Black man taken to jail for sitting in public area

[Moonbeam]

MrPickins: I'm an idiot for saying that someone should leave private property when asked?

No I just wanted you to understand that endless kowtowing to injustice isn't an answer to anything except the limited but not unimportant matter of self preservation. I object and continue to object to the limited dimension of your post although the rest of this one was much better.

MP: Yes, there is a good chance that he was racially profiled, which is a bad thing. That doesn't mean he should refuse to leave when asked to by a representative of the property owner. We call that trespassing.

M: Yup

MP: I'm not saying a thing about his arrest or the behavior of the police, as I haven't seen the video.

M: Yup

MP: Also, I'm basing my opinion on the statements I have heard. If the additional info provided by pauldun170 is accurate, I will reassess.

M: Can't disagree with that either.

Do you agree that while individual refusal to obey the law isn't wise, something somewhere has to happen to address unequal application of the law due to differences of race? I think you do and that was my point, really.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I've been pulled over late (1am-2am) at night, an officer came to my door while a second officer pointing his weapon at me from the rear of the car. I've seen other police officers doing the same during my travels, this in not that uncommon throughout the US.

 

[dmcowen674]

Black man taken to jail for sitting in public area - Video inside

A video of a man being arrested and allegedly Tasered by police in front of his children for refusing to leave an area of a building has sparked outrage after it was posted on YouTube.

The footage, which shows an incident in January but has only recently been released, shows an altercation between Christopher Lollie and two police officers who were called by a security guard at the First National Bank Building in Minnesota.

Throughout the video, Mr Lollie, a local artist, says he is being approached by police because he a black man. Footage of the incident was posted online on Tuesday and has already been viewed over 132,000 times.

St Paul’s Police Department initially charged him with trespassing, disorderly conduct and obstruction of the legal process, but these were dropped in July.

The video, taken by Mr Lollie during his arrest, begins with a female police officer repeatedly asking his name as she escorts him away. When he declines to answer and asks why he has to tell her his identity, she responds: “Because that’s what police do when they get called, they identify people.”


"Well, I know my rights, first off," Mr Lollie replies. "Secondly, I don't have to let you know who I am if I haven't broken any laws."

The father-of-two can be heard explaining that he is on his way to New Horizon’s to collect his children at 10am. "That's a public area," he said. "If there's no sign that doesn’t [say], 'This is a private area, you can't sit here,' no one can tell me I can't sit there."

When the police officer begins to explain “what the problem was”, Mr Lollie interjects: "The problem is I'm black. That’s the problem – it really is, because I didn’t do anything wrong.”

The female officer escorting Mr Lollie away The female officer escorting Mr Lollie away Shortly after this, a male officer comes into the screen and approaches Mr Lollie, reaching towards him. Mr Lollie tells the officer “please don’t touch me”, to which he responds: “Well, you’re going to go to jail then”.

Mr Lollie repeatedly insists he is not doing anything wrong and at one point calls the officer “brother”, to which he replies “I’m not your brother”.

“Put your hands behind your back, otherwise this is going to get ugly,” the male police officer can be heard telling him.

Shortly after this, the video screen becomes obscured and the officer can be heard saying: “You’re gonna get Tased”. A distressed Mr Lollie can be heard repeatedly saying that he has not done anything wrong, before children can be heard shouting in the back ground.

Mr Lollie shouts: “Can somebody help me, that’s my kids right there” before the sound of a Taser can be heard.

Both those cops should be fired especially the guy.

The guy arrested is absolutely right those cops are racist mother fuckers.

Hope he sues and gets a bundle.

He certainly had his civil rights trounced all over.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

You sound like someone who doesn't routinely get pulled over for doing nothing illegal.

I'm black, and I've been pulled over at least 7 times and had a gun drawn on me 3 times all for doing nothing illegal at all.

