Blacks Not Allowed to be Conservative?

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
On top of that successful groups often play both sides of the fence... Special interest groups and lobbyists often allign themselves with both parties and are deeply entrenched on both sides of the political spectrum.. I'm not talking about groups like the NRA or Greenpeace, more like AIPAC, Business Interests, Hispanic Organizations and many others..

It does not serve black interests to only allign themselves with one party, not doing so is harmful. Acts like these show the difficulty they have moving outside the accepted norms

Exactly! That is what has been in the back of my head since I read that story. I just couldn't get it out.

What good does it serve the black community to walk in lock step with the democratic party? If they express an unwaivering allegiance to the Dems then what do the Dems have to do to keep that loyalty? Nothing. And if they aren't even going to give the republicans a shot then what do the republicans have to do for them? Nothing. So what do they get for all of this? Nothing apparently.

So why continue on this path? Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result?

 

[Starbuck1975]

What good does it serve the black community to walk in lock step with the democratic party? If they express an unwaivering allegiance to the Dems then what do the Dems have to do to keep that loyalty? Nothing.

Alot of it has to do with the recognized political leadership of the black community...while people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson may not speak for all black people, they certainly command a great deal of respect in black communities, particular poverty stricken inner city neighborhoods...their political success, like many politicians, is that they tell people what they want to hear...not what they need to hear.

This is why people like Bill Cosby, who preach independence and accountability for the black community is largely dismissed and ignored.

I am really interested in seeing the political path for Obama...he seems like a very intelligent, well spoken, honest and intelligent politician...he certainly has the potential to become the first black President...and he doesn't seem to buy into the whole race card blame game, but is willing to recognize that the problem is a balance between the inherent racism in our society, and the failure of the black community to pursue initiatives that would help them rise above it.

 

[speedstream5621]

You're surprised? This is liberalism....

 

[BlancoNino]

I don't think political parties should do anything for any certain "groups". All men are created equal and politicians should do so. The laws are the same for men and women, blacks and whites, poor and rich, etc. Special interest groups that thrive on people not following the laws or any sort of discrimination only deepen the wedge between the two they're trying to work things out with. Not to mention the incentives activists have to keep in power make sure that things never get fully worked out.


This is not to say that racism and sexism aren't real problems, only that politicians and activist groups do not have the answer.

 

[Jhhnn]

So, uhh, what is it that Repubs offer to blacks, even as those same repubs play white fear into electoral victory? Tokenism?

Having a few blacks in high visibility position won't feed your family, but getting into the previously all white civil service, the fire dept, or the police dept on the basis of affirmative action definitely will...

Talking about education won't get you one, but having federally subsidized loans will help you get one...

Having the desire and the loan to get an education won't get you one if there's no daycare for your children...

Having an education and a decent job won't get you a decent place to live if you're red-lined out of white neighborhoods...

Having theoretically integrated schools won't get your kids an education if the local schoolboard won't allocate money to schools in black neighborhoods...

Democrats have delivered what they promised, even if that's been diluted by opposition form the other side...

Not to mention the effect of history on people's attitudes-

Strom Thurmond led the migration of former dixiecrats into the welcoming arms of the Repub party...

Reagan shamelessly played the race card, denouncing welfare queens every chance he got, praising Jeff Davis when he spoke at the mythical home of the KKK, Stone Mountain, Georgia...

Willie Horton had nothing to do with race, of course.... neither does "tough on crime" or "family values", either... barring ex-felons from voting doesn't disenfranchise black males disproportionately, either...

Can't figure it out? Ask Haley Barbour why he didn't denounce the support of the CCC when he ran for governor of Mississippi- maybe you'll get an answer you can understand...

Comparing other ethnicities to blacks is an interesting situation. Try looking at it like this. In the Jim Crow South, blacks had to come to the back door- just the way it was... part of the culture. Poles, Irish, Italians, even Native Americans and Hispanics could come to the front door, though... Why? Because they're not black, that's why....

The more thngs change, the more they stay the same sometimes...

 

[slyedog]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
So, uhh, what is it that Repubs offer to blacks, even as those same repubs play white fear into electoral victory? Tokenism?

Having a few blacks in high visibility position won't feed your family, but getting into the previously all white civil service, the fire dept, or the police dept on the basis of affirmative action definitely will...

Talking about education won't get you one, but having federally subsidized loans will help you get one...

Having the desire and the loan to get an education won't get you one if there's no daycare for your children...

Having an education and a decent job won't get you a decent place to live if you're red-lined out of white neighborhoods...

