Black Viper is back

[forrestroche]

Originally posted by: Fresh Daemon
Why does he think turning Automatic Updates off is a good idea?

Let's be careful about not spreading misinformation.

I hope this was just an oversight on your part. I am all for criticism, but not for lying about people to exagerrate their perceived defects. This is the FIRST THING that black viper says about Automatic Updates:

"I highly recommend you DO NOT disable this function."

THAT is more than a little different than saying "he think turning Automatic Updates off is a good idea..."

 

[forrestroche]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Last time I looked at it he was recommending a bunch of stuff that was just silly. He didn't explain things properly, a nd made it seem like his suggestions were the best thing to do.

It's just bad documentation, and I can definitely blame him for that.

Direct quote and the header from the first page on tweaking XP:

"Black Viper's Top tweaks for a much faster PC
The following is what I do directly after a clean install of Windows XP. This does not mean that everything I do will work for you. Keeping that in mind and ensure you are fully aware of the risks of tweaking your system before doing so."

Black Viper "made it seem like his suggestions were the best thing to do."? Not sure that's an accurate characterization.

He also suggests creating different services profiles - one being the default settings so if you have problems it's not problem to restore them.

That should be enough to get me banned I guess.

 

[KoolDrew]

Blackvipers site has gotten a little better over time with his warnings and stuff, but it is still just filled with false information and poor advice.

 

[Fresh Daemon]

I am all for criticism, but not for lying about people to exagerrate their perceived defects. This is the FIRST THING that black viper says about Automatic Updates:

"I highly recommend you DO NOT disable this function."

That's still bad advice. As far as I'm concerned, it should read "You should NEVER disable this function." Not having automatic updates on means your computer is vulnerable - and all the performance tweaks in the world are worthless if your computer is crippled by a worm. BV's advice is like saying "I highly recommend you DO NOT drive your car with one wheel missing."

The point is that the guides are bad. If you want a decent tweaking guide, go to Ars Technica - those guys know what they're doing, and if you read those guides it's obvious that they not only understand the OS but all the underlying principles as well.

I hope this was just an oversight on your part.

Alright, it no longer says he thinks it's a good idea - but it still says he thinks it is a plausible possibility, which it isn't, and that's misleading and a disservice to his readers.

"Black Viper's Top tweaks for a much faster PC
The following is what I do directly after a clean install of Windows XP. This does not mean that everything I do will work for you. Keeping that in mind and ensure you are fully aware of the risks of tweaking your system before doing so."

Everybody has a disclaimer. Read any EULA. They always try to get you to agree not to hold them legally responsible for what their software or recommendations may do. Let's say you buy a waterblock from DangerDen. Their disclaimer probably says that watercooling is not for everyone, they are not responsible, serious hardware damage is a distinct possibility, etc. Does that mean DangerDen thinks their waterblocks are crap? Does it mean they think you shouldn't install them?

Or is it that they want you to use them, and think they're great, but are trying to cover their a$$ in case you blow up your system trying to install it?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: forrestroche

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Last time I looked at it he was recommending a bunch of stuff that was just silly. He didn't explain things properly, a nd made it seem like his suggestions were the best thing to do.

It's just bad documentation, and I can definitely blame him for that.

Direct quote and the header from the first page on tweaking XP:

"Black Viper's Top tweaks for a much faster PC
The following is what I do directly after a clean install of Windows XP. This does not mean that everything I do will work for you. Keeping that in mind and ensure you are fully aware of the risks of tweaking your system before doing so."

Black Viper "made it seem like his suggestions were the best thing to do."? Not sure that's an accurate characterization.

He also suggests creating different services profiles - one being the default settings so if you have problems it's not problem to restore them.

I did not see that stuff when I first looked over the guide a couple of years ago. It may have been there, but wasn't prominant.

That should be enough to get me banned I guess.

Huh? Why would this post get you banned?

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: Fresh Daemon
As far as I'm concerned, it should read "You should NEVER disable this function." Not having automatic updates on means your computer is vulnerable...

That is a load of crap. I never have automatic updates enabled except when I'm ready to take the time to go through MS's security patches and select which patches I want to install. I've had a patch or two in the past which has fubared my computer so I'm not about to let MS install them automatically, and I've never had a virus or had my computer compromised. It just depends on what precautions you take and how you use your computer as to whether or not it is vulnerable. No amount of Windows security patches are going to prevent you from a virus getting on your computer if you're an idiot.

Black Viper's site is intended for tweakers. A lot of it is pointless effort in these days when system resources are plentiful, but that doesn't mean it's all worthless information.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: Fresh Daemon
As far as I'm concerned, it should read "You should NEVER disable this function." Not having automatic updates on means your computer is vulnerable...

That is a load of crap. I never have automatic updates enabled except when I'm ready to take the time to go through MS's security patches and select which patches I want to install. I've had a patch or two in the past which has fubared my computer so I'm not about to let MS install them automatically, and I've never had a virus or had my computer compromised. It just depends on what precautions you take and how you use your computer as to whether or not it is vulnerable. No amount of Windows security patches are going to prevent you from a virus getting on your computer if you're an idiot.