I always just bend over and take it as I understand how thin the line is between going home and getting arrested or seriously hurt. But just because I've learned to take it, doesn't make it right. And maybe it makes me more of a coward than those that don't.

I've been pulled over a good number of times for BS reasons and have had guns drawn on me as well. I've been arrested a few times...one time I was in jail and the guy in the next cell over was being belligerent as hell...4 cops got tired of it and went into his cell...a minute or so later he suddenly got real quiet. Did they do that because he was black? I don't think so.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I've been pulled over late (1am-2am) at night, an officer came to my door while a second officer pointing his weapon at me from the rear of the car. I've seen other police officers doing the same during my travels, this in not that uncommon throughout the US.

When you're a hammer...everything looks like a nail.

 

[Moonbeam]

What's your basis for assuming this?

He's prepared to change his mind with further evidence. Are you prepared to accept a reason for why he makes that assumption. Is there anything that a person can do to justify suspicions based on experience that would pass any test you might set? What we are doing here, in my opinion, is discussing how we see the incident based on our personal assumptions of reality. My interest is in bringing those assumptions to the fore so we can look at them. The incident and what information we have is a mini Rorschach.

 

[pauldun170]

Do you agree that while individual refusal to obey the law isn't wise, something somewhere has to happen to address unequal application of the law due to differences of race? I think you do and that was my point, really.

In this case, what law was actually broken?

Anyone familiar with the building and the layout?
Was the area "private" and not "public space"?
Was it clearly marked as private?
Was the Security Guard contractually responsible for the area in question?
Are other non-employees using that area and are they asked to leave?
If the officer witnessed the trespassing, why were the charges dropped?
Anyone familiar with Minnesota Trespassing laws?
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.605 (Don't have time to dig)

If he entered the building legally and was asked was asked to leave but didn't until a police officer escorted him how SHOULD the law be applied?
Shouldn't the officer have clearly stated that he is being charged with trespassing and will be issued a summons (for a misdemeanor charge)?

Why is the officer asking "what was the problem back there"?

Its a simple trespass and the subject is leaving the area
Either
A. Escort off the property
B. Escort off the property and issue summons

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

He's prepared to change his mind with further evidence. Are you prepared to accept a reason for why he makes that assumption. Is there anything that a person can do to justify suspicions based on experience that would pass any test you might set? What we are doing here, in my opinion, is discussing how we see the incident based on our personal assumptions of reality. My interest is in bringing those assumptions to the fore so we can look at them. The incident and what information we have is a mini Rorschach.

It may indeed have been racially motivated...but I see zero evidence that suggests this particular incident was racially motivated. Why make an assumption without any reasonable evidence?

 

[alzan]

In this case, what law was actually broken?

Anyone familiar with the building and the layout?
Was the area "private" and not "public space"?
Was it clearly marked as private?
Was the Security Guard contractually responsible for the area in question?
Are other non-employees using that area and are they asked to leave?
If the officer witnessed the trespassing, why were the charges dropped?
Anyone familiar with Minnesota Trespassing laws?
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.605 (Don't have time to dig)

If he entered the building legally and was asked was asked to leave but didn't until a police officer escorted him how SHOULD the law be applied?
Shouldn't the officer have clearly stated that he is being charged with trespassing and will be issued a summons (for a misdemeanor charge)?

Why is the officer asking "what was the problem back there"?

Its a simple trespass and the subject is leaving the area
Either
A. Escort off the property
B. Escort off the property and issue summons

All good relevant questions.

The officer(s) were overreacting throughout the video; we don't know why and the fact that the charges were dropped seem to suggest that the private security/police knew they were in the wrong or the prosecutor found out they were wrong and dropped the charges.

 

[Ackmed]

It's private property, if they want him gone, he's gone. There doesn't have to be a sign. It's called trespassing. Second, in most States, you have to identify yourself, or have an ID. Sure you don't have to answer, but then you can be charged.

