Bitcoin mining is ruining 280x prices for us

[fixxor]

Sold my sapphire 7950 I got for $209 + 3 games and $20 rebate for $385. Waiting for it to die down so I can get a 290.

 

[Arkaign]

This is going to hurt AMD long term unless the crypto mining becomes their prime market and sustains itself under increasing gov't scrutiny.

My brother and my best gaming buddy were both set on aftermarket 290s (waiting for the good cooler versions, they both hate noise), and both have now sold off their AMD GPUs to move to 770s and 780s. They love them now, gonna be a hard time motivating them to move again until at least Maxwell.

I want an OC edition 290 myself, but at these prices, I could get SLI 770s for close to the same price, and at 1920x1200 I'm probably better off with the 770s honestly.

 

[JumBie]

When the new AMD's came out a few months back, everyone was like WOW they just destroyed Nvidia in price to performance. Now Nvidia is looking like the more tempting deal, I really hope these prices drop soon because I am itching to get my hands on a new GPU.

 

[Insomniator]

welp, $385 would get me thinking again lol

 

[IndyColtsFan]

This is going to hurt AMD long term unless the crypto mining becomes their prime market and sustains itself under increasing gov't scrutiny.

My brother and my best gaming buddy were both set on aftermarket 290s (waiting for the good cooler versions, they both hate noise), and both have now sold off their AMD GPUs to move to 770s and 780s. They love them now, gonna be a hard time motivating them to move again until at least Maxwell.

Same story for me -- I was patiently waiting for non-reference cooled 290Xs to hit the market in sufficient quantity, but with the Bitcoin miners pushing up prices across the entire AMD line, I've pretty much given up and will go with a 770 or (more likely) a 780. I guess the bright side is that I can eBay my 6870 and get $60-$100 for it; I was expecting it to fetch far less.

 

[Rakehellion]

When the 280x first came out I was able to purchase one for around $349 if I wanted. Now its $439 like honestly wtf. Not only that, but they are sold out everywhere I look for them. At this point I'm going to have to settle for a 770 which is more expensive and doesn't perform as well. This bs has retailers jacking up prices because they know that people will buy these cards no matter the price, and I understand supply and demand but thats ruining it for us actual gamers who are purchasing this card for actual gaming use.

So you buy the most expensive GPU out there and complain when it's the most expensive GPU out there?

 

[nenforcer]

I was all set to purchase my first ATI / AMD graphics card as soon as the BF4 Mantle benchmarks came out.

When I saw the prices skyrocketing because of the mining craze and now that the BF4 Mantle patch has been delayed I went ahead and purchased a used PNY GTX 680 for less than $300 shipped.

The 770 @ $330 is a great buy consider it launched as the GTX 680 for $499 only a year and a half ago.

If Mantle / True Audio pans out I can always sell it and purchase an R9 290 once they are back down to $399.

I suspect by the time Maxwell launches in March their will be a huge supply of R9 270 / 280 / 290 cards on the market.

 

[wand3r3r]

I suspect by the time Maxwell launches in March their will be a huge supply of R9 270 / 280 / 290 cards on the market.

You're missing a big "if" they launch in March. Personally I'm expecting the next good (performance wise) launch to be later this year Q3 or Q4 (20nm).

 

[Borealis7]

the way i see it, AMD has 3 options now:
1) ignore the crypto-rush, keep current roadmaps and go on business as usual. (lose potential income)
2) create a special purpose SKU for mining, sell it at a mildly profitable price so that gaming cards go back to their normal pricing. (gain some money, gain some customers)
3) launch the R9-3XX series with hiked MSRPs to cash in on the crypto-rush (gain a lot of money, lose non-mining customers)

i hope they don't go for 3.

 

[Silverforce11]

the way i see it, AMD has 3 options now:
1) ignore the crypto-rush, keep current roadmaps and go on business as usual. (lose potential income)
2) create a special purpose SKU for mining, sell it at a profitable price so that gaming cards go back to their normal pricing. (gain some money, gain some customers)
3) launch the R9-3XX series with hiked MSRPs to cash in on the crypto-rush (gain a lot of money, lose non-mining customers)

i hope they don't go for 3.

1. how would they lose income when its sold out ASAP upon restocking?
2. would take time, R&D and $$ to develop. Intel or NV has the spare cash for these adventures. AMD needs to focus on its core graphics business.
3. not necessary since only USA etailers are price hiking. they are still MSRP in large parts of the globe. good ole american greed!

 

[Borealis7]

1) they lose potential income by not adjusting the MSRP of the cards.