Black Viper's site is intended for tweakers. A lot of it is pointless effort in these days when system resources are plentiful, but that doesn't mean it's all worthless information.

I agree that sometimes turning Automatic Updates off makes sense, but if you're one of the people it makes sense for, chances are you don't need to read Black Vipers guides.

 

[drag]

The guy gives generally bad advice. That's a fact and is all people are trying to get across.

If your going to 'tweak' your computer operating system, you might as well learn what is realy going on and then adjust appropriately for your application. Most of what he talks about is worse then useless, it causes people to screw up their computers chasing a performance advantage that doesn't realy exist in the real world and it tricks them into thinking that they've learned something of value.

I am sure the guy means good, but he should be kinda of ignored on a lot of stuff.


Another big example is stuff like this:

Virtual Memory ~ The name used for the sum of Physical RAM and the Swap File. In other words: Physical RAM + Swap File = Virtual Memory. You cannot "disable" Virtual Memory even if you disable the Swap File. Meaning, 2 GB RAM + 0 MB Swap File = 2 GB Virtual Memory.

That is completely and 100% wrong. It's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. That's not what virtual memory is at all. But lots of people get screwed up into beleiving that's it true and will actuall argue with people about it.

That's right up there with some guy from CompUSA trying to explain to me that virtual memory is pretend memory or memory in the swap file.

When he says stuff like that he should be ignored. But regular people don't know what to ignore and what to beleive and they screw things up.

Sure you can't blame him for screwing up another person's computer if they are ignorant or don't pay attention.. but you can blame him for screwing up people's computers when they carefully read and believe everything that he is telling them. It's a misrepresentation.

And there's little things like that spread all over his website.

Now I'm perfectly wrong lots of time, but I always try to tell people that they need to do research on stuff themselves and double sheck with more official documentation and such.

 

[KoolDrew]

The point is that the guides are bad. If you want a decent tweaking guide, go to Ars Technica - those guys know what they're doing, and if you read those guides it's obvious that they not only understand the OS but all the underlying principles as well.

Ars forums have the most knowledgeable members out of any forum I have ever been to :thumbsup:

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by: KoolDrewArs forums have the most knowledgeable members out of any forum I have ever been to :thumbsup:

It is true. Howvever there is a Catch 22 to it too.

1. Many of them think that if they know more than the average Joe, BAD attitude is an Educational tool.

2. Many times you would see the Catch22 answers. I.e. the answer is given in a way that if you are not knowledgeable you can not follow it. However if you are knowledgeable you would not ask the question to begin with.

In this sense it is like the Viper, it is "Our way, or the Road way".

:sun:

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: drag
The guy gives generally bad advice. That's a fact and is all people are trying to get across.

If your going to 'tweak' your computer operating system, you might as well learn what is realy going on and then adjust appropriately for your application. Most of what he talks about is worse then useless, it causes people to screw up their computers chasing a performance advantage that doesn't realy exist in the real world and it tricks them into thinking that they've learned something of value.

I am sure the guy means good, but he should be kinda of ignored on a lot of stuff.


Another big example is stuff like this:

Virtual Memory ~ The name used for the sum of Physical RAM and the Swap File. In other words: Physical RAM + Swap File = Virtual Memory. You cannot "disable" Virtual Memory even if you disable the Swap File. Meaning, 2 GB RAM + 0 MB Swap File = 2 GB Virtual Memory.

That is completely and 100% wrong. It's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. That's not what virtual memory is at all. But lots of people get screwed up into beleiving that's it true and will actuall argue with people about it.

That's right up there with some guy from CompUSA trying to explain to me that virtual memory is pretend memory or memory in the swap file.

When he says stuff like that he should be ignored. But regular people don't know what to ignore and what to beleive and they screw things up.

Sure you can't blame him for screwing up another person's computer if they are ignorant or don't pay attention.. but you can blame him for screwing up people's computers when they carefully read and believe everything that he is telling them. It's a misrepresentation.

And there's little things like that spread all over his website.

Now I'm perfectly wrong lots of time, but I always try to tell people that they need to do research on stuff themselves and double sheck with more official documentation and such.

Heh, that's even sillier than the notion that PF == Virtual Memory.
At least I can see where the latter comes from, his version is just silly.

 

[stash]

Well, simply put, many posters at Ars do know more than the average Joe about certain things. DriverGuru is one example when it comes to VM.

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by: STaSh
Well, simply put, many posters at Ars do know more than the average Joe about certain things. DriverGuru is one example when it comes to VM.

Yeah, but for some bizarre reason I thought that Public Forums meant to help people.

Most of Graduate school?s professors know more than their students, but it does not do a lot of Good if the professor is a "BAD" teacher, that likes to put down his students.

