Blizzard admits Diablo III Auction House was a mistake (gold and RMAH)

[Craig234]

I explained how the rmah is a problem.

 

[Anonemous]

yea and the people running bots could keep profiting from the RMAH....

 

[waggy]

RMAH was a joke. Drops in the game sucked so fucking bad. 15 minutes of looking on the RMAH you could find upgrades for fairly cheap.

It seemed like they were driving you to the RMAH.

the game is beyond broken. the drops are just so bad and hasen't gotten better. I finally got tired of the game and uninstalled it.

I had Diablo 2 and expansions on my machine up until a few months ago and wish i didn't uninstall it

 

[MikeyLSU]

was hard for me to keep playing with the AH. I got to a point where gear needed to be so good to advance and I finally got an amazing drop, but instead of using it, I sold it on the gold AH(which sold for more), then sold gold for money on the RMAH and made $100 on the 1 item.

After that, I have never played again. I would never advance because I could never keep an item worth that much real money and couldn't advance without it. So I gave up on the game.

 

[Zenoth]

Meh, the RMAH has never been that big of a problem for me.

My main issues with Diablo III reside in the actual game-play. There's a definite lack of enemy variety, items aren't as randomized as Diablo II's and their stats are mostly boring. The lack of manual stats allocation, the lack of manual potions (never really liked that automatic health globes drop system), the generally-short game, the underwhelming Act IV, the repetitive environments of Act III, the linearity of Act II. The general boring story, the sometimes horrible voice acting (female Monk, seriously, why). Also, the skills system and on-demand skills switching without having to create a new character. The fact that you only need one character of each class if you want to try everything there is to try, and that's about it. No such thing as a 'Throw Barb', or a 'Fire Sorc', all characters, all players can be what they want to be, permanently or temporarily at any time, which itself is a system that to me removed the "distinguished" builds that could have been unique to your character (and having to create a second Barb if you wanted that one to be focused on a specific set of skills, for example).

I'm sure I could keep going for other aspects of the game other than the RMAH which to me contributed to uninstalling the game. As a matter of fact, you'd put a RMAH in Path of Exile and I'd still play PoE anyway since its game-play is generally awesome (still hate the animations but that's beyond the point, point being that D3's RMAH wasn't that big of a problem to me).

 

[acheron]

the RMAH is irrelevant. Jay Wilson is right that the gold AH was the main problem.

 

[Fallen Kell]

My friends who play now essentially do not play the game - they sit on massive pools of cash, and they log in simply to go to the Auction House and buy/sell stuff to continuously make more money. Its essentially a video game form of day trading...

Sounds like your friends would love Eve Online.

 

[magomago]

I was against the RMAH from the time I heard it during development and it's a primary reason I decided to wait to get the game until discounted.

It creates harmful incentives for the devs, including the itemization being balanced for the auctions instead of for playing without the auctions.

No, the RMAH doesn't. If you think the problem is itemization is balanced around the RMAH you are mistaken. The best items are found on the gold AH PERIOD because of the hard price cap on RMAH; anything in between can generally be found on both Auction Houses.

Itemization may be a problem, but its not the RMAH that is doing it. The game has a lot of other issues - from bad story, to repetitive enemies...people have already mentioned it. RMAH didn't touch any of these.

Regardless of the existence of RMAH, farmers will still farm, bots will still bot, and the market will get pushed underground; revenues will go completely to the illicit traders just as it currently does in World of Warcraft or any MMO.

By making it legitimate (and capping the sale price) Blizzard is essentially taking a cut from a market that has always existed and will continue to exist. In fact, 3rd party dealers still exist for Diablo3, but their ultimate cut is a little smaller.

A better way to put it would be like this: even if RMAH didn't exist, we'd still face the exact same dilemma.

 

[zebrax2]

The AH would have been alright if there was
1.) An effective gold sink
2.) An item sink
3.) Good drops so that people will depend less on the AH

The things that i think they should do beside from what I've written above
1.) Make some kind of requirement when changing skill (e.g. you need to craft an x item) or make it so that it at least require a fee
2.) Reduce the necessity for LOH or LS
3.) One new place to level that is randomly generated every time you log-out just to break the monotony of grinding ACT 3 repeatedly

 

[Craig234]

The AH would have been alright if there was...
3.) Good drops so that people will depend less on the AH

Let me elaborate ln my point about the problem with the auctions.

Here are two models for item balance.

1. All or nearly all items the players uses, he gets from his own playing. The odds of a drop are at one level for that design.

