Billionaire Tom Steyer Drops Out Of 2020 Presidential Race

[JEDIYoda]

This is simply not a workable plan.

Exactly!!!
It is not workable, but it sounds good to the people voring who have college debt.....this is a go nowhere program!!

 

[BUTCH1]

Then also add in the people that saved up or worked off debt. They going to be pissed paying for others that didn't and still carry huge loans.

Then there's the majority who didn't/won't go to college, and will not want to blow trillions on rich college kids, and want the money spent elsewhere (or not spent at all) and giving colleges blank checks to jack up prices.

This is simply not a workable plan.

LOL, wow, so those who got the high-paying jobs in the required fields and paid off the loans would get reimbursed as well?, damm, that would cost a bundle. I can see where a young person who wanted a higher education might take that gamble but doubt anyone underwriting these loans did much in the way of consoling these people of the amount of a risk it really is. My neighbor's kid went to a music production school in Miami to the tune of $35K, he used the house as collateral to get the loan, kid, (he's now 29) is still paying off at $375/month, he works at a local beverage distributor, guess everyone was gonna be a "rap star" LOL.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yea, Bernie got the younger crowd highly energized with the "free healthcare!", "forgive all student debt!", ect. ect. Gee, I would have loved to attend a 4-year program when I was younger but I could not afford it, so now we, as in all the rest of the taxpayers, are supposed to eat all those loans and they get the degree's for zero?, FUCK THAT. There are plenty of trades many of these people could have gone into, pipe-fitter's, mechanics, electricians, welders are all in short supply these days and the pay is good. Seems no one wants to get their hands dirty anymore, they borrowed up to and well over $100k and now cry about a debt that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy and will follow them everywhere, oh well, maybe hey should have thought more seriously about what they were getting into.

That's not historically correct. With the de-industrialization of America lots of Boomer age tradesmen had to find other lines of work. Employers enjoyed a glut of tradesmen so the impetus for apprentices just wasn't there. Only the retirement of that cohort is creating such incentives. During the great recession opportunities for young workers were quite scarce, so they got parked in getting degrees & racking up debt.

And, uhh, if America has decided that people don't have the sense to drink responsibly before they're 21 we probably shouldn't let them make major financial decisions at 18.

It's also the usual bullshit culture warrior whining about somebody else getting free shit that you don't.

 

[Muse]

oh well, maybe hey should have thought more seriously about what they were getting into.

It's hard to know what you're getting into when you are in college for a lot of people. You're 20 years old and are supposed to know what job opportunities are going to exist when you graduate? Sounds to me like you're bitter than some people may have it better than you so you don't want to support making things better. Check yourself out.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Let me go out on a limb and say Amy Klobuchar will not carry her home state.......

 

[BUTCH1]

It's hard to know what you're getting into when you are in college for a lot of people. You're 20 years old and are supposed to know what job opportunities are going to exist when you graduate? Sounds to me like you're bitter than some people may have it better than you so you don't want to support making things better. Check yourself out.

I don't have a problem with "making things better" as in extending the time period or terms that these loans currently have but fair is fair, if everyone knew that these loans were going to be forgiven down the line then a lot more people would have gone to a 4 year degree program.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

It's hard to know what you're getting into when you are in college for a lot of people. You're 20 years old and are supposed to know what job opportunities are going to exist when you graduate? Sounds to me like you're bitter than some people may have it better than you so you don't want to support making things better. Check yourself out.

I got a felony when I was 18. I was a dumb kid. I've lived with that ever since. Ive overcome it. Believe me it's not been an easy road. I've accepted that I made the choices that led me down this path. I only wish my biggest mistake in life was getting a college degree and the debt that came with that. It's laughable that these poor kids can't possibly deal with that. Get real man.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I don't have a problem with "making things better" as in extending the time period or terms that these loans currently have but fair is fair, if everyone knew that these loans were going to be forgiven down the line then a lot more people would have gone to a 4 year degree program.

We're supposed to pay for their student loans and then pay for their healthcare. Hopefully Bernie throws in a first car loan forgiveness program as well. I mean those poor kids didn't understand interest rates or debt to income ratio.

