Bill O'Reilly surprised black people know how to behave...

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: nick1985
Actually you can hear the unedited discussion on his website. After you listen (which you wont) you will come to find your MediaMatters (blatantly biased liberal site) is the one doing the spinning.


*edit*

Click me


Its amazing how you guys can spin. Orielly has a long discussion condemning racism and discussing why its still prevalent in American society...yet its spun to make him look racist. LOL, say what you want about Orielly, but this is just stupid.

I'm sorry... I might be what you call a liberal spinning it, but here is the trasncript:

"I couldn't get over the fact that there was no difference between Sylvia's restaurant and any other restaurant in New York City. I mean, it was exactly the same, even though it's run by blacks, primarily black patronship." Later, during a discussion with National Public Radio senior correspondent and Fox News contributor Juan Williams about the effect of rap on culture, O'Reilly asserted: "There wasn't one person in Sylvia's who was screaming, 'M-Fer, I want more iced tea.' You know, I mean, everybody was -- it was like going into an Italian restaurant in an all-white suburb in the sense of people were sitting there, and they were ordering and having fun. And there wasn't any kind of craziness at all."

I won't say anything, so you won't say I'm spinning it. Just read it. Do you really think it's all right?

I don't like Bill O'Reilly. I think he's a pompous twit, an ass, and an all around bad person, who prays on the insecurities of a populace to line his coffers. He is a blustering fool and he is bad for America.

I don't think that his original comment was that bad. On reading it, I wasn't struck with a sense that Bill O' thinks that black people should be jumping around like crazy, screaming profanities and robbing poor old white people. I think the language that he used was probably borne out of some inborn racism that everyone in America has been exposed to growing up.

I myself, a left-leaning liberal, graduate of a liberal arts college, living in the whitest big city in the country occasionally find myself having a racist thought (ie walking down the street late at night, if I pass someone on the street I sometimes get more defensive if it's a minority). It's not intentional, it's not something I want to think, but the context of our culture, the images I have seen on TV, the stories I have read in the news, have subtly convinced me that minorities are perhaps more dangerous than whites. It's not true, and I find it simple to resist those racist urges, but the fact that they creep in at all shows that the culture of racism is by no means gone from America.

This culture of racism is a lot less overt than it has been in the past, so I think that people in Bill O'Reilly's generation or before have been exposed to a more extreme form of racism for a lot longer. Obviously, there's going to be some racist mentality there. Is this OK? Absolutely not, and I'm not trying to defend racist attitudes. But O'Reilly's audience is on the older side, and they probably have a view of blacks in America that has been formed from separate but equal and the civil rights movement through modern images of hip hop that largely show blacks being antagonistic towards whites. These images breed a subtle fear, which is largely what O'Reilly is discussing throughout his segment on racism. The line regarding his surprise is, in my opinion, meant to appeal to an audience that probably does foster a notion that blacks are fundamentally different from whites, and will behave in a more loud, abrasive manner when left to their own devices (a stereotype reinforced by media portrayals of blacks disproportionately as gangbangers and pimps).

So I don't think Bill O'Reilly meant anything by his first comment. He was appealing to his audience in terms they could understand, since they would be surprised themselves to find that blacks don't always act the way they are portrayed in the media. But Bill's next comments stray a bit too far and reveal his own inner prejudices. He does believe these media images that blacks must include the word "motherfucker" at least five times in every sentence, or that they are constantly whooping and hollering; he himself believes that blacks are fundamentally different from whites. And while he may not be directly saying that blacks are worse, he certainly makes it clear that because they are behaving as if they were in a white suburb, that this is better than how they would normally be acting. That's racist.


On a side note, the jokes about Bill O'Reilly assuming everyone in there was going to be eating fried chicken or the white guy throwing his wallet at the black women are hysterical. Damn near shot coffee out my nose. Classic.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: HomerJS
You see folks they don't all behave like rappers.

Racist!

Look at that. You made a racist comment. What a poopy-head.