Calling him black, instead of just a man is idiotic. You're baiting. Sounds to me likes hes a homeless bum "artist", and threw the race card out like a tool bag. And everyone is gobbling it up.

 

[nehalem256]

All good relevant questions.

The officer(s) were overreacting throughout the video; we don't know why and the fact that the charges were dropped seem to suggest that the private security/police knew they were in the wrong or the prosecutor found out they were wrong and dropped the charges.

Or they thought the negative publicity wasn't worth the trouble.

 

[JEDIYoda]

What are "these actions" exactly? What were the specifics of the scenario, what happened before he was arrested? Was he in fact in a private area, did he refuse to leave?

The fact that he's claiming it's because he's black doesn't make it so. Is there any evidence for the claim, or any supporting documentation?

That's okay defend the cops at all cost even in the face of evidence that says the cops were wrong! The man created no crime and the cops handcuffed and teased him because he did not want to show ID?? Last time zi checked you did not have to show ID to the cops if you had not committed a crime....of course if you are driving as a driver you always show ID when asked...

 

[JEDIYoda]

It's private property, if they want him gone, he's gone. <--- you do not know that as a fact it is private property.....do you....
There doesn't have to be a sign. It's called trespassing.

Second, in most States, you have to identify yourself, or have an ID. Sure you don't have to answer, but then you can be charged. <-- wrong in most states you do not have to show ID when asked....unless you are driving and pulled over....

Calling him black, instead of just a man is idiotic. You're baiting. Sounds to me likes hes a homeless bum "artist", and threw the race card out like a tool bag. And everyone is gobbling it up.

<-- sounds to me like your another police are always right sympathizer.....

 

[JEDIYoda]

Ackmed -- All good relevant questions.

The officer(s) were overreacting throughout the video; we don't know why and the fact that the charges were dropped seem to suggest that the private security/police knew they were in the wrong or the prosecutor found out they were wrong and dropped the charges.

Nehalem256 -- Or they thought the negative publicity wasn't worth the trouble.

Actually none of the above matter...the charges were dropped signifying the police acted inappropriately and often charges are dropped when the Police know there will be a lawsuit and they will lose!!

You do not drop charges for no reason!

 

[pauldun170]

It's private property, if they want him gone, he's gone. There doesn't have to be a sign. It's called trespassing. Second, in most States, you have to identify yourself, or have an ID. Sure you don't have to answer, but then you can be charged.

In the state that it occurred, there is no law that you have to identify yourself.

In the video, Lollie asks what the officers business with him is.
The officer says nothing about trespassing.
She asks for identification and "what the problem was back there"
She then says that his providing identification is the way he will be allowed to leave.

What that translates to is the officer is detaining him for not providing ID, something she has no legal authority to do.

After the additional officers show up and say that he is under arrest, she then says that she needs his ID to settle what happened.

 

[pauldun170]

Or they thought the negative publicity wasn't worth the trouble.

Its a simple trespass and the charges were dropped a month ago before the video came out.

Without the video it's an easy no-brainer for any prosecutor and they are not going to throw out a simple case like this one because of "publicity"

 

[pauldun170]

<-- sounds to me like your another police are always right sympathizer.....

That building should be private property. The question that comes up is whether the Security Guard had legal authority as representatives of the building owner\leasee of area in question to tell him to move.

If I work in a multi-tenant commercial building, I can't just go to different areas to tell people to leave....even if it would be fun.

 

[MrPickins]

Do you agree that while individual refusal to obey the law isn't wise, something somewhere has to happen to address unequal application of the law due to differences of race? I think you do and that was my point, really.

Security guards do not "apply the law", and I was not speaking about the actions of police.

As far as addressing the bias found in our criminal justice system/society, recording yourself being asked to leave for no other reason than being black (if, indeed this was what happened) and then complying encourages a lot more sympathy in me than outright refusing to follow a lawful request from the representative of the property owner.

Again, I don't care what color you are. If you're told to leave private property by an authorized person, you leave.