2. The player has access to items from a million players playing in an auction house.

Now, of course the increase in available items in #2 is reduced by the fact that a million players also can get those items - but still, there will be all kinds of 'farmers' selling.

So, for anything like the same balance of available items, the drop rate for the player has to be slashed in #2.

That's not just a 'take it or leave it' auction feature, that's incenting, basically forcing a massive change to the single player game's itemization.

Add to that the financial incentive for Blizzard to want people to use the rmah they profit from, and it's an added pressure to reduce itemization to get players to buy in rmah.

So you your suggestion that 'the auction would be ok if they just had high itemization' is not very practical because that would greatly mess up their game balance.

That's why I objected to the rmah largely, with some concern about the impact of the gold auction as well.

Now, they may have been able to do what you suggest with a game mode of a 'non-auction' if not 'non-trade' play mode where itemization could be higher.

But that would probably increase player dissatisfaction when they see how much worse drops are in the auction game, so Blizzard doesn't want to do that.

 

[Craig234]

No, the RMAH doesn't. If you think the problem is itemization is balanced around the RMAH you are mistaken. The best items are found on the gold AH PERIOD because of the hard price cap on RMAH; anything in between can generally be found on both Auction Houses.

My objection to the rmah is how it pits the financial interests of Blizzard against the interests of the player who doesn't want to use the rmah.

I'm open to the possibility that the gold auction was actually a bigger problem than the rmah on this, and would object to that as well, but there is that issue of the Blizzard cut.

Itemization may be a problem, but its not the RMAH that is doing it. The game has a lot of other issues - from bad story, to repetitive enemies...people have already mentioned it. RMAH didn't touch any of these.

Neither did I. My concern with the auctions is not changed whether those other things are terrible or very good.

Regardless of the existence of RMAH, farmers will still farm, bots will still bot, and the market will get pushed underground; revenues will go completely to the illicit traders just as it currently does in World of Warcraft or any MMO.

By making it legitimate (and capping the sale price) Blizzard is essentially taking a cut from a market that has always existed and will continue to exist. In fact, 3rd party dealers still exist for Diablo3, but their ultimate cut is a little smaller.

There are differences between the black market and the Blizzard market.

For one, I suspect that a Blizzard market will get far, far higher player use than the black market. Reports say 'basically every player used the Blizzard auctions'.

I never used the black market in Diablo II and I'd say many didn't.

Second, Blizzard has options to address or reduce the black market if they wanted to do them that they lose with the Blizzard market.

Third, Blizzard has a financial incentive to screw up and drastically lower the itemization with the rmah in place that it does not have with the black market.

In practice the gold market may cause the same problem, but I don't like that Blizzard has incentive to do it financially.

A better way to put it would be like this: even if RMAH didn't exist, we'd still face the exact same dilemma.

I'm open to clarification but I prefer what I said to that.

Maybe you're right and Blizzard totally ignored the financial incentive, and the problem was only auctions, and the rmah didn't do more than the gold auction.

OK, maybe that's the case, but it still creates that incentive and 'looks bad'.

Bottom line: the more trading that goes on, the lower the itemization has to be compared to offering a balance for non-trading players.

I'm open to the idea of different models. Maybe I just don't like trading and other players love it and its fine for Blizzard to do that.

The possibility of that is why I give less weight to the gold ah even if it's the bigger problem - though player feedback is suggesting they don't like it it seems.

Rather, it's what seems like a money grab that incents Blizzard to embrace the low itemization, rather than the priority of good gamplay, I don't like.

Why should Blizzard care much about the preferences of the non-trading player when they get paid by their cut not to?

 

[lupi]

AH was only such a facor because item drops were done rather poorly. Kinda funny now that many of the item problems are being fixed cause they needed to simplify/improve the system for the console release.

 

[Craig234]

AH was only such a facor because item drops were done rather poorly.

They're related.

AH requires reducing drops.

 

[shortylickens]

So glad I didnt randomly drop 60 freakin dollars on this game.

 

[StrangerGuy]

AH was only such a facor because item drops were done rather poorly. Kinda funny now that many of the item problems are being fixed cause they needed to simplify/improve the system for the console release.

The root problem has nothing to drop rates per se. It's just the whole item system is so wholly one-dimensional "DPS DPS and DPS".

 

[desura]

I never used the auction house.

I also only played through the game 1.5 times.

I mean, if you think about it, it's just an arbitrary swarm game not that different from like space invaders or whatever other arcade games out there.

 

[Agent11]

... If they killed or nerfed the gold AH leaving the RMAH, that would look pretty bad.

 

[shortylickens]

I never used the auction house.

I also only played through the game 1.5 times.

I mean, if you think about it, it's just an arbitrary swarm game not that different from like space invaders or whatever other arcade games out there.

Most of the love came from random loot and making good combinations of bonuses to be super powerful. When Blizzard screwed with that formula the majority of the player base got angry.

Personally I prefer Titan Quest since you can combine specialties and make many combinations. Exploring all of them is much more interesting than farming for that one perfect sword.

 

[waggy]

Most of the love came from random loot and making good combinations of bonuses to be super powerful. When Blizzard screwed with that formula the majority of the player base got angry.

this. they screwed up the formula so bad its unplayable. In D2 there was so many combo's to try it was fun. also i could get on and play for 1-2 hours and get decent drops. was it always something useful? no but i had fun


Fun is really lacking in D3

So glad I didnt randomly drop 60 freakin dollars on this game.

I didn't either! woot for free games!

 

[thm1223]

I was severely bummed by the release of Diablo III. So much so that I never even tried playing it. And this is coming from someone who puts Diablo II in his top 5 games of all time.

 

[JamesV]

I put about 120 hours into Diablo 3, before I uninstalled it. Got my $60 worth, but I'll never install it again, like the way I play Diablo 2 almost yearly. Completely ruined franchise imo... I highly doubt they will ever go back to what made Diablo 2 great.

I NEVER found an upgrade end game in Diablo 3; everything bought from the AH. Compare this to Diablo 2 - if you put in a good solid month of playing, you could have some really nice gear. You might not have Stone of Jordans and Zod runes, but you could and did find lots of nice items, if you simply put in the time.

But, if they made Diablo 3 loot similar to Diablo 2, the gold AH would be deserted, and the only things on the RMAH would be highly sought after rare items. To me, it is obvious that Blizzard nerfed loot drops to the point where they will make the most money; I don't think any of them can be that stupid, that they believed so much of Diablo 2 was 'broken', from the obvious proof - millions of devoted fans.

Path of Exile is the closest thing to a true Diablo 2 sequel. And it is completely free too.

 

[Jaskalas]

My objection to the rmah is how it pits the financial interests of Blizzard against the interests of the player who doesn't want to use the rmah.

I'm open to the possibility that the gold auction was actually a bigger problem than the rmah on this, and would object to that as well, but there is that issue of the Blizzard cut.

I'd avoid the RMAH like the plague, but gold directly translates game time into items via farming gold. Since we all acquire gold over time, but generally not good items... the gold AH is the prime solution for itemization, instead of the item hunt. It's other people doing the hunting for you. IMO, more people are willing to bridge that gap with gold than real money. Especially when the game is throwing gold at you. Accessibility makes gold the bigger issue.


I feel compelled to clarify that I agree with your logic, and your statement. I suggest we're speaking of two potentially complimentary things.

• Player perspective / incentive
• Blizzard's perspective / incentive

I was touching on the player's perspective of the item hunt being ripped from the game and placed on the AH. It sort of kills the experience. I agree with you that with the RMAH Blizzard has a conflict of interest.

Though I might argue if the game tanks, and no one buys an expansion... the RMAH will yield them very little if no one likes the game. They still have reason to fix the player experience...

 

[Dumac]

They're related.

Of course they are related, but having an AH doesn't have to mean balancing the drop rate around the AH.

They're related.

AH requires reducing drops.

I don't agree. You could make decent enough stuff drop for solo players so that they can complete the game solo if they wish.

This would just push the bar of 'good' equipment higher, and then the stuff on the AH can be above-and-beyond whats necessary to beat the game.

 

[Dumac]

The root problem has nothing to drop rates per se. It's just the whole item system is so wholly one-dimensional "DPS DPS and DPS".

I think the one-dimensional item system is one problem, and the drop rate is another. They are both independent 'root' problems if you will.

I never used the auction house.

I also only played through the game 1.5 times .

By that do you mean you only got halfway through nightmare? Or that you got one character to inferno and another to nightmare/hell?

the RMAH is irrelevant. Jay Wilson is right that the gold AH was the main problem.

Yeah, all the D3 players I know avoid the RMAH but use the GAH religiously.

 

[ImpulsE69]

If the drop rate was decent, the need for the AH and prices would go down, so yes, drop rates are a key to the problem.