 

[Stoneburner]

I suppose his remark about black kids stealing rims was also taken out of context. Let's put everything into context then. He's talking about racism being wrong so he says "look black people can be well behaved like white people!" He expresses amazement that nobody in a black run restaurant is misbehaving. Now you can say it was sarcasm, the problem being it shows his assumptions about the way black people behave. This is typical for Oreilly, he knows nothing, says anything, and in the process reveals his ignorance. Sure jokes about fried chicken and watermelon are all over the place, but this specific remark stemmed from from a stereotype HE HELD personally.

It's definitely the patronizing form of racism rather than the open hatred, but it's racism.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
I suppose his remark about black kids stealing rims was also taken out of context. Let's put everything into context then. He's talking about racism being wrong so he says "look black people can be well behaved like white people!" He expresses amazement that nobody in a black run restaurant is misbehaving. Now you can say it was sarcasm, the problem being it shows his assumptions about the way black people behave. This is typical for Oreilly, he knows nothing, says anything, and in the process reveals his ignorance. Sure jokes about fried chicken and watermelon are all over the place, but this specific remark stemmed from from a stereotype HE HELD personally.

It's definitely the patronizing form of racism rather than the open hatred, but it's racism.

It's been fully explained to you already and you still can't seem to comprehend it since you continue to overlook the obvious. The only thing you are proving with your statements is that you are oblivious to certain subtleties and nuances of speech, either out of pure ignorance or willing ignorance. I'm not sure which one but one of those two descriptions fits you.

 

[Stoneburner]

Wrong, you're either showing a willful blindness or you just don't understand the "out of context" defense does not work here. This is a very simple situation and people like you are overcomplicating everything, in a rather hypocritical manner considering how people reacted to the Kerry Botched Joke thing. You also haven't said a damn thing about the rim jacking comment, which isn't surprising since you really don't have much of an argument here. Let me lay out out simply.

1. Taken alone the words are patronizingly racist.
2. Taken in context of the speech they are patronizingly racist.
3. Taken in the context of other such remarks, they are stupid and patronizingly racist.

Exactly which of those 3 do you disagree with?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

The taken out of context argument works perfectly here. Is English not your first language? If it is your first language you have no excuse for being so willfully ignorant over an issue that so many others can plainly see is bogus, except for you and Homer.

Even most of the lefties and people who can't stand O'Reilly (like me) won't back you up on this argument. Do you even begin to wonder why you're in such a tiny, tiny minority of opinion?

Edit: btw, let me remind you of this:

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Sure he was trying to make a point against BIGOTRY.

Glad you agree with me.

And I hope you get the glaringly clear point of me selectively quoting your post too.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Wrong, you're either showing a willful blindness or you just don't understand the "out of context" defense does not work here. This is a very simple situation and people like you are overcomplicating everything, in a rather hypocritical manner considering how people reacted to the Kerry Botched Joke thing. You also haven't said a damn thing about the rim jacking comment, which isn't surprising since you really don't have much of an argument here. Let me lay out out simply.

1. Taken alone the words are patronizingly racist.
2. Taken in context of the speech they are patronizingly racist.
3. Taken in the context of other such remarks, they are stupid and patronizingly racist.

Exactly which of those 3 do you disagree with?

Wow, you're getting desperate. Pretty sad.

 

[Stoneburner]

So, I'm in a minority so that makes my opinion less valid? You're just full of irony aren't you. I wonder what your view of the Iraq War is. Don't question my English after you try to make a selective quote and failed miserably by including a hedge phrase. I laid out my position in 3 lines, you can address them individually or you can continue being evasive. Since my point is that even in context the remarks are inherently racist, I must conclude you lack the intelligence to understand and will continue falling back on a non-issue. Great Job, you're a tribute to whatever race you belong to

Bill Oreilly - "Hey look! The negroes can act like white people and behave! We're not different... I'm threatened by mean looking rappers and people wearing timberlands, I'm glad I can meet negroes that dress 'normally' and don't try to kill me and steal my rims"


I'm guessing you people ascribe to the "I have a black friend I can't be racist!" school of thought

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
So, I'm in a minority so that makes my opinion less valid? You're just full of irony aren't you. I wonder what your view of the Iraq War is. Don't question my English after you try to make a selective quote and failed miserably by including a hedge phrase. I laid out my position in 3 lines, you can address them individually or you can continue being evasive. Since my point is that even in context the remarks are inherently racist, I must conclude you lack the intelligence to understand and will continue falling back on a non-issue. Great Job, you're a tribute to whatever race you belong to

Bill Oreilly - "Hey look! The negroes can act like white people and behave! We're not different... I'm threatened by mean looking rappers and people wearing timberlands, I'm glad I can meet negroes that dress 'normally' and don't try to kill me and steal my rims"


I'm guessing you people ascribe to the "I have a black friend I can't be racist!" school of thought

You already agreed with me that he was making a point about bigotry. Since using selective quoting seems to be agreeable to you then obviously you've already conceded the point.

Nothing more to see here.

 

[Stoneburner]

Let's see how you handle even simple nuance. I conceded he was making a point against bigotry? Correct. There is no misquoting there. Now, does anything within that selective quote completely happen to undermine the point of the quote? None whatsoever. That's where your brain seems to crap out. The quote from Oreilly contains assumptions about black people and general ignorance from Bill. You won't address this point because you believe all knowledge is democratic apparently.

 

[imported_Tango]

As I said English is not my first language, so I probably just don't get the tone.

What I hear is somebody addressing points that should not even be discussed. He says "it was like an Italian restaurant in the suburbs." Of course it is, why should you expect anything different? Granted, he went to the most touristic restaurant in Harlem. To me it sounded a goofy way to make a anti-racist argument revealing at least a healthy dose of racist assumptions. "Hey I was positively impressed because I assumed everything was going to be a mess" kind of discourse.

Now, if you tell me in fact he is saying these things to mock those who make these kind of comments for real, then as I said I have no doubt you are right. I probably have not a knowledge of the language refined enough to get these shades in the tones.

 

[Stoneburner]

Originally posted by: Tango

Now, if you tell me in fact he is saying these things to mock those who make these kind of comments for real, then as I said I have no doubt you are right. I

This is what's so funny. Who makes these comments? Maybe a voice in Oreilly's head. Was he saying "I thought because of watching rap videos all negroes misbehave?" He tried to be clever but he's a buffoon.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Let's see how you handle even simple nuance. I conceded he was making a point against bigotry? Correct. There is no misquoting there. Now, does anything within that selective quote completely happen to undermine the point of the quote? None whatsoever. That's where your brain seems to crap out. The quote from Oreilly contains assumptions about black people and general ignorance from Bill. You won't address this point because you believe all knowledge is democratic apparently.

Yep. And that was your entire conclusion too, wasn't it, and the only thing you actually stated in the post I selectively quoted you from?

You know damn well it wasn't.

I'm not the one with the brain malfunction here. You keep ignoring the context and sarcasm of O'Reilly's remarks simply to whip out your pud and piss on him. That's purely pathetic and foolish behaviour. But if you want to continue playing the part of the fool in this thread, help yourself. I'll be more than happy to play ringmaster and shine the spotlight on your foolishness. It's been quite entertaining and pleasureable thus far, Chuckles.

 

[Stoneburner]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Wrong, you're either showing a willful blindness or you just don't understand the "out of context" defense does not work here. This is a very simple situation and people like you are overcomplicating everything, in a rather hypocritical manner considering how people reacted to the Kerry Botched Joke thing. You also haven't said a damn thing about the rim jacking comment, which isn't surprising since you really don't have much of an argument here. Let me lay out out simply.

1. Taken alone the words are patronizingly racist.
2. Taken in context of the speech they are patronizingly racist.
3. Taken in the context of other such remarks, they are stupid and patronizingly racist.

Exactly which of those 3 do you disagree with?

You addressed nothing here. Feel free to do so. Actