Blizzard admits Diablo III Auction House was a mistake (gold and RMAH)

[Craig234]

Where do these people exist? D3 is a joke, easiest game ever. People are leveling up in monster power 10 just to try to make it a challenge.

Inferno, sure, it was hard. It was supposed to be hard. Inferno didn't even exist in D2, so I am not sure how you can compare the two games. But D3 normal, nightmare, and hell are all perfectly doable with garbage random drops and no excessive farming, just the same as D2.

No game is hard, every game is easily beatable by anyone 'with skill'. Just ask internet experts who will assure you of that.

 

[Chiropteran]

No game is hard, every game is easily beatable by anyone 'with skill'. Just ask internet experts who will assure you of that.

Heh, true. But the point is, for the part of D2 & D3 that overlaps, Diablo 3 was perfect doable with normal drops without excessive grinding required.

Only the new hardest difficulty was tough to do without auction house farming. If you wanted the D2 experience, don't use the AH and stop after you beat Hell, simple enough IMO.

 

[Dumac]

D3 is a joke, easiest game ever.

Not without the AH it isn't. Have you even done a no AH run?

People are leveling up in monster power 10 just to try to make it a challenge.

Someone told me to try making a new char in MP10 and things would actually be easier drop-wise.

Inferno, sure, it was hard. It was supposed to be hard. Inferno didn't even exist in D2, so I am not sure how you can compare the two games. But D3 normal, nightmare, and hell are all perfectly doable with garbage random drops and no excessive farming, just the same as D2.

Players would be blissfully ignorant if inferno was simply a hidden difficulty they couldn't select, I suppose.

Inferno isn't magically harder, it is just a continuation of the difficulty spectrum. Gear quality continues to scale with inferno so it isn't like some fundamentally difficult places. With the AH, inferno is tackle-able. It is even easier to farm and produces better loot with NV.

But I would argue that d3 isn't really viable with just random drops. Like I said before, I was in hell with a 200dps weapon. It would take me forever to kill the most basic of enemies. Most of my gear was 15-20 levels behind me. I rarely, if ever, found upgrades.

The solution was supposedly crafting, but crafted stuff sucked. My 200dps weapon was actually crafted, big whoop. Before that, I had a 150 dps weapon.

Again, I don't think you are seeing things as they really are. Stop strawmanning people who dislike the AH as people who used 3rd-party sites. There are legitimate reasons to dislike the AH. Hell, even JW admitted it as shown in the OP.

 

[Dumac]

Heh, true. But the point is, for the part of D2 & D3 that overlaps, Diablo 3 was perfect doable with normal drops without excessive grinding required.

Only the new hardest difficulty was tough to do without auction house farming. If you wanted the D2 experience, don't use the AH and stop after you beat Hell, simple enough IMO.

Again this was not my experience, nor was it the experience of a lot of other players.

And again, D3 hell != D2 hell.

 

[Chiropteran]

Not without the AH it isn't. Have you even done a no AH run?

Yes I have, and it seems to contradict the rest of your post. I didn't have any problems at all until inferno.

Not saying nothing was hard, beliel has always been annoying and I died a fair share of times, but at no point did I feel that progress was impossible without trading for better gear.

Note that I did use the vendors in game.

 

[darkewaffle]

What about those who played D2 solo, and tried to do D3 the same but couldn't due to shitty drops?

Well maybe they should stick to more casual games like Farmville or Uno :awe:

 

[Dumac]

Yes I have, and it seems to contradict the rest of your post. I didn't have any problems at all until inferno.

Not saying nothing was hard, beliel has always been annoying and I died a fair share of times, but at no point did I feel that progress was impossible without trading for better gear.

Note that I did use the vendors in game.

Well I guess we'll just chalk it up to different experiences. Maybe we played at different patch points.

After a few more patches, I plan on returning to try a MP10 character. I'll see if anything changed by then.

Well maybe they should stick to more casual games like Farmville or Uno :awe:

lol ok, cause buying loot from the AH 5x as good as you can find in-game is so hardcore

 

[darkewaffle]

Not without the AH it isn't. Have you even done a no AH run?

