nutty environmentalists who have gone way beyond NIMBY into a mentality of BANANA (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything)
lol BANANA, I like that.

^^ Well, if every home had batteries connected to the grid, the grid would benefit as a whole - but I can't see people contributing their own money only to give it to strangers.

Given that our civilization is more likely to fall into shortages than a 'golden age' of clean energy for all... I think having a bank of these batteries, a handful of good panels and maybe one wind turbine backup is a good solution.
That plus power is metered in both directions, so if the grid is pulling from your batteries, you make bank.
 
That plus power is metered in both directions, so if the grid is pulling from your batteries, you make bank.

But you have to make 3-5x more power than you're using just to break even. Your power bill is 60-70% "fees" (connection, etc.) and only a small portion is the actual electricity usage cost. They buy back at a lower rate than they charge you for consumption - if they will at all. But we're venturing into territory I'm less familiar with... I'll have to read up on "regular folk" who have successfully sold back to the power companies for more details.

Having your own Tesla bank would be a fantastic idea for some of those cities prone to rolling brown/blackouts. You'd have uninterrupted power, as well as a cleaner and more constant current for your electronics. Neighbours almost always frown on small wind generators mounted on houses. I guess they make noise? Off to youtube for an audio example...
 
All we need is the next evolutionary step in batteries and the whole world changes overnight.

Or you just pump water uphill. I'm not sure about the exact efficiency but you can make damn near any amount of storage you want.

But with modern monitoring and modern weather profiles we can make really really good estimates of energy production from renewables. That allows them to be ready to have other methods of generation spooled up when needed and shut down when not.
 
Or you just pump water uphill. I'm not sure about the exact efficiency but you can make damn near any amount of storage you want.

But with modern monitoring and modern weather profiles we can make really really good estimates of energy production from renewables. That allows them to be ready to have other methods of generation spooled up when needed and shut down when not.

It took a sec for me to make the connection, but yeah - you pump the water into a lake-sized "tank" during the day, let it flow into a lower "pool" overnight passing through a hydroelectric generator along the way. Not bad... a massive building project could also maximize this and eliminate the environmental impact of dams.

Watching a good documentary on the future of energy... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AufoixU4cHk

Was watching a couple documentaries on wind farms but a couple of the ones trying to make them seem like awful death-dealing towers of doom didn't put forth many facts or evidence, just lots and lots of little old ladies sobbing their eyes out. *sigh* Maybe the doccy I linked to will address wind power further in with a little more objectivity. The currently-used solar plant using only mirrors to heat a pipe of oil to a steam turbine was pretty dang clever!
Mordor.png

(Just picture a big wind turbine blade on there and you have the documentary I mentioned earlier.)
 
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And before anyone complains about wind turbines killing pretty little birdies, I should dig up the research showing how many birds are killed by turbines and other man-made causes, and domestic cats. (The cats outnumbered everything by a huge margin! Like several thousand times as many.)

The point is lost on narrow-minded people; the little dinky birds that cats consumes in as you say far greater number don't get sliced and diced but locate a propeller driven hill where a raptor would glide waiting for dinner and it is a different story. Raptor losses is alarming and most raptors are more likely to eat a feral cat than be eaten. Tabby against a red hawk or American eagle doesn't stand much of a chance.

The point is currently there are three major sources of renewable energy and all three require critical review of their location and design before constructing; wind is the most critical and there're ways to design and/or locate wind in almost every case.

Geothermal is limited to location and seldom requires wildlife consideration except where the water after generation is now cool enough to support migratory birds, and for underground sources that don't vent, water in the winter where snow and ice would otherwise preclude wildlife.

Solar only becomes a problem when it becomes so massive it blocks migration and either a corridor or other methods can be done. Environmental concerns are real but wise planning and mitigation can overcome; unfortunately without government subsidies very few if any massive solar projects will be on the planning table in the next few years.

Blue_Max While your digging look at raptors but this isn't the thread to discuss this.

What we really need is a common sense approach to this.

One point to make as an example; in the southwest we use energy for air conditioning in the summer when the suns out and a lot of that 'you need to be able to generate for peak load' argument could be reduced if we used solar air conditioning; realistically there is little or no infrastructure cost to the power company, excess power I generate goes next door to the person with the tile roof and no panels. Since an electrical customer can reduce his summer power bill by over $100 a month for four months each year and lessor amounts the rest of the year, investing $8 to 10K is a return on ones investment of 10 to 15% here in Las Vegas.

If the nimrods who make decisions based on the benefits to the citizens instead the personal benefits bestowed by the wealthier PACs we might be like Europe; sadly we are not.
 
But you have to make 3-5x more power than you're using just to break even. Your power bill is 60-70% "fees" (connection, etc.) and only a small portion is the actual electricity usage cost. They buy back at a lower rate than they charge you for consumption - if they will at all. But we're venturing into territory I'm less familiar with... I'll have to read up on "regular folk" who have successfully sold back to the power companies for more details.

Having your own Tesla bank would be a fantastic idea for some of those cities prone to rolling brown/blackouts. You'd have uninterrupted power, as well as a cleaner and more constant current for your electronics. Neighbours almost always frown on small wind generators mounted on houses. I guess they make noise? Off to youtube for an audio example...

In almost every state you get a direct 1 to 1 credit for every KW/H you produce and put back into the grid, which includes fees and fuel sub-charges. This is true, again in almost every state, up until the point that you produce all of the electricity you use on a yearly basis. That means that you can't actually make money by selling power back to the power company but you can effectively make your power bill zero. Once you try to make money off of them you are considered a "power distributor" and you are paid on the same basis which is jack shit unless you are somehow producing an everloving metric fuckload of power at an impossibly low cost.