 

[Moonbeam]

Security guards do not "apply the law", and I was not speaking about the actions of police.

As far as addressing the bias found in our criminal justice system/society, recording yourself being asked to leave for no other reason than being black (if, indeed this was what happened) and then complying encourages a lot more sympathy in me than outright refusing to follow a lawful request from the representative of the property owner.

Again, I don't care what color you are. If you're told to leave private property by an authorized person, you leave.

Right, but you haven't spent your life at the back of the bus or drinking from the Colored only water fountain so I see your point of view as insufficient and limited to a privileged perspective. If you limit your thinking to such a narrow viewpoint, Watts will be the result. Then you can complain that bhe billions lost and the lives wasted were due to insubordination. Remember, to be or not to be is the question. You come down on the suffer the slings and arrows side, maybe because you live in rather more comfort than those to wom you offer advise.

 

[MrPickins]

Right, but you haven't spent your life at the back of the bus or drinking from the Colored only water fountain so I see your point of view as insufficient and limited to a privileged perspective. If you limit your thinking to such a narrow viewpoint, Watts will be the result. Then you can complain that bhe billions lost and the lives wasted were due to insubordination. Remember, to be or not to be is the question. You come down on the suffer the slings and arrows side, maybe because you live in rather more comfort than those to wom you offer advise.

Moonie, you know nothing about me or what I've experienced in my life, so don't act like you do. :thumbsdown:

 

[Moonbeam]

It may indeed have been racially motivated...but I see zero evidence that suggests this particular incident was racially motivated. Why make an assumption without any reasonable evidence?

If 9 out of 10 dentists recommend Crest and folk claim that some dentist was asked to leave a building because he recommended Zanpaste, my money goes to the possibility that the real reason he was asked to leave is because he recommended Crest, and especially so happens to be a Zanpaste bank and dentists are often caught robbing them.

 

[Moonbeam]

In this case, what law was actually broken?

Anyone familiar with the building and the layout?
Was the area "private" and not "public space"?
Was it clearly marked as private?
Was the Security Guard contractually responsible for the area in question?
Are other non-employees using that area and are they asked to leave?
If the officer witnessed the trespassing, why were the charges dropped?
Anyone familiar with Minnesota Trespassing laws?
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.605 (Don't have time to dig)

If he entered the building legally and was asked was asked to leave but didn't until a police officer escorted him how SHOULD the law be applied?
Shouldn't the officer have clearly stated that he is being charged with trespassing and will be issued a summons (for a misdemeanor charge)?

Why is the officer asking "what was the problem back there"?

Its a simple trespass and the subject is leaving the area
Either
A. Escort off the property
B. Escort off the property and issue summons

Excellent points. I was trying to widen the perspective and you are widening it further.

 

[CitizenKain]

It's private property, if they want him gone, he's gone. There doesn't have to be a sign. It's called trespassing. Second, in most States, you have to identify yourself, or have an ID. Sure you don't have to answer, but then you can be charged.

Calling him black, instead of just a man is idiotic. You're baiting. Sounds to me likes hes a homeless bum "artist", and threw the race card out like a tool bag. And everyone is gobbling it up.

Nowhere near the level of cop dick you are gobbling up. Expected from people like you.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

If 9 out of 10 dentists recommend Crest and folk claim that some dentist was asked to leave a building because he recommended Zanpaste, my money goes to the possibility that the real reason he was asked to leave is because he recommended Crest, and especially so happens to be a Zanpaste bank and dentists are often caught robbing them.

If 1 out of 10 people consider themselves a "victim"...nine have a decent chance of not becoming one.

 

[Moonbeam]

Moonie, you know nothing about me or what I've experienced in my life, so don't act like you do. :thumbsdown:

Not acting like I do. Suggesting it as a possibility. Not interested in whether you like it. It seems to me there must be some reason you insist on taking what looks to be a narrow point of view.