 

[blackened23]

1. how would they lose income when its sold out ASAP upon restocking?
2. would take time, R&D and $$ to develop. Intel or NV has the spare cash for these adventures. AMD needs to focus on its core graphics business.
3. not necessary since only USA etailers are price hiking. they are still MSRP in large parts of the globe. good ole american greed!

Good ole American greed. That's a pretty incendiary comment, but prices here are mostly related to the fact that mining is way more popular in the states due to extremely cheap energy costs. That are a few outliers, but for the most part energy costs are extremely high in EU compared to the US - so that is a big reason why mining has not caught on there, while it has in the US. Cheap energy costs + cheap hardware in the states leads to a situation to where mining is profitable for a lot of folks (until mining implodes again) whereas it isn't profitable for the vast majority of EU. Hardware prices are higher in many countries, as are energy costs. Net effect? Not many people mining in EU aside from a few outlier countries. Such as Iceland. Therefore their MSRP costs haven't been affected to the same extent.

AMD is making money in the short term, but the actual intended demographic - PC gamers - are more loyal and tend to be repeat customers, whereas miners don't care. There are tons of miners that don't give a crap about PC gaming so they will not be repeat customers if mining implodes. So we have a situation where NV is selling more cards to gamers by a large margin, because few are willing to pay over MSRP in the states. Here is amazon.com's top sales list, updated hourly:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...22/ref=sr_bs_1

Nvidia dominates the entire top 100, and amazon is the biggest etailer in the US. Nvidia is selling a ton of GPUs and they're making a ton of money, all the while gamers who would potentially consider AMD in the US will not do so when their MSRP prices are inflated. So traditional "red" gamers are going green now, and once they try the green side ecosystem they could perhaps be repeat customers. So AMD is making cash in the short term. But are they getting loyal customers? I'd argue that they aren't. Once mining isn't profitable, those customers who only mine won't be returning IMO. Dedicated miners don't give a crap about what GPU is in their system. They only care about hashrate, period. Not repeat customers, no loyalty.

I think that offering a dedicated mining SKU would be a great thing because it solves the problem on all fronts. USA is a huge market for both AMD and nvidia, so if AMD does this (a dedicated mining SKU) they will throw miners a bone with a dedicated mining card without the extraneous parts, the problem will be solved for gamers and miners.. People who won't consider AMD for PC gaming right now *will* consider them if the prices for AMD cards are at MSRP. But most of them absolutely will not pay 100$+ over MSRP. We're in a situation in the states where nvidia is a better value across the board. So of course the actual intended demographic of PC gamers aren't going to buy AMD unless they're concerned about hashrate and mining.

 

[caswow]

AMD should hire some of you guys and their crystal ball:thumbsup:

 

[ShintaiDK]

Raise MSRP in the US alone means parallel imports and you are back to start.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

I think that offering a dedicated mining SKU would be a great thing because it solves the problem on all fronts.

AMD might want to consider that. Nvidia is catching up. The latest version of CudaMiner allows for GK110 to push 700 kH/s, and do 500 kH/s at much more reasonable power usage than it previously did (getting closer to 2kH/s per 1W).

 

[Imouto]

Reading this thread is so instructive.

So ppl in the USA go to Newegg or Amazon for a new card. Check some prices, check some reviews and discard AMD cards because they're $100 above MSRP when they can offset that with mining the first month? WOW dude, just wow.

This is more likely a combination of casual/pro miners and gamers that can't justify spending $500 on a GFX card and suddenly a high end card is way more affordable.

If I was in the USA looking for a GFX card for gaming I would go AMD all the way MSRP or $100 above and that's likely what's happening here. Ppl that usually set for a $200 card suddenly aiming for a $500+ one and AMD high end sold out across the board.

AMD might want to consider that. Nvidia is catching up. The latest version of CudaMiner allows for GK110 to push 700 kH/s, and do 500 kH/s at much more reasonable power usage than it previously did (getting closer to 2kH/s per 1W).

700 kH/s throwing the efficiency in the toilet. 500 kH/s is still in the 7970/280X realm.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

If I was in the USA looking for a GFX card for gaming I would go AMD all the way MSRP or $100 above and that's likely what's happening here. Ppl that usually set for a $200 card suddenly aiming for a $500+ one and AMD high end sold out across the board..

If you want to spend above msrp feel free to do so......

Most of us will wait until reality returns. The ones who can't will end up buying 7xx team green cards because they are in stock and represent a good value.

I'm betting that by spring there will be PLENTY of cards for all. The bubble will pop and AMD will have over-produced. By the time fall rolls around you'll be able to score a 290 with freebie games for around $200.-

Yeah, us silly 'mericans

 

[njdevilsfan87]

700 kH/s throwing the efficiency in the toilet. 500 kH/s is still in the 7970/280X realm.

I know. But, it wasn't too long ago when 450 kH/s was the number that threw efficiency in the toilet on my Titans.

All I'm really saying is that one of the reasons great reasons to own an AMD gaming card is now only a good reason. Especially with these inflated prices. A gamer can buy a R9 290 for $500 and mine at 850 kH/s overnight or a GTX 780 and mine at 550 kH/s with a similar power draw. The difference isn't that big anymore. For dedicated miners, AMD is still the obvious choice, but for gamers on the fence who view incoming through mining as just a bonus... not so much anymore.

 

[Imouto]

If you want to spend above msrp feel free to do so......

Most of us will wait until reality returns. The ones who can't will end up buying 7xx team green cards because they are in stock and represent a good value.

I'm betting that by spring there will be PLENTY of cards for all. The bubble will pop and AMD will have over-produced. By the time fall rolls around you'll be able to score a 290 with freebie games for around $200.-

Guys at AMD are way smarter than you, if they feel like steeping the production will be based on actual facts, not some random posts on a random forum claiming to be the mindset of a quite large group of potential customers. Even with more production you're not AMD's customer, AIBs are. Production is based on their ordering, not yours, so if anyone is taking damage for too much production that's AIBs, not AMD.

After this incident AMD and/or its AIBs would be stupid to not force retailers to stick to MSRP or allow only minor variations franchise like.

That said I don't really know how you consider something a better value when it's returning you money. It's like the solar cell frenzy going on now. I don't know why some ppl turn it down when it will save you thousands in the long term.

Yeah, us silly 'mericans

http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10...-about-this-mind-blowing-fact-2?g=3&c=reccon1

I know. But, it wasn't too long ago when 450 kH/s was the number that threw efficiency in the toilet on my Titans.

All I'm really saying is that one of the reasons great reasons to own an AMD gaming card is now only a good reason. Especially with these inflated prices. A gamer can buy a R9 290 for $500 and mine at 850 kH/s overnight or a GTX 780 and mine at 550 kH/s with a similar power draw. The difference isn't that big anymore. For dedicated miners, AMD is still the obvious choice, but for gamers on the fence who view incoming through mining as just a bonus... not so much anymore.

The cards doing 550 kH/s at a sane power consumption are the GTX 780 Ti, not the regular ones.

 

[nwo]

1) they lose potential income by not adjusting the MSRP of the cards.

They don't need to adjust, the retailer inflates the prices above MSRP. MSRP is there for a reason and it is likely to stay there once the mining bubble bursts or once AMD gets over this hump and is able to keep up with the supply which should not be an issue.

 

[Borat]

deleted

Profanity isn't allowed in the technical forums.
-- stahlhart

 

[njdevilsfan87]

The cards doing 550 kH/s at a sane power consumption are the GTX 780 Ti, not the regular ones.

I'm getting 1100kH/s out of two Titans running about 90% power usage (90% 300W = 270W per GPU). That's 0.985v @ 1006mhz per Titan. I myself put 300W as the limit of sane power usage per GPU. I guess it just depends on your definition of sane. I've gone as high as 450W per GPU (only briefly) when pushing 1400kH/s total just to see the ceiling.

 

[Imouto]

I'm getting 1100kH/s out of two Titans running about 90% power usage (90% 300W = 270W per GPU). That's 0.985v @ 1006mhz per Titan. I myself put 300W as the limit of sane power usage per GPU. I guess it just depends on your definition of sane. I've gone as high as 450W per GPU (only briefly) when pushing 1400kH/s total just to see the ceiling.

I'm confused. So when you said GTX 780 you actually meant Titan? A water cooled Titan on top of that?

 

[46andtool]

Ok, this might be a pointless question because no one knows the answer just yet, but does anyone have a guess as to when this whole lite-coin mining thing will take a dive in profitability?

But I guess that even when it does a different coin will become popular, until thousands of people mining it make the value sore or crash so that its no longer smart to even attempt to mine.

I'd love to be able to pick up one of the new custom cooled r290s right now but I cant justify the damn markup on the things.

 

[nwo]

BTW, what's the point of all the other coins that they come out with? They're completely dependent on bitcoin anyhow.

Pump and dump with a little bit of speculation on the side.