[BitsAndChips]390X ready for launch - AMD ironing out drivers - Computex launch

[Silverforce11]

this bodes well, already a design win http://www.pcworld.com/article/2917...other-unannounced-radeons-in-new-systems.html

Okay, now I am sold.

There's no way little OEM rigs with poor ventilation & weak PSU would include a R380 class GPU (HP advertising it as top config for its Back to School range, including 4K monitors) unless AMD has managed significant efficiency gains.

Looks like rumors regarding the 380X being 20% faster than 980 for similar power usage may end up true.

If so, the 380 will be a ~150W part at 980 performance.

 

[3DVagabond]

It is not about marketing.There are many other factors which plays.For example 4 months driver delay and Freesync CF support driver delay.AMD has a very bad consumer support.

See this topic which is another factor.
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=398858

but these type of Topics are meaning less for Red team because of ignorance.AMD can never be top brand until they learn and admit their mistakes.

I'm not even going to get into this conversation for the umpteenth time with you. You can just go back and read any of the countless other threads on the subject. Or you can go and cheer lead in the thread you linked. Leave me out of it though. I can't be bothered with your red team labels and calling people ignorant when we are trying to have a reasonable discussion. Go find some other place to thread crap and stop using my posts to start it.

 

[Silverforce11]

We have no idea what it is though. It could be a rebranded OEM only SKU like the 8000 series was. It could be latest tech w/HBM, but it doesn't say anything.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2917...y-and-envy-phoenix-pcs-plus-a-4k-display.html

4K monitor and top of the line gamer rig has the R380 class GPU. The 4K monitor itself should tell you its serious gaming and not el-cheapo OEM rigs.

What's interesting is the All-In-One HP PCs
http://core0.staticworld.net/images...vilion_aio_front_and_back-100582929-large.jpg

Also has options for discrete 300 series AMD GPUs. This can't happen in such a form factor without some major efficiency gains.

Anyone wanna guess what the retail price for R380 would be?

"As HP’s top-of-the-line gaming desktop, the $899 Envy Phoenix will feature closed-looped liquid cooling. To make the most of that, HP will also offer unlocked Intel CPUs, and the company said the machines will come from the factory with overclocking options."

Box cost, most probably i5-K ed with AIO rad, + R380 + ram + HD + Micro ATX MB + etc. For $899 is a good deal, if I had to guess, I would say R380 can't be more than $299.

 

[Silverforce11]

It is not about marketing.There are many other factors which plays.For example 4 months driver delay and Freesync CF support driver delay.AMD has a very bad consumer support.

See this topic which is another factor.
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=398858

but these type of Topics are meaning less for Red team because of ignorance.AMD can never be top brand until they learn and admit their mistakes.

Actually all those problems you mention except for FS, is related to NV's GameWorks program.

Including the erroneous claim of worse DX11 driver overhead. As proven in GTA V, one of the hardest CPU limited games in recent times and one that isn't GameWorks.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-the-best-pc-hardware-for-grand-theft-auto-5

Note the i3 + Titan X combo.

Every other GameWorks title shipped with very poor performance on AMD, but a few months later, the developers release an AMD optimization patch and suddenly performance sky rockets back up to where they should be. Including Dying Light + max view range. GameWorks just cripples AMD on purpose.

NV can market that, big GameWorks title, runs better on NV hardware = so pay more for NV GPUs.

 

[desprado]

Actually all those problems you mention except for FS, is related to NV's GameWorks program.

Including the erroneous claim of worse DX11 driver overhead. As proven in GTA V, one of the hardest CPU limited games in recent times and one that isn't GameWorks.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-the-best-pc-hardware-for-grand-theft-auto-5

Note the i3 + Titan X combo.

Every other GameWorks title shipped with very poor performance on AMD, but a few months later, the developers release an AMD optimization patch and suddenly performance sky rockets back up to where they should be. Including Dying Light + max view range. GameWorks just cripples AMD on purpose.

