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Biological Immortality.

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Originally posted by: kobymu
genes is not us.
----us is the entire package-----
genes are just a part of us


think about identical twins, they are NOT the some
Click to expand...


shilala! would you like to comment about identical twins now? 😀
 
Originally posted by: Gibsons

Yes, your argument was a restatement of Pascal's wager. It gets posted on just about every thread like this.
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You may be right (as I have only discovered this), but I didn't know that this argument was already put in a structured form until you mentioned Pascal's wager! 🙂

Originally posted by: Gibsons
The assumption you make is that you are worshiping the correct god.
Click to expand...

True. But is there any other way to salvation? The "correct" god is among these very gods which this argument invites you to believe in. There are many, of course. Chances of picking the right one out are slim. But you, as a human being, have the gift of logic and reason to make wise decisions and narrow down the possibilities. Use it.
 
Originally posted by: kobymu
genes is not us.
----us is the entire package-----
genes are just a part of us


think about identical twins, they are NOT the some
Click to expand...

Please post pics of hot identical twins as proof.
 
Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
I feel that it's necessary to voice my opinion on this subject since this topic comes up repeatedly in different forms.

Considering your other post on God, it seems that you are really afraid of death, like most atheists. You seem to believe that death is oblivion. That's not true. Is it? Do you know for sure?

Where does the mind go after death? It has to exist somewhere, in some form. Your consciousness can't fade into a void. Otherwise, dreams have no basis.

Following this train of logic, death leads to eternal oblivion. Not a very heartening outcome. Isn't it more encouraging then, to have faith in God. I would take the latter over the former anyday of the week.

Well, if God doesn't exist or in other words, heaven and hell don't exist, then I have wasted my life worshiping a non-entity. Not true. Such a life gives one purpose, meaning, order and direction. Most importantly, hope. That is something exclusive for people who have faith.

What if you wake up one day and discover that heaven and hell do exist. That leaves you in a position that is entirely hopeless. God, if He is just, then, can't treat you the same as someone who has spent his/her whole life in His sincere worship and devotion. Why not be on the safe side?
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Wow. If that is the basis for your religious faith, then that's really, really sad.
 
Originally posted by: kobymu
Originally posted by: shilala
That's right. Sort of like something that's programmed into the cell to prevent immortality.
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and cancer!

/edit fixed
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I'm missing the connection?
Cancer is a simple mutation that (unfortunately) can replicate unchecked in it's new environment.
Cancer, in and of itself, is not passed on through the genes. The body's propensity to be lacking of certain proteins or to actually have certain proteins that cause or prevent the body from attacking a random mutation is passed on.
(What a fvcked up sentence)
It's an odds game.
Even if you have a great propensity for cancer, it doesn't mean it will happen. You may have a very low propensity and get cancer. There's 11tybeelion things that can stimulate mutation. There's 11tybeelion protein strings/compounds in your body waiting to destroy the resultant mutation.
Getting cancer boils down to plain shyt luck.
Prevention is impossible (and will likely remain that way). A cure is very possible. A cure for every type of cancer? Improbable, but it'll happen in time.

 
Originally posted by: kobymu
Originally posted by: Promethply
Our progenies will carry on our genes, and as such, in a sense, we will live forever 🙂
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Our genes are not US,Our progenies are not US

us is our thought/memories/personalities.
without them we are just animal that continue to multiply (and evolve) and dont live on in our "progenies".

Our progenies are not a continuns of us but just "other" with some of there genes identical to ours
Click to expand...

But of course -- doesn't everyone knows that already? Every living organisms have a set of genes that's uniquely defines it, unless they are identical twins or the product of asexual reproduction, such as in bacteria, for example.

Every sexual reproduction involves exchange of genetic material between chromosomes (crossover) ensuring that our offspring will never be exactly like us.

I stated that "in a sense, we will live forever", meaning that some of our genes will be carried over by our offspring.

You have a great capacity for stating the obvious.
 
Originally posted by: shilala
Originally posted by: kobymu
Originally posted by: shilala
That's right. Sort of like something that's programmed into the cell to prevent immortality.
Click to expand...

and cancer!

/edit fixed
Click to expand...