Having theoretically integrated schools won't get your kids an education if the local schoolboard won't allocate money to schools in black neighborhoods...

Democrats have delivered what they promised, even if that's been diluted by opposition form the other side...

Not to mention the effect of history on people's attitudes-

Strom Thurmond led the migration of former dixiecrats into the welcoming arms of the Repub party...

Reagan shamelessly played the race card, denouncing welfare queens every chance he got, praising Jeff Davis when he spoke at the mythical home of the KKK, Stone Mountain, Georgia...

Willie Horton had nothing to do with race, of course.... neither does "tough on crime" or "family values", either... barring ex-felons from voting doesn't disenfranchise black males disproportionately, either...

Can't figure it out? Ask Haley Barbour why he didn't denounce the support of the CCC when he ran for governor of Mississippi- maybe you'll get an answer you can understand...

Comparing other ethnicities to blacks is an interesting situation. Try looking at it like this. In the Jim Crow South, blacks had to come to the back door- just the way it was... part of the culture. Poles, Irish, Italians, even Native Americans and Hispanics could come to the front door, though... Why? Because they're not black, that's why....

The more thngs change, the more they stay the same sometimes...

===================================================

dont know if you are too young to remember or old and senile. but it is 2005 today. not 1960. today in the south, the black people are advancing faster than the white man. and they should because of the past. today the black man is advancing on his own and does his own thinking. but the "nagers" who come in all colors wants to discredit a black man when he thinks on his own. yes times are changing and they are not staying the same.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
So, uhh, what is it that Repubs offer to blacks, even as those same repubs play white fear into electoral victory? Tokenism?

Having a few blacks in high visibility position won't feed your family, but getting into the previously all white civil service, the fire dept, or the police dept on the basis of affirmative action definitely will...

Talking about education won't get you one, but having federally subsidized loans will help you get one...

Having the desire and the loan to get an education won't get you one if there's no daycare for your children...

Having an education and a decent job won't get you a decent place to live if you're red-lined out of white neighborhoods...

Having theoretically integrated schools won't get your kids an education if the local schoolboard won't allocate money to schools in black neighborhoods...

Democrats have delivered what they promised, even if that's been diluted by opposition form the other side...

Not to mention the effect of history on people's attitudes-

Strom Thurmond led the migration of former dixiecrats into the welcoming arms of the Repub party...

Reagan shamelessly played the race card, denouncing welfare queens every chance he got, praising Jeff Davis when he spoke at the mythical home of the KKK, Stone Mountain, Georgia...

Willie Horton had nothing to do with race, of course.... neither does "tough on crime" or "family values", either... barring ex-felons from voting doesn't disenfranchise black males disproportionately, either...

Can't figure it out? Ask Haley Barbour why he didn't denounce the support of the CCC when he ran for governor of Mississippi- maybe you'll get an answer you can understand...

Comparing other ethnicities to blacks is an interesting situation. Try looking at it like this. In the Jim Crow South, blacks had to come to the back door- just the way it was... part of the culture. Poles, Irish, Italians, even Native Americans and Hispanics could come to the front door, though... Why? Because they're not black, that's why....

The more thngs change, the more they stay the same sometimes...

Another good post by Jhhnn. :thumbsup:

Here is another slice of southern history many suburban white people do not know about. Now they can finally know for the first time in their covenent controlled lives where the phrase "Drug crazed N!@@3*" comes from and who made them that way.

 

[BoberFett]

The modern American liberal makes me sick to my stomach. This is why you lost the last election. You preach tolerance, but demonstrate hate. At least with conservatives, you know where you stand.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
The modern American liberal makes me sick to my stomach. This is why you lost the last election. You preach tolerance, but demonstrate hate. At least with conservatives, you know where you stand.

With Jesus?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Unfortunately, many of you are so ignorant of American history that it's difficult if not impossible for you to comprehend the animosity that many blacks have towards Republicans AND Democrats.

Truman (and others) redeemed the Democratic party for black Americans. No such redemption has taken place for Republicans b/c the "Party of Lincoln" has minimal relevance to the current Republican party (particularly in the South).

I speak from personal experience b/c I was a young, black (enough) Republican during my high school and early college years. It didn't take long to realize that money and intelligence do not matter if the packaging is different. From the early 90s on the national Republican party has become more and more a reflection of the radicals and not the underlying principles that being a Republican used to entail.

I find it easy to be (sorta) Republican in the Northeast and California (granted I'm usually in the Bay Area). But I left the GOP altogether in the late 90s and haven't looked back. Obviously, there's no reason to register Democrat b/c in my current state (NC), many of them are just as retarded as the Republicans.