NV can market that, big GameWorks title, runs better on NV hardware = so pay more for NV GPUs.

U cant say that Civilization 5 and beyond earth are gamework and yet it perform better with Nvidia because Nvidia driver reduce bottleneck.


You can have another 10 days off for continuing to derail the thread and bait others.


-Rvenger

 

[Silverforce11]

U cant say that Civilization 5 and beyond earth are gamework and yet it perform better with Nvidia because Nvidia driver reduce bottleneck.

Civ 5 BE performs just fine on AMD's Mantle.

Same for BF4 and BF4 Hardline. Where Mantle exists, AMD & devs optimize for it and do not optimize for the DX11 path. Read the BF4 Hardline reviews, in DX11 mode, AMD GPUs stutter badly and yet on Mantle, its very smooth & fast.

AMD could also market for DX12, with 3dMark's DX12 bench clearly showing better efficiency on AMD.


Don't take the bait unless you want to join Desprado. Last warning.

-Rvenger

 

[Hitman928]

Civ 5 BE performs just fine on AMD's Mantle.

Same for BF4 and BF4 Hardline. Where Mantle exists, AMD & devs optimize for it and do not optimize for the DX11 path. Read the BF4 Hardline reviews, in DX11 mode, AMD GPUs stutter badly and yet on Mantle, its very smooth & fast.

AMD could also market for DX12, with 3dMark's DX12 bench clearly showing better efficiency on AMD.

Civ5 performs just fine on AMD as well:

This is from two years ago. The game had a slight edge for Nvidia, but it wasn't a huge win or anything. Seriously, this is getting really tiresome that the same debunked arguments keep getting repeated again and again and again.

 

[burninatortech4]

Design wins with OEM's are exactly what AMD needs to turn the ship around. The 370x rumors are also great. Sounds like a fantastic sweet-spot card.

 

[raghu78]

Okay, now I am sold.

There's no way little OEM rigs with poor ventilation & weak PSU would include a R380 class GPU (HP advertising it as top config for its Back to School range, including 4K monitors) unless AMD has managed significant efficiency gains.

Looks like rumors regarding the 380X being 20% faster than 980 for similar power usage may end up true.

If so, the 380 will be a ~150W part at 980 performance.

I did say that the R9 380 will fight it out with GTX 980. lets see if my predictions come true.

http://www.cnet.com/news/desktops-arent-dead-hp-adds-new-towers-for-back-to-school/

"The Pavilion All-in-One will be available starting June 28 in the US, from $649. The HP Pavilion desktop is coming on June 10, from $449, while the HP Envy and HP Envy Phoenix desktops are coming the same day, at $699 and $899, respectively. HP has not yet provided international pricing and availability, and we'll update this story when that information is available."

I am waiting to rub it in into the people who were sarcastically commenting on AMD and the R9 3xx GPU stack.

I think we will get a few more clues on May 6th at Financial Analyst Day and then my guess is definitely a Computex reveal for the R9 3xx stack and broad availability of R9 390 and R9 380 series by mid June. The R9 370 series might follow in early July. I would not be surprised if reviews go up on Jun 16th when the PC gaming event at E3 is scheduled (which AMD is sponsoring) :thumbsup:

http://hexus.net/gaming/news/industry/82861-first-ever-pc-gaming-show-e3-will-sponsored-amd/

 

[Azix]

It is not about marketing.There are many other factors which plays.For example 4 months driver delay and Freesync CF support driver delay.AMD has a very bad consumer support.

See this topic which is another factor.
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=398858

sigh. More anti AMD propaganda. For all the "AMD sucks with drivers" claims, all I have seen recently are nvidia driver complaints.

I also wouldn't necessarily say its a problem with drivers if the low end CPU is failing with it. But I guess it could be better. When I hear driver problems i think bugs, not lack of optimization in a fringe case. bottlenecking has always been a thing. It would be worth comparing a lower end AMD card to the 750TI rather than a higher end card than the ti.