:sun:

 

[stash]

I rarely see knowlegable people at Ars putting people who don't know as much down. I mean, sometimes we get frustrated when people ask the same questions over and over (VM, which is better: XP Pro or Home, I encrypted my files and reloaded Windows...why can't I read anything, etc). But that's par for the course in any forum.

 

[Fresh Daemon]

Black Viper's site is intended for tweakers.

I have to disagree. Tweakers know what they're doing, or get their information from a reputable source. I would like to see BV's in-depth analysis of G5 processor architecture, as Ars writers have done, please.

That is a load of crap. I never have automatic updates enabled except when I'm ready to take the time to go through MS's security patches and select which patches I want to install.

Because you know what they are, right? So this is like saying that a person should not try to fix their own wiring but call in a pro. They shouldn't, since they could make it worse or electrocute themselves. However, if they are a pro, they'll ignore that advice anyway and fix it themselves.

But BV is telling amateurs that they can fix their own wiring, and people get electrocuted. Metaphorically.

The point is that BV is doing the following:

1) Advising people on processes and functions he doesn't fully understand himself
2) Advising people to disable possibly useful services in exchange for insignificant performance gains
3) Giving advice likely to lead to unskilled users getting in over their heads and breaking something - like the AT thread that was just linked in this one.

There is useful info on his site, but you have to wade through BS and nonsense to get to it, so why bother? Why not just go to Ars and get the info without the BS and nonsense?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Fresh Daemon

Black Viper's site is intended for tweakers.

I have to disagree. Tweakers know what they're doing, or get their information from a reputable source.

Ooh! Sweeping generalizations!

 

[Fresh Daemon]

Insert the word "generally" as you like.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Fresh Daemon
Insert the word "generally" as you like.

I had to hold myself back from making sweeping generalizations of my own. They weren't too nice to the idea of tweaking.

 

[Nothinman]

I have to disagree. Tweakers know what they're doing, or get their information from a reputable source.

Considering all of the posts from people trying to tweak the windows VM system to remove the pagefile, I would say this isn't true.

 

[Fresh Daemon]

Considering all of the posts from people trying to tweak the windows VM system to remove the pagefile, I would say this isn't true.

This raises a question of causality. Does BV pander to this crowd, or does he help create it?

 

[spyordie007]

In an attempt for fairness I went and took a look at BlackViper's current recommendations for XP SP2. It's slightly improved (in that he offers a "safe" option) however a lot of what he is suggesting can cause serious problems if you arent very aware of what you are doing.

Please dont tweak anything when you arent fully aware of the implications (not just reading someone's opinion on the tweak, but really understanding what it does and what will be effected).

I have to disagree. Tweakers know what they're doing, or get their information from a reputable source.

I disagree with your disagreeance. Those who *think* they know what they are doing are typically the ones who do a lot of tweaking. Than blame Microsoft, etc. when something doesnt work right.

Those who know dont do much "tweaking" because they actually realize:
a. They typically arent even going to gain a sizeable amount of anything.
b. The implications of the tweaks they are performing (like what it will break).

 

[Nothinman]

This raises a question of causality. Does BV pander to this crowd, or does he help create it?

Both, the clueless tweaker crowd would exist whether BV's page was there or not, just like the kids who think they're cool because they put a NOS sticker on their mom's minivan.

 

[KoolDrew]

I disagree with your disagreeance. Those who *think* they know what they are doing are typically the ones who do a lot of tweaking. Than blame Microsoft, etc. when something doesnt work right.

Those who know dont do much "tweaking" because they actually realize:
a. They typically arent even going to gain a sizeable amount of anything.
b. The implications of the tweaks they are performing (like what it will break).

This is exactly what bI was going to say.

 

[Kaspian]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: bsobel
Oh boy, more machines to fix...

The first AT victim of the new guide

:laugh:

 

[forrestroche]

Originally posted by: spyordie007
Please dont tweak anything when you arent fully aware of the implications (not just reading someone's opinion on the tweak, but really understanding what it does and what will be effected).

Why not? BV states very clearly (for those who read ALL of the information in the tweaks section - anyone who reads HALF the book "how to overhaul your car's engine" deserve to have it blow up) you should create services profiles - and the first one is the default setting, that way you can return to all of your original settings no problem.

Even were that not true, with programs like Ghost, I feel free to do ANYTHING to my OS, because no matter what, I can restore my c: partition in under 5 minutes. All of my personal files are on a seperate partition, so I can't lose anything.

I don't understand much of anything about these services, but as I stated in an earlier post, following his advice (and some other peoples') allowed me to run XP Pro on a 475mhz 64mb ram HP laptop. It is stable and more responsive than 98se. But I used common sense and didn't go sticking my thang anywhere before I put a sock on (Ghost).

That said, I do think BV should provide and alternative to Sys Restore which he recommends shutting off (I agree humbly). Radified ( http://radified.com/index2.html ) articles on partition strategies and Ghost allowed me to set up my system so that I have NO fear of much of anything anymore.

Just a n00b's opinion