Putting renewables on your home isn't about making money, it's about spending less, all the way down to spending nothing if possible. I know it can be hard to differentiate at times but there is a difference.
 
In almost every state you get a direct 1 to 1 credit for every KW/H you produce and put back into the grid, which includes fees and fuel sub-charges. This is true, again in almost every state, up until the point that you produce all of the electricity you use on a yearly basis.

Hey... I'll definitely look into that for my area here in Canada. Even a zero-balance means a net gain once the initial cost of the equipment is made back. Hey, does that mean they drop those connection fees as well? Like if your bill is $100, but $60 of that is miscellaneous fees and $40 in usage, will they buy $40 worth of power, or the full $100?

Still cool info either way. Thanks :thumbsup:
 
The point is lost on narrow-minded people; the little dinky birds that cats consumes in as you say far greater number don't get sliced and diced but locate a propeller driven hill where a raptor would glide waiting for dinner and it is a different story.

That's a good point, just like the bats I mentioned earlier. The article I'd read didn't go into the specifics of which types of birds were being affected.

If would seem there's some genuine controversy in regard to wind farms... there are some downsides to consider and it seems to be unusually difficult to get accurate details on the subject. :hmm:
 
But you have to make 3-5x more power than you're using just to break even. Your power bill is 60-70% "fees" (connection, etc.) and only a small portion is the actual electricity usage cost. They buy back at a lower rate than they charge you for consumption - if they will at all. But we're venturing into territory I'm less familiar with... I'll have to read up on "regular folk" who have successfully sold back to the power companies for more details.

Having your own Tesla bank would be a fantastic idea for some of those cities prone to rolling brown/blackouts. You'd have uninterrupted power, as well as a cleaner and more constant current for your electronics. Neighbours almost always frown on small wind generators mounted on houses. I guess they make noise? Off to youtube for an audio example...
Right now utilities are legally bound to buy back any power from solar, at fixed (and generous) rates. In fact, almost all solar installation designs I have checked in the last five or so years have been purely economic, meaning the electricity generated flows straight into the grid through a dedicated meter and the owner takes electricity as normal, through an unconnected meter. (As opposed to an installation where the locally generated electricity is available first to the owner, then any excess sold to the utility.). The owner trades simplicity and economic return for outage utility, and in times of outage has no more access to the electricity generated on his roof than anyone else.

Or you just pump water uphill. I'm not sure about the exact efficiency but you can make damn near any amount of storage you want.

But with modern monitoring and modern weather profiles we can make really really good estimates of energy production from renewables. That allows them to be ready to have other methods of generation spooled up when needed and shut down when not.
Yep. That is what I referenced earlier. It really doesn't matter how low the overall efficiency if the work is done with power that is otherwise wasted. TVA does that now wherever there is a handy unused mountain, as generating hydro power from a long drop is quite efficient. Also, long drop/high head hydro makes an excellent demand source, responding to demand surges even more quickly than do gas-fired boilers. And assuming the mountain isn't too high nor the storage reservoir too deep, the water need not be cold and/or deoxygenated to the point of being problematic.
 
Electric companies like the state to insure them against damage from net metering systems. The Arkansas state constitution prohibits the state from taking on the debts or liabilities of any private company. Because of this the state won't insure the utilities from damage so the utilities don't allow net metering systems.
 
Hey... I'll definitely look into that for my area here in Canada. Even a zero-balance means a net gain once the initial cost of the equipment is made back. Hey, does that mean they drop those connection fees as well? Like if your bill is $100, but $60 of that is miscellaneous fees and $40 in usage, will they buy $40 worth of power, or the full $100?

Still cool info either way. Thanks :thumbsup:

I have no idea about Canada but I have had customers have negative bills (again, they don't get a check they get credit for their next bill) throughout 6 or 7 months and through the winter months when you use more electricity than you produce those credits cover the balance.

It's definitely an investment, especially with the current tax credits in place (at least the US). Around here a system usually pays for itself in 5-7 years and the panels are guaranteed by the manufacturer for 25-30 years and in all reality barring physical damage they never break. Fun fact, the first solar cell ever made still works to this day. The inverter is the only thing you'll likely need to replace, some carry as long as a 15 year warranty, which is fairly cheap and easy especially if you have a central inverter.
 
There's around 200 wind turbines in my county, i can count over 50 just from our property at night. There are also a lot of solar panels showing up on farms as well, just single 15x15 feet panels.

jens-buettner-wind-turbines-with-red-marker-lights-turning-in-a-wind-park-near-kladrum.jpg


Some people have their panties in a twist because of the wind mills , the turbines don't bother me, there are lots of blink red lights in the sky at night, you gotta get within at least a km before you can hear them.

4899403555_38dfc92ca6.jpg
 
Electric companies like the state to insure them against damage from net metering systems. The Arkansas state constitution prohibits the state from taking on the debts or liabilities of any private company. Because of this the state won't insure the utilities from damage so the utilities don't allow net metering systems.

That is completely false. Edit: At least the part about net metering. I don't see how what potential damages you are implying needs to be insured.

http://programs.dsireusa.org/system/program/detail/536

http://www.entergy-arkansas.com/your_home/net_metering.aspx
 
The article I saw in the newspaper must have been about the municipal owned electric companies.
 
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