The purpose of the eurogamer article does not seem to be to check drivers. The author of that thread is simply exploiting it for the purpose. The 280 could simply be choking somehow due to the bottleneck. The 290 vs 780ti shows a difference consistent with a normal situation.

Or am I missing something? I see the other benchmarks but at the end of the day you are still better off with the AMD card.

 

[Silverforce11]

The purpose of the eurogamer article does not seem to be to check drivers. The author of that thread is simply exploiting it for the purpose. The 280 could simply be choking somehow due to the bottleneck. The 290 vs 780ti shows a difference consistent with a normal situation.

Or am I missing something?

The Eurogamer GTA V article was updated to include Titan X on the i3 setup.. it stutters badly and have pretty horrible min/avg fps, actually, it was performing as if its a 750ti or R260/270/280. It just shows that GTA V A) needs a real quad core, not fake dual cores with HT and B) scales excellent with more cores and C) stronger GPUs need a stronger CPU to drive it.

Originally the article didn't test the i3 with other GPUs, so people concluded AMD drivers suck for i3s, since the 280 wasn't performing well. It turns out they were wrong.

In neutral games, there IS NO AMD DRIVER OVERHEAD. It only exists in GameWorks titles and ONLY until their lazy developers finally release an AMD optimization patch (which shows they clearly did not optimize for AMD during development, period).

 

[3DVagabond]

I did say that the R9 380 will fight it out with GTX 980. lets see if my predictions come true.

http://www.cnet.com/news/desktops-arent-dead-hp-adds-new-towers-for-back-to-school/

"The Pavilion All-in-One will be available starting June 28 in the US, from $649. The HP Pavilion desktop is coming on June 10, from $449, while the HP Envy and HP Envy Phoenix desktops are coming the same day, at $699 and $899, respectively. HP has not yet provided international pricing and availability, and we'll update this story when that information is available."

I am waiting to rub it in into the people who were sarcastically commenting on AMD and the R9 3xx GPU stack.

I think we will get a few more clues on May 6th at Financial Analyst Day and then my guess is definitely a Computex reveal for the R9 3xx stack and broad availability of R9 390 and R9 380 series by mid June. The R9 370 series might follow in early July. I would not be surprised if reviews go up on Jun 16th when the PC gaming event at E3 is scheduled (which AMD is sponsoring) :thumbsup:

http://hexus.net/gaming/news/industry/82861-first-ever-pc-gaming-show-e3-will-sponsored-amd/

Accountability is against the rules. Be careful how you approach it.

Hopefully these early June dates are good for the entire 300 series. :fingerscrossed:

 

[ocre]

Okay, now I am sold.

There's no way little OEM rigs with poor ventilation & weak PSU would include a R380 class GPU (HP advertising it as top config for its Back to School range, including 4K monitors) unless AMD has managed significant efficiency gains.

Looks like rumors regarding the 380X being 20% faster than 980 for similar power usage may end up true.

If so, the 380 will be a ~150W part at 980 performance.

I am really confused. The not thing the article tells us is that we will most likely be seeing new AMD gpus soon, before school starts.

You are reading way to much into this and making it much more that it really is. We have AMD in mobile solutions today. We have AMD gpus driving not only 4k but 5k. For all we know, the 380 could be a full tonga. We still have no real confirmation.

This 20% faster than 980, dirt cheap hyped up AMD card might be a huge disappointment. I think we should be careful on how much we hype up a card that hasn't launched. If it is better than we expected, it stands to highly impress. Setting the bar too high is a huge mistake, I think

 

[Glo.]

Design wins with OEM's are exactly what AMD needs to turn the ship around. The 370x rumors are also great. Sounds like a fantastic sweet-spot card.

And the design wins for OEMs are in my opinion causing the delay of broad availability of GPUs from AMD. HP and Apple(Mac Pro, and possibly - iMac) as of now.

 

[Silverforce11]

And the design wins for OEMs are in my opinion causing the delay of broad availability of GPUs from AMD. HP and Apple(Mac Pro, and possibly - iMac) as of now.

Tonga for Apple is from TSMC, latest signs point to next-gen stuff being from GloFo. There's certainly no shortage of 28nm capacity at TSMC to be the bottleneck.

 

[Glo.]

Im talking about new GPUs, Silver .

If all GPUs are as of now made on 20 nm FDSOI from Glo-Fo and OEMs bought all of the available SKUs - thats where we have had such a delay in 3XX series. AMD can use this time for three things. Sell out all the SKUs that have been on 28 nm process, work on Drivers, and get even more dies from Glo-Fo, so that OEMs and end consumers can get their hands on new GPUs since the start of selling them broadly.

 

[Silverforce11]

This 20% faster than 980, dirt cheap hyped up AMD card might be a huge disappointment. I think we should be careful on how much we hype up a card that hasn't launched. If it is better than we expected, it stands to highly impress. Setting the bar too high is a huge mistake, I think

HP is hyping up their new gaming line-up. I'm confident they know its going to be good, otherwise they wouldn't be jumping the gun with the early reveal of AMD's next-gen GPUs.

Simple OEM rebadges don't get this fanfare.

Bar isn't that high. In fact, the 970 custom models are close to 980 performance for cheap. If AMD can't exceed Maxwell with their new-gen and HBM, they are doing it wrong, frankly.

 

[JDG1980]

You are reading way to much into this and making it much more that it really is. We have AMD in mobile solutions today. We have AMD gpus driving not only 4k but 5k. For all we know, the 380 could be a full tonga. We still have no real confirmation.

The problem with this is that even a full Tonga (performance ~15% above R9 285, assuming perfect scaling) would only have about 65% as much performance as the GTX 980. Why would HP even offer it as an alternative to the 980 if this was the case?

I think we can discount a Hawaii rebrand, too - did you see the size of that Envy Phoenix case? No way is Hawaii going to provide acceptable thermals in something like that - not to mention that giving that option would require a beefed-up PSU compared to the 980. No, it doesn't add up - an OEM wouldn't do something like that just to throw AMD a bone.

This is the strongest evidence I've seen so far indicating that the R9 380 will be a completely new chip.

 

[stahlhart]

I am waiting to rub it in into the people who were sarcastically commenting on AMD and the R9 3xx GPU stack.

Don't even think about doing it here. Your last warning.
-- stahlhart

 

[beginner99]

Im talking about new GPUs, Silver .

If all GPUs are as of now made on 20 nm FDSOI from Glo-Fo

Nope. They will be made on 28 nm process. Just like all the APUs. Yet this 28 nm is better than TSMC 28 nm in terms of leakge as was shown by prior products that were moved from TSMC 28 nm to GF 28 nm. Therefore the power saving can come from a better design and better process. In fact this would be the first time GF is actually and advantage and not hindrance for AMD.

 

[raghu78]

Don't even think about doing it here. Your last warning.
-- stahlhart

[Redacted]

Take this to Moderator discussions or PM to one of us. This has no business as a thread post in VC&G. Also, indirectly calling out another member will put you in hot water too.

-Rvenger

 

[arandomguy]

The problem with this is that even a full Tonga (performance ~15% above R9 285, assuming perfect scaling) would only have about 65% as much performance as the GTX 980. Why would HP even offer it as an alternative to the 980 if this was the case?

You would be assuming that HP is offering an AMD and Nvidia equivalent (or rough equivalent) per video card tier as an alternative to each other.

If you look at HPs current Envy Phoenix it also offers both AMD and Nvidia configuration options but they are staggered. The video card options are GTX 745 -> R9 270 -> GTX 770.

 

[frozentundra123456]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2917...y-and-envy-phoenix-pcs-plus-a-4k-display.html

4K monitor and top of the line gamer rig has the R380 class GPU. The 4K monitor itself should tell you its serious gaming and not el-cheapo OEM rigs.