 

[fskimospy]

Student loans were and are an extremely bad idea, borne from the fact that the boomers didn’t feel like paying to educate their children in the way their parents paid to educate them. We should stop issuing them immediately.

People get way too hung up on public policy as a morality play - the only thing that matters is if the US as a whole would be better off with some sort of loan forgiveness. It almost certainly would, so who gives a fuck about if people would have made different choices knowing of future forgiveness. Public policy changes all the time and you could make the same arguments for anything. Federal tax policy changed in 2018 to significantly reduce the value of owning a home in my state. Should all homeowners in New York State get cut a check because if they had known of this policy change they might have acted differently? Of course not.

To be clear this comes from someone who has never taken out a single dollar in student loans.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

It's very well known and has been for many years that getting into a big student loan debt is a bad thing. This isn't like smoking back in the 60s when no one knew better.

 

[IronWing]

Bernie is focusing on the wrong end of the problem. Student loans are high because college costs have skyrocketed over the past three decades and state appropriations and student financial aid have not kept pace. On the cost side, quite frankly, academia needs an attitude adjustment and a hair cut. On the funding side, voters need to decide what kind of country they want. Endless tax cuts at the expense of education is stupid public policy unless your goal is an oligarchy with a handful of rich, well educated families and masses of uneducated peons to serve them.

Pell grants: recipients, maximum Pell and average Pell – Research – College Board

The share of undergraduate students receiving Pell Grants rose from 26% in 2008-09 to a peak of 38% in 2011-12. It then declined steadily to 31% in 2018-19. Download PDF Key Points The number of undergraduates declined by 2.9 million (12%) between 2011-12 and 2018-19. The number of Pell Grant...

research.collegeboard.org

 

[fskimospy]

It's very well known and has been for many years that getting into a big student loan debt is a bad thing. This isn't like smoking back in the 60s when no one knew better.

It was very well known in the 60’s that smoking was bad for you, lol.

Again, this isn’t a morality play. If it makes America better off we should do it even if it hurts people’s feelings.

 

[fskimospy]

Bernie is focusing on the wrong end of the problem. Student loans are high because college costs have skyrocketed over the past three decades and state appropriations and student financial aid have not kept pace. On the cost side, quite frankly, academia needs an attitude adjustment and a hair cut. On the funding side, voters need to decide what kind of country they want. Endless tax cuts at the expense of education is stupid public policy unless your goal is an oligarchy with a handful of rich, well educated families and masses of uneducated peons to serve them.

Pell grants: recipients, maximum Pell and average Pell – Research – College Board

The share of undergraduate students receiving Pell Grants rose from 26% in 2008-09 to a peak of 38% in 2011-12. It then declined steadily to 31% in 2018-19. Download PDF Key Points The number of undergraduates declined by 2.9 million (12%) between 2011-12 and 2018-19. The number of Pell Grant...

research.collegeboard.org

It depends. For community colleges and state teaching universities per pupil costs have basically kept in line with inflation. It’s the top flight research universities and private schools that have seen costs explode.

In this way it seems the answers do dovetail pretty well. If you make state teaching universities free (or really just low cost, they should not be free) you put huge pressure on those elite universities to justify their price.

 

[sandorski]

Then also add in the people that saved up or worked off debt. They going to be pissed paying for others that didn't and still carry huge loans.

Then there's the majority who didn't/won't go to college, and will not want to blow trillions on rich college kids, and want the money spent elsewhere (or not spent at all) and giving colleges blank checks to jack up prices.

This is simply not a workable plan.

You can't exit Iraq, because of all the Dead and Permanently Disabled Vets!

That is your argument.

What are the issues of the Day? Are they not Healthcare? Excessively high Higher Education Cost? Does addressing these issues merely indicate Vote Buying?

 

[fskimospy]

You can't exit Iraq, because of all the Dead and Permanently Disabled Vets!

That is your argument.

What are the issues of the Day? Are they not Healthcare? Excessively high Higher Education Cost? Does addressing these issues merely indicate Vote Buying?

How dare politicians attempt to get people to vote for them by saying they will improve their lives!

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

It was very well known in the 60’s that smoking was bad for you, lol.

Again, this isn’t a morality play. If it makes America better off we should do it even if it hurts people’s feelings.

Is that why they had commercials saying doctors recommend such and such cigarettes?

 

[sandorski]

Is that why they had commercials saying doctors recommend such and such cigarettes?

Are you a Bot? Srsly.

 

[fskimospy]

Is that why they had commercials saying doctors recommend such and such cigarettes?

Are you saying people in the 60’s were too dumb to know that commercials are dishonest? The dangers of smoking were well publicized by the 1960’s.

Sounds like by your logic we shouldn’t contribute to the medical care of these people - it’s not my fault they made bad life choices and they should live with the consequences. Agree?

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Are you a Bot? Srsly.

No. Just a minority that came from a fucked up family, fucked up childhood, grew up in a trailer park, had a felony before I even got started in life, and still somehow survived. I'm sick of these pansy ass bitches making excuses for everyone. It's hard out there for us all. Make your own way. Quit hoping and waiting on someone else to fix your life.

 

[fskimospy]

No. Just a minority that came from a fucked up family, fucked up childhood, grew up in a trailer park, had a felony before I even got started in life, and still somehow survived. I'm sick of these pansy ass bitches making excuses for everyone. It's hard out there for us all. Make your own way. Quit hoping and waiting on someone else to fix your life.

Do you see any incongruity between this statement and you excusing the obviously bad choice to smoke in the 60’s?

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Are you saying people in the 60’s were too dumb to know that commercials are dishonest? The dangers of smoking were well publicized by the 1960’s.

Sounds like by your logic we shouldn’t contribute to the medical care of these people - it’s not my fault they made bad life choices and they should live with the consequences. Agree?

If you are over a certain age or don't make enough money then we should help those people. A healthy young adult with a college degree? Absolutely not.

 

[sandorski]

No. Just a minority that came from a fucked up family, fucked up childhood, grew up in a trailer park, had a felony before I even got started in life, and still somehow survived. I'm sick of these pansy ass bitches making excuses for everyone. It's hard out there for us all. Make your own way. Quit hoping and waiting on someone else to fix your life.

So, you're an Edgelord. Think more, Edge less.

 

[fskimospy]

If you are over a certain age or don't make enough money then we should help those people. A healthy young adult with a college degree? Absolutely not.

The older someone is the lower their student debt burden is likely to be because they were able to go to college when it was cheaper. If we're forgiving debt then why are we forgiving it to the people who paid the least to begin with?

I think blanket student loan forgiveness is probably unnecessary and we can have some sort of sliding income scale.

 

[Muse]

Let me go out on a limb and say Amy Klobuchar will not carry her home state.......

I actually think she might be the best candidate. AFAIK, she's a tougher target for Trump than the others. He likes to find something he can zero in on, doesn't matter how cheap a shot, how absurd or ridiculous it is. A physical characteristic, age, an ethnicity related thing, something out of their past... anything. I don't see a target on Amy's back. Plus she's younger than Trump, he's progressively losing the few marbles he had. She would relish digging into his prodigious pot of weaknesses, exposing the absurdity of him being POTUS.

 

[Muse]

I got a felony when I was 18. I was a dumb kid. I've lived with that ever since. Ive overcome it. Believe me it's not been an easy road. I've accepted that I made the choices that led me down this path. I only wish my biggest mistake in life was getting a college degree and the debt that came with that. It's laughable that these poor kids can't possibly deal with that. Get real man.

I'm not laughing. It wouldn't be funny to be 30, making 30-50k a year, have 100k debt and barely squeak by. I was lucky, my dad paid for my higher education, well, most of it. At the end, I took on some debt but paid it off pretty easily, it wasn't a lot. Still, it was hard to get my feet under me even with a degree. Mostly, they didn't care if I had a degree or not. I had an advisor or two at the U but they were pretty useless to me. Mostly the U seemed like a free for all (funny words), where you could study just about anything, but how would you know what employment opportunities they might lead to. I didn't have a vision of what career would work for me, so I just took classes either in what I excelled at or things I was genuinely curious about, especially the latter until they changed policy and forced me to focus and graduate.