Billionaire Tom Steyer Drops Out Of 2020 Presidential Race

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sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,582
2,817
136
Student loan debt isn't a felony nor is a felony student loan debt.

We've seen a push from the right AND left for criminal justice reform. It's almost purely social policy, having minimal economic benefit but alleviating a burden on offenders for society's benefit.

Student loan forgiveness not only has societal benefits but it also has huge economic benefits. It would free up billions and billions in middle class spending power each year, the kind of spending that ACTUALLY drives the US economy.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,944
2,175
126
^Yeah as I understand it, student loan forgiveness isn't out of the goodness of Bernie's heart, it will have many positive effects for the American economy and for the day to day life of people in general.

I've paid off my student loans as of a couple of years ago, but I wouldn't complain about it if they did something similar here in Canada. Life's not always fair. I'm sure I paid less than some students do now.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,004
8,040
136
^Yeah as I understand it, student loan forgiveness isn't out of the goodness of Bernie's heart, it will have many positive effects for the American economy and for the day to day life of people in general.

That is a previously unconsidered benefit. Makes perfect sense though.
 
May 13, 2009
12,333
612
126
Student loan debt isn't a felony nor is a felony student loan debt.

We've seen a push from the right AND left for criminal justice reform. It's almost purely social policy, having minimal economic benefit but alleviating a burden on offenders for society's benefit.

Student loan forgiveness not only has societal benefits but it also has huge economic benefits. It would free up billions and billions in middle class spending power each year, the kind of spending that ACTUALLY drives the US economy.
What about those that didn't go to school, or they paid off their loans, and or they worked their asses off for a scholarship? Now they are supposed to pay for those that didn't do the same? My wife was told by her mother at a young age that she wasn't going to be able to offer her any financial help for her to go to college. My wife worked her ass off and ended up getting a full ride scholarship. Now you expect her to pay for your education because you didn't do the same? Not a chance.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
136
What about those that didn't go to school, or they paid off their loans, and or they worked their asses off for a scholarship? Now they are supposed to pay for those that didn't do the same? My wife was told by her mother at a young age that she wasn't going to be able to offer her any financial help for her to go to college. My wife worked her ass off and ended up getting a full ride scholarship. Now you expect her to pay for your education because you didn't do the same? Not a chance.

What about when we instituted free K-12 education in the 1800's? Why should the people who didn't have free K-12 pay for the kids who did? I mean apply that logic to literally any public policy.

The only question is if the policy is a good idea or not and if it will make the country better off. Otherwise the argument is basically 'we should keep doing this dumb thing because we did this dumb thing before.' No thanks!
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,582
2,817
136
What about those that didn't go to school, or they paid off their loans, and or they worked their asses off for a scholarship? Now they are supposed to pay for those that didn't do the same? My wife was told by her mother at a young age that she wasn't going to be able to offer her any financial help for her to go to college. My wife worked her ass off and ended up getting a full ride scholarship. Now you expect her to pay for your education because you didn't do the same? Not a chance.
Well, I went to public school for elementary and high school, then I went to a public university for undergrad and a different public university for grad school. So yes, she did pay for my education if she lived in the same communities I did. That's the thing with education, it is a public good so society has elected to subsidize the cost.

The position you take is just a spin on "FYGM!" It ignores any of the social and/or economic benefits of a particular policy proposal solely on the grounds that you don't personally realize the immediate benefits of the policy proposed.

There are all sorts of public benefit arrangements like this, one you don't even know exist. If we made policy decisions based on your logic then society would be much worse off.
 
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May 13, 2009
12,333
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Well, I went to public school for elementary and high school, then I went to a public university for undergrad and a different public university for grad school. So yes, she did pay for my education if she lived in the same communities I did. That's the thing with education, it is a public good so society has elected to subsidize the cost.

The position you take is just a spin on "FYGM!" It ignores any of the social and/or economic benefits of a particular policy proposal solely on the grounds that you don't personally realize the immediate benefits of the policy proposed.

There are all sorts of public benefit arrangements like this, one you don't even know exist. If we made policy decisions based on your logic then society would be much worse off.
I'd much rather support something like free public transportation in poor areas so people could go to work. Or building manufacturing facilities in areas with a depressed economy.
There are many better causes out there than helping some upper middle class kid pay for his college. Especially when they are perfectly capable of doing it themselves.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,944
2,175
126
I'd much rather support something like free public transportation in poor areas so people could go to work. Or building manufacturing facilities in areas with a depressed economy.
There are many better causes out there than helping some upper middle class kid pay for his college. Especially when they are perfectly capable of doing it themselves.
I agree with you to a certain extent. As someone else mentioned, maybe free is not the answer, maybe low cost (compared to now) is a better solution. Again, there are long term benefits to the US economy to doing something to address this...not just to the person's wallet.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
You can't exit Iraq, because of all the Dead and Permanently Disabled Vets!

That is your argument.

What are the issues of the Day? Are they not Healthcare? Excessively high Higher Education Cost? Does addressing these issues merely indicate Vote Buying?

There is a clear problem:
A. college costs rising faster than inflation.
B. Increasing need for highly trained workforce.

The issue is the solution.
Bernie answer:
Make all college free, retroactively forgive all outstanding student loan debt (Trillions)

You can fix the problem in many different ways. Bernie's maximalist answer is the most expensive, most divisive, and unlikely to solve root cause.
-> WHY are costs rising so fast?
-> Is a four year degree the only way to train the needed workforce of the future?