Yes. I made it to 55 HC barbarian in A2 hell before I finally died even once. And this was last summer before the base game was made even potentially easier by the monster power mods lol.

Normal/Nightmare/Hell is very easy, and so was Diablo 2. The difference being, D2 stopped there (with the possible exception of Ubers and DClonee) so there was never any ramp up. But take your random drop equipped character and try to tackle uber Trist? Seems unlikely.

 

[Dumac]

Yes. I made it to 55 HC barbarian in A2 hell before I finally died even once.

Got a link to your char? I'm interested in seeing your gear, as my barb was around the same point when I gave up on my no AH run.

 

[Chiropteran]

Well I guess we'll just chalk it up to different experiences. Maybe we played at different patch points.

You were around at release right? Inferno mode diablo was killed 4 days after release. Nearly anyone who took a few "diablo sick days" was working on inferno a couple days after release.

It was hard, sure, but the players at that time didn't have anyone before them to feed them with drops, and yet almost everyone who tried was able to make it through the game, without the benefits of easy hand-me-down gear at that point. This was before anyone was farming over and over to sell gear, it was mostly just a leveling race at first.

 

[Texashiker]

I finally got an amazing drop, but instead of using it, I sold it on the gold AH(which sold for more), then sold gold for money on the RMAH and made $100 on the 1 item.

And that $100 is part of the problem.

Several years ago there was an article about people in Romania and China supporting their families through selling Diablo II items for US dollars.

The players worked in teams of 2, working 12 hour shifts on one computer.

The US dollar was so strong in the early 2000s, one good drop in diablo II could pay someone a weeks salary.

As for the OP, any time real money gets involved, the overall quality of the game goes downhill. Why play for fun when you can play to make money.

 

[Dumac]

You were around at release right? Inferno mode diablo was killed 4 days after release. Nearly anyone who took a few "diablo sick days" was working on inferno a couple days after release.

It was hard, sure, but the players at that time didn't have anyone before them to feed them with drops, and yet almost everyone who tried was able to make it through the game, without the benefits of easy hand-me-down gear at that point. This was before anyone was farming over and over to sell gear, it was mostly just a leveling race at first.

A lot of the initial clears were done with broken skills that were fixed a little whiles after.

That said, their gear was still probably better than mine. Maybe I was just unlucky, but I didn't find it satisfying to farm with no truly effective way to go about doing it.

Again, I've played all kinds of ARPGs and reached the endgame in all of them. D3 is the only one where I didn't get to the end solo, and as a result I stopped playing the game.

 

[BD2003]

Look on the bright side....they took gameplay that was fundamentally a waste of time, and made it so that people finally realize it.

D2 endgame: keep grinding the same stuff over and over to get items that make the same grind easier, but actually accomplishes nothing because the endgame is still a mindless never ending grind. Infinitely grinding 10% faster is still infinitely grinding.

D3 endgame: keep grinding the same stuff over and over to get items that make the same grind easier, until you realize that you can sell the item for real money. Game turns in to work instead of fun (even though I can hardly believe anyone finds endless grinding fun). At least you can cash out and get off the treadmill now.

Now take that money and go buy another game that isnt a waste of time. Or keep it and watch paint dry, which is just as entertaining as D2/3 endgame. The first runs through the game, exploring the skills, etc....D3 was a great game if all you expected was a solid 20-30 hours of fun. You should thank them they spared you the rest.

 

[smackababy]

Well I guess we'll just chalk it up to different experiences. Maybe we played at different patch points.

After a few more patches, I plan on returning to try a MP10 character. I'll see if anything changed by then.

They are working on revamping how legendaries and item drops in general work. Legendaries will be tied to the monster level they drop from. Meaning at 60, you can get every legendary in the game and it will be scaled for level 60s. They also talk about lowering overall item drops, but increasing the quality of those that do drop.

lol ok, cause buying loot from the AH 5x as good as you can find in-game is so hardcore

Except, you can find all of the items on the AH. You just didn't so you cry about it. If you want to be given all the best loot, you're playing the wrong game. I guess you're not playing, but you're still crying about it.