What's interesting is the All-In-One HP PCs
http://core0.staticworld.net/images...vilion_aio_front_and_back-100582929-large.jpg

Also has options for discrete 300 series AMD GPUs. This can't happen in such a form factor without some major efficiency gains.

Anyone wanna guess what the retail price for R380 would be?

"As HP’s top-of-the-line gaming desktop, the $899 Envy Phoenix will feature closed-looped liquid cooling. To make the most of that, HP will also offer unlocked Intel CPUs, and the company said the machines will come from the factory with overclocking options."

Box cost, most probably i5-K ed with AIO rad, + R380 + ram + HD + Micro ATX MB + etc. For $899 is a good deal, if I had to guess, I would say R380 can't be more than $299.

Whoa, hold on there, you are reading a lot into this information that is not necessarily justified. I agree with Vagabond. This doesnt say much at all about the 380. I am sure it is 899.00 for some sort of base model, perhaps even with an i3. Are you seriously thinking they will sell a system with an unlocked i5, a powerful gpu, a fancy case, and water cooling for 899.00? One could barely, if at all, buy the parts and build it himself for that price.

It doesnt necessarily mean it is a super efficient 150 watt card either, since they are also advertising liquid cooling. And the 4K monitor seems like a separate item altogether, it doesnt say or even imply anywhere that the 380 is a gaming card for 4k.

 

[MrTeal]

Whoa, hold on there, you are reading a lot into this information that is not necessarily justified. I agree with Vagabond. This doesnt say much at all about the 380. I am sure it is 899.00 for some sort of base model, perhaps even with an i3. Are you seriously thinking they will sell a system with an unlocked i5, a powerful gpu, a fancy case, and water cooling for 899.00? One could barely, if at all, buy the parts and build it himself for that price.

It doesnt necessarily mean it is a super efficient 150 watt card either, since they are also advertising liquid cooling. And the 4K monitor seems like a separate item altogether, it doesnt say or even imply anywhere that the 380 is a gaming card for 4k.

It also doesn't say that the GPU is liquid cooled. The current Envy Phoenix computers have a CLC for the CPU, but not the GPU. Until it's mentioned there's no reason to think that HP is including a waterblock on the GPU.

 

[ocre]

There is also no reason to think that the 380 is anything. How are people determining that this means the 380 couldn't be Hawaii or tonga? There is very little to go on here but people have took this and ran fast to whatever their imagination desires.

With liquid cooling why couldn't it be a revamped hawaii?

None of this makes sense to me

The problem with this is that even a full Tonga (performance ~15% above R9 285, assuming perfect scaling) would only have about 65% as much performance as the GTX 980. Why would HP even offer it as an alternative to the 980 if this was the case?

I think we can discount a Hawaii rebrand, too - did you see the size of that Envy Phoenix case? No way is Hawaii going to provide acceptable thermals in something like that - not to mention that giving that option would require a beefed-up PSU compared to the 980. No, it doesn't add up - an OEM wouldn't do something like that just to throw AMD a bone.

This is the strongest evidence I've seen so far indicating that the R9 380 will be a completely new chip.

Don't think for a second that believe that the 380 will be a full tonga. That is not what I mean. I am just saying, for all we know it could be.

Why do you think this chip has to be as fast or faster than the 980? HP has many options, many different GPUs with different levels of performance.

The only thing I can see clear from this HP info is that AMD is launching a a new series and HP will be selling computers with these cards in them. What is really bizarre here is how nothing about that is unusual!!

HP sells PCs and have used AMD gpus before. A new series, heck I would be shocked if HP didn't offer systems with gpus from AMDs new lineup. Now that would be truly buzz worthy.

This doesn't prove anything. It doesn't mean the 380 will be 20nm. It doesn't mean it uses 150watts and is 20% faster than the 980. It doesn't mean that the 380 is a brand new design or that it is not based n Hawaii or tonga.
All it means is that HP will have offerings with AMDs next series gpu in them.