John McWhorter and Glenn Loury are noted nonideological commentators on race and politics in America. They tell the truth but don't shroud in some BS agenda advanced by partisan politicians and their hacks. Blacks are indeed not only allowed but love being conservative. Many of us just have no intentions of being tokens for the GOP to trot out from time to time.

GOP convention blacks to be "seen but rarely heard"

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: BoberFett
The modern American liberal makes me sick to my stomach. This is why you lost the last election. You preach tolerance, but demonstrate hate. At least with conservatives, you know where you stand.

With Jesus?

Buhahaha. Spot on. But not any old Jesus, THEIR Jesus.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Many of us just have no intentions of being tokens for the GOP to trot out from time to time.

Much better to be a token for the Democrats. :roll:

Honestly, neither party seems to have the best interest of blacks in mind. Many Republicans simply don't care, and Democrats would rather keep blacks where they are, and part of their constituency. Elevating the status of Blacks might cost Democrats votes, and they can't have that. From my point of view, blacks in this country would probably do best voting for the Green party.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: BoberFett
The modern American liberal makes me sick to my stomach. This is why you lost the last election. You preach tolerance, but demonstrate hate. At least with conservatives, you know where you stand.

With Jesus?

Buhahaha. Spot on. But not any old Jesus, THEIR Jesus.

At least it's the devil you know...

 

[Starbuck1975]

Having a few blacks in high visibility position won't feed your family, but getting into the previously all white civil service, the fire dept, or the police dept on the basis of affirmative action definitely will...

Having blacks in highly visibile government positions, or other career fields, establishes positive role models for black communities, and erodes at the notion that discrimination continues to maintain glass ceilings for minorities...dismissing successful black political conservatives or corporate leaders as "Oreo" cookies certainly does nothing to end the cycle.

Affirmative action is an extension of self imposed segregation, because it suggests that minorities cannot achieve career success on the merits of their own credentials...the only way to end discrimination is to promote a truly color blind society...affirmative action counters that objective.

Having the desire and the loan to get an education won't get you one if there's no daycare for your children...

Educating people so that they do not have children prior to having the means to support them would certainly eliminate this concern.

Having an education and a decent job won't get you a decent place to live if you're red-lined out of white neighborhoods...

Having an education and a decent job as a white person doesn't guarantee you a decent place to live...the current housing market has taken care of that.

Poles, Irish, Italians, even Native Americans and Hispanics could come to the front door, though... Why? Because they're not black, that's why....

Interesting...as the grandson of Italian immigrants, I can tell you stories of the experiences my grandfather had when he arrived in this country...he certainly wasn't invited "through the front door" because he spoke a different language, was a bit darker then the white people already in America, and came from a different culture.

Having theoretically integrated schools won't get your kids an education if the local schoolboard won't allocate money to schools in black neighborhoods...

Not every white neighborhood has a private school quality school system...there are plenty of rural school districts that provide limited opportunities to their students...the greatest factors that promotes education is quality teachers and encouragement from parents at home...hard for schools to attract quality teachers when those teachers live in fear of their students...hard for kids to receive the encouragement they require when their parents are largely absent as role models, and the community fails to provide other positive role models in their place.

Democrats have delivered what they promised, even if that's been diluted by opposition form the other side...

Jhnn, you wrote a well thought out and articulate discussion for your side of the debate, but it is still a bit one sided...America certainly has a history of discrimination, and I don't think any reasonable person can argue that blacks no longer face cultural obstacles...they continue to exist in this country...however, what many liberals, and some black communities, fail to admit or accept is that the cultural dynamics of poverty stricken black communities also contribute to perpetuating the cycle of discrimination...it is no longer a white problem...it is not solely a black problem...but we continue to frame the discussion as black and white, and as such, we will fail to resolve the problem.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

you know what i'm sick of people blaming Republicans or Democrats for the troubles that black people face today. neither group is going to help lift black people out of poverty, they have to do it themselves. i'm all for the government helping out black communities by providing better schools and teachers and things of that nature. but that is where i draw the line.

black people as a whole have got to start demanding better of themselves if they want to break out of poverty. so many minorities have immigrated to this country and worked themselves up from the lowest levels of society, yet the black community has still not been able to do so. i say it's high time we stop blaming the politicians for their problems.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Many of us just have no intentions of being tokens for the GOP to trot out from time to time.

Much better to be a token for the Democrats. :roll:

Honestly, neither party seems to have the best interest of blacks in mind. Many Republicans simply don't care, and Democrats would rather keep blacks where they are, and part of their constituency. Elevating the status of Blacks might cost Democrats votes, and they can't have that. From my point of view, blacks in this country would probably do best voting for the Green party.

Why quote part of my post and then misrepresent it's meaning? One could argue (with a lot of merit) that Democrats haven't been the BEST friend to black people. But it's easy to see how many blacks favor an occasionl friend over never friend.

 

[zendari]

How many blacks did Clinton put in his cabinet?

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: zendari
How many blacks did Clinton put in his cabinet?

It doesn't matter, he was the first "black" President.



I think Starbuck1975 brought up some interesting and important points. This issue won't be resolved until both sides admit that race/color doesn't matter and quit playing the race games.

 

[piasabird]

Democrats are just a bunch of racists. They prove this over and over. They really dont care about minorities they just want all minorities to be Democrats. Very undemocratic.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Yassuh, Yassuh

:laugh:

 

[RightIsWrong]

Can a Mod end this freaking flame-bait troll thread already? Or better yet, can the people posting in it actually post something of substance that can be debated in a rational, logical manner instead of with insults and emotional diatribes that get all of us absolutely nowhere?

 

[Bumrush99]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Can a Mod end this freaking flame-bait troll thread already? Or better yet, can the people posting in it actually post something of substance that can be debated in a rational, logical manner instead of with insults and emotional diatribes that get all of us absolutely nowhere?

Your name is flamebait. There is NO justification for throwing oreo cookies at a professional African American that doesn't fit the typical mold of how he should act. Care to dispute that?

 

[Medicine Bear]

Back where I grew up I caught the same sh1t because after high school I joined the USMC, then when I got out I went to college. Whenever I was visiting at home and saw my old "friends" I was constantly called an Uncle Tom. Heaven forbid a black man, or in my case 1/2 black man, ever try to make something of himself.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Can a Mod end this freaking flame-bait troll thread already? Or better yet, can the people posting in it actually post something of substance that can be debated in a rational, logical manner instead of with insults and emotional diatribes that get all of us absolutely nowhere?

Your name is flamebait. There is NO justification for throwing oreo cookies at a professional African American that doesn't fit the typical mold of how he should act. Care to dispute that?

Sure I do.

First off, you assume that my name is derived from a political party association and completely ignore the possibility that it could be in reference to what I believe to be the perception of Right and Wrong in society as a whole. For all you know, I am an anarchist or a pyschology "student" that can't quite come to grips with the concept of everything that we are told is good or right is, in fact, good or right. Just food for thought.

Secondly, I do not condone nor think that the actions of those that were involved in the aforementioned incident are the proper way to go about handling a dispute or perceived dispute with the political beliefs of the Lt. Gov. They could have, just as easily, called press conferences or talked to reporters about their issues with him. I also don't think that they have any power/control over what some blogger in NY is doing even though the OP tries to imply as much. However, their goal was accomplished and it has brought attention to this person and to their group/cause.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Link

Black Democratic leaders in Maryland say that racially tinged attacks against Lt. Gov. Michael S. Steele in his bid for the U.S. Senate are fair because he is a conservative Republican.

Such attacks against the first black man to win a statewide election in Maryland include pelting him with Oreo cookies during a campaign appearance, calling him an "Uncle Tom" and depicting him as a black-faced minstrel on a liberal Web log.

Operatives for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC) also obtained a copy of his credit report -- the only Republican candidate so targeted.

But black Democrats say there is nothing wrong with "pointing out the obvious."

"There is a difference between pointing out the obvious and calling someone names," said a campaign spokesman for Kweisi Mfume, a Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate and former president of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

State Sen. Lisa A. Gladden, a black Baltimore Democrat, said she does not expect her party to pull any punches, including racial jabs at Mr. Steele, in the race to replace retiring Democratic U.S. Sen. Paul S. Sarbanes.

"Party trumps race, especially on the national level," she said. "If you are bold enough to run, you have to take whatever the voters are going to give you. It's democracy, perhaps at its worse, but it is democracy."

Wow... just... wow. I just don't know what to say. I just don't get it. On the one hand, when asked why blacks so overwhelmingly vote democrat, I see blacks say they are individuals and capable of thinking for themselves. And then you see this... A black man who truly does think for himself and this is what happens.

"Because he is a conservative, he is different than most public blacks, and he is different than most people in our community," she said. "His politics are not in the best interest of the masses of black people."

So does that mean that all black people are the same?

I just don't get it. Pathetic is the only word that comes to mind.

So tell me why is it that this person depicts a black person who thinks for himself, but the blacks who disagree with him based on his political affliations are some how not thinking for themselves? Appease me please