Everyone who says "Omg you have to use the AH because you can't find those items" needs to realize someone DID find those items. You have the ability to as well.

And of the guy saying you can do MP10 all the way to 60 solo, you can't. In Hell you have to turn down the difficulty unless you are a ranged character.

 

[Hacp]

Look on the bright side....they took gameplay that was fundamentally a waste of time, and made it so that people finally realize it.

D2 endgame: keep grinding the same stuff over and over to get items that make the same grind easier, but actually accomplishes nothing because the endgame is still a mindless never ending grind. Infinitely grinding 10% faster is still infinitely grinding.

D3 endgame: keep grinding the same stuff over and over to get items that make the same grind easier, until you realize that you can sell the item for real money. Game turns in to work instead of fun (even though I can hardly believe anyone finds endless grinding fun). At least you can cash out and get off the treadmill now.

D2 endgame was about trying out all sorts of cool builds. Items were used to facilitate that. The fun was in the planning and seeing how well you could follow the plan. Blizzard took that fun away with free respecs and a simplified skill tree.

Now take that money and go buy another game that isnt a waste of time. Or keep it and watch paint dry, which is just as entertaining as D2/3 endgame. The first runs through the game, exploring the skills, etc....D3 was a great game if all you expected was a solid 20-30 hours of fun. You should thank them they spared you the rest.

You are what's wrong with modern PC gaming. Real gamers like me don't want to consume a game like we consume movies. We want to fully invest in a game and play it for a long time. That is what made the original starcraft and diablo games so fun. Its your demographic that has ruined games like Diablo 3 for hardcore Diablo 2 players.

 

[Dumac]

Except, you can find all of the items on the AH. You just didn't so you cry about it.

Except a lot of the buyable 50s loot is high level 60+ loot with a reduced level modifier on it, so no I couldn't really find it.

If you want to be given all the best loot, you're playing the wrong game. I guess you're not playing, but you're still crying about it.

Where did I say I want to be given the best loot? No where, so stop putting words in my mouth. In fact, I said the direct opposite. All I want is to be able to find passable loot from drops. The super high-end stuff is a whole different game, but the stuff I found while playing I wouldn't call passable. And considering there is no good way to farm before endgame and that the AH has cheap gear 5x as good as anything I had ever found, I just gave up on the whole thing.

And of the guy saying you can do MP10 all the way to 60 solo, you can't. In Hell you have to turn down the difficulty unless you are a ranged character.

Oh, that sucks. Maybe I won't come back to D3 then...

 

[smackababy]

Where did I say I want to be given the best loot? No where, so stop putting words in my mouth. In fact, I said the direct opposite. All I want is to be able to find passable loot from drops. The super high-end stuff is a whole different game, but the stuff I found while playing I wouldn't call passable. And considering there is no good way to farm before endgame and that the AH has cheap gear 5x as good as anything I had ever found, I just gave up on the whole thing.

You are given the same chance as everyone else to find "viable" loot. You didn't put in enough to time to find that though.

Oh, that sucks. Maybe I won't come back to D3 then...

Well, you possible could, but you'd have to get lucky and get a few good drops. MP10 will 1 shot my monk, but I don't have any real gear on. Cain's Set (level 27) isn't the best for protection.

 

[Hacp]

You are given the same chance as everyone else to find "viable" loot. You didn't put in enough to time to find that though.

Therein lies the problem. The game became a game of loot and not one of character development. They turned the game into an MMO, but without the benefits of updated MMO content. Blizzard has stopped making games that they as developers would want to play, and started making games based on research on how to cash out.

 

[smackababy]

Therein lies the problem. The game became a game of loot and not one of character development. They turned the game into an MMO, but without the benefits of updated MMO content. Blizzard has stopped making games that they as developers would want to play, and started making games based on research on how to cash out.

Have you played any ARPG? They are ALL about loot. Character development? I can sum up the story of D1-3 in one sentence: Diablo bad, kill Diablo. If you went into that game expecting a rich story and deep character development, then YOU are the one to blame, not Blizzard.

The problem is people don't understand the genre and cry about it. For a company that makes games all of you dislike so much, you sure can't stop talking about them. Or buying them for that matter.

 

[Dumac]

Character development? I can sum up the story of D1-3 in one sentence: Diablo bad, kill Diablo. If you went into that game expecting a rich story and deep character development, then YOU are the one to blame, not Blizzard.

I think he meant character develop from an RPG perspective. As in, choosing skills to level up, stats, etc. Inherit character customization.

 

[BD2003]

D2 endgame was about trying out all sorts of cool builds. Items were used to facilitate that. The fun was in the planning and seeing how well you could follow the plan. Blizzard took that fun away with free respecs and a simplified skill tree.

The other way to look at it is that they freed you to experiment without the time suck of grinding. Every level you get multiple runes that might as well be entirely new skills. There's infinitely more variability than there was in D2. D2 punished experimentation by putting it behind a wall of grinding, and forcing you to min/max your powers by stacking points. The new system is a vast improvement, bringing that fun of experimentation to everyone instead of just the few with hundreds of hours to waste.

You are what's wrong with modern PC gaming. Real gamers like me don't want to consume a game like we consume movies. We want to fully invest in a game and play it for a long time. That is what made the original starcraft and diablo games so fun. Its your demographic that has ruined games like Diablo 3 for hardcore Diablo 2 players.

No one has any claim to what it means to be a real gamer. Save that BS. I'm enjoying every second I put in and continue to put into D3, and love it for how much fun you can have without the grind. Grinding is a horrible, horrible game mechanic. It just serves to alienate people who have jobs and/or a desire to do anything else but play that one game. It arbitrarily locks content behind a boring timesuck. Grinding is by definition not fun or interesting. No one should have to or even WANT to tolerate that in order to see everything a game has to offer. Starcraft never required you to grind in order to try a new strategy. You didnt need to grind out new guns in CS, UT or Quake.

 

[smackababy]

The other way to look at it is that they freed you to experiment without the time suck of grinding. Every level you get multiple runes that might as well be entirely new skills. There's infinitely more variability than there was in D2. D2 punished experimentation by putting it behind a wall of grinding, and forcing you to min/max your powers by stacking points. The new system is a vast improvement, bringing that fun of experimentation to everyone instead of just the few with hundreds of hours to waste.



No one has any claim to what it means to be a real gamer. Save that BS. I'm enjoying every second I put in and continue to put into D3, and love it for how much fun you can have without the grind. Grinding is a horrible, horrible game mechanic. It just serves to alienate people who have jobs and/or a desire to do anything else but play that one game. It arbitrarily locks content behind a boring timesuck. Grinding is by definition not fun or interesting. No one should have to or even WANT to tolerate that in order to see everything a game has to offer. Starcraft never required you to grind in order to try a new strategy. You didnt need to grind out new guns in CS, UT or Quake.

It is funny that you say this, because I have yet to get a single reason not allowing respecs does not punish players. When PoE was coming out everyone was raving about the no respec "feature" and I asked numerous times how it is not punishing players.

 

[lupi]

It seem to me they took the bad part of wow loot (huge stat balance variations, mediocre item level drop per char level, counter intuitive stat groupings etc...) without balancing it out from the good part (item sets with stat synergy and set bonuses).

 

[BD2003]

It is funny that you say this, because I have yet to get a single reason not allowing respecs does not punish players. When PoE was coming out everyone was raving about the no respec "feature" and I asked numerous times how it is not punishing players.

There is a very vocal pool of hardcore players that want games to be inaccessible. Not necessarily challenging, but difficult, arcane, impenetrable and punishing. That wall weeds out the undeserving, and gives those who put in the time, effort and/or money a special experience. I get that. But that describes a niche game, and blizzard makes anything but niche games. They clearly went out of their way to design an experience for everyone. That necessarily comes at the expense of "the chosen few", the outcry was predictable. They seemingly tried to have it both ways, but that's a fool's dream. I personally find D3 to be ten times the game that D2 was, for those very same reasons that cause the vocal minority to cry.

 

[Hacp]

But that describes a niche game, and blizzard makes anything but niche games. They clearly went out of their way to design an experience for everyone.

Yes, blizzard did stop designing games that they themselves wanted to play and started designing games for the masses.