I'm missing the connection?
Cancer is a simple mutation that (unfortunately) can replicate unchecked in it's new environment.
Cancer, in and of itself, is not passed on through the genes. The body's propensity to be lacking of certain proteins or to actually have certain proteins that cause or prevent the body from attacking a random mutation is passed on.
(What a fvcked up sentence)
It's an odds game.
Even if you have a great propensity for cancer, it doesn't mean it will happen. You may have a very low propensity and get cancer. There's 11tybeelion things that can stimulate mutation. There's 11tybeelion protein strings/compounds in your body waiting to destroy the resultant mutation.
Getting cancer boils down to plain shyt luck.
Prevention is impossible (and will likely remain that way). A cure is very possible. A cure for every type of cancer? Improbable, but it'll happen in time.
Click to expand...


Telomeres limit the total number of times a cell can divide. In order for a cancer to progress, it must, somehow, overcome this limitation. If it doesn't, it simply stops dividing eventually.
 
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Wow. If that is the basis for your religious faith, then that's really, really sad.
Click to expand...

Wow. Thanks for interpreting my entire post as the "basis" of my faith. I was simply trying to appeal to the sense of logic and reason of the original poster. I think the occasion really calls for me to use, for the the first time, the emoticon: :disgust:
 
some cancer (cell not tumor) hit the limit of cell division before they grow to much for the rest of the system to recognize that something is wrong.
cell division limit is one of the mechanism that help reduce cancer cell to evolve to cancer tumor(cancer always start at the cellular level).

if that is unclear or something, post and i'll explain
 
Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
Originally posted by: Gibsons

Yes, your argument was a restatement of Pascal's wager. It gets posted on just about every thread like this.
Click to expand...

You may be right (as I have only discovered this), but I didn't know that this argument was already put in a structured form until you mentioned Pascal's wager! 🙂

Originally posted by: Gibsons
The assumption you make is that you are worshiping the correct god.
Click to expand...

True. But is there any other way to salvation? The "correct" god is among these very gods which this argument invites you to believe in. There are many, of course. Chances of picking the right one out are slim. But you, as a human being, have the gift of logic and reason to make wise decisions and narrow down the possibilities. Use it.
Click to expand...

Salvation? Can you prove salvation exists?

More assumptions. Even if there is a correct god (that's an assumption), how do we know that we even know it's among the ones we know about? Perhaps the slime beings of Bolthazad 4 are correct in worshiping Crumulon of the Great Flagella, and all of ours are wrong. And finally, maybe our supposed god doesn't give a crap if we believe in him or worship him.

All irrelevant anyway, as the Great Blue Unicorn from the Dark Side of the Moon is the One True God.

 
Originally posted by: Promethply
But of course -- doesn't everyone knows that already? Every living organisms have a set of genes that's uniquely defines it, unless they are identical twins or the product of asexual reproduction, such as in bacteria, for example.

Every sexual reproduction involves exchange of genetic material between chromosomes (crossover) ensuring that our offspring will never be exactly like us.

I stated that "in a sense, we will live forever", meaning that some of our genes will be carried over by our offspring.
Click to expand...

hooooo "in a sense" ......well now that changes everything :laugh:


edited to add myoooo

myoooo
 
Originally posted by: Gibsons
Salvation? Can you prove salvation exists?
Click to expand...

Same as asking if God exists. Because if He exists, then salvation exists. That's not even what we are talking about. My point, still being, what if it does exist, what then? Where do you go?

Originally posted by: Gibsons
More assumptions. Even if there is a correct god (that's an assumption), how do we know that we even know it's among the ones we know about? Perhaps the slime beings of Bolthazad 4 are correct in worshiping Crumulon of the Great Flagella, and all of ours are wrong. And finally, maybe our supposed god doesn't give a crap if we believe in him or worship him.

All irrelevant anyway, as the Great Blue Unicorn from the Dark Side of the Moon is the One True God.
Click to expand...

All good points. The real question remains: what security do you have from hell, if it exists? I believe in God, the chances of whose existence are, say 1 in a million, according to an atheist. That's still a chance, albeit a very small one. What chance/hope do you have of not meeting eternal damnation? None.

By "you", I generally mean an atheist, not necessarily you, Gibsons. I don't know if you are one.
 
Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
Originally posted by: Gibsons
Salvation? Can you prove salvation exists?
Click to expand...

Same as asking if God exists. Because if He exists, then salvation exists. That's not even what we are talking about. My point, still being, what if it does exist, what then? Where do you go?

Originally posted by: Gibsons
More assumptions. Even if there is a correct god (that's an assumption), how do we know that we even know it's among the ones we know about? Perhaps the slime beings of Bolthazad 4 are correct in worshiping Crumulon of the Great Flagella, and all of ours are wrong. And finally, maybe our supposed god doesn't give a crap if we believe in him or worship him.

All irrelevant anyway, as the Great Blue Unicorn from the Dark Side of the Moon is the One True God.
Click to expand...

All good points. The real question remains: what security do you have from hell, if it exists? I believe in God, the chances of whose existence are, say 1 in a million, according to an atheist. That's still a chance, albeit a very small one. What chance/hope do you have of not meeting eternal damnation? None.

By "you", I generally mean an atheist, not necessarily you, Gibsons. I don't know if you are one.
Click to expand...

atheists believe that there is no god. agnostic are the ones who say they will believe in god if proof is discovered.
 
Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
Originally posted by: Gibsons
Salvation? Can you prove salvation exists?
Click to expand...

Same as asking if God exists. Because if He exists, then salvation exists. That's not even what we are talking about. My point, still being, what if it does exist, what then? Where do you go?

Originally posted by: Gibsons
More assumptions. Even if there is a correct god (that's an assumption), how do we know that we even know it's among the ones we know about? Perhaps the slime beings of Bolthazad 4 are correct in worshiping Crumulon of the Great Flagella, and all of ours are wrong. And finally, maybe our supposed god doesn't give a crap if we believe in him or worship him.

All irrelevant anyway, as the Great Blue Unicorn from the Dark Side of the Moon is the One True God.
Click to expand...

All good points. The real question remains: what security do you have from hell, if it exists? I believe in God, the chances of whose existence are, say 1 in a million, according to an atheist. That's still a chance, albeit a very small one. What chance/hope do you have of not meeting eternal damnation? None.

By "you", I generally mean an atheist, not necessarily you, Gibsons. I don't know if you are one.
Click to expand...

I think that doesn't constitute belief or faith, but rather hedging a bet. Perhaps that's sufficient reason for damnation also?

You assume the existence of a god, an afterlife, a judgement, to know the basis of that judgement and the consequences of said judgement. Six assumptions all piled on top of each other. But your only basis for distinguishing between the possibilities of any of them is some oddsmaking in order to max out your chances for playing harps in the clouds.

fwiw, this argument has been done to death by people much better at it than you or me. I've probably heard every argument you're going to make, you can find any counter-argument I make out there somewhere too.
 
Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
Where does the mind go after death? It has to exist somewhere, in some form. Your consciousness can't fade into a void. Otherwise, dreams have no basis.
Click to expand...

This isn't true. If consciousness is nothing more than electrical charges shifting across the surface of neurons then, when the cells die, the consciousness dies too. Your statement about dreams doesn't make much sense. Dreams can exist if the mind is a product of biology.
 
I can almost guarantee you will not find a "cure" for aging. You might develop some kind of treatment to extend it, but not cure it. How about linking to some real science journals instead of bs online websites?
 
Originally posted by: shilala
Originally posted by: Gibsons
Originally posted by: kobymu
genes is not us.
----us is the entire package-----
genes are just a part of us


think about identical twins, they are NOT the some
Click to expand...


shilala! would you like to comment about identical twins now? 😀
Click to expand...

Absolutely.
Identical (and consequentially yummy) twins.
Thanks for the opportunity, Gib. 😉
Click to expand...

Words escape me -- WoooW, 2 X (Hubba, Hubba, Hubba) 😀

 
If death = oblivion then you wouldn't know about it anyway, so what's the difference?

I'd rather live a happy and short life rather than a long sad one (since I'd see everyone I know die), and end up looking like a raisin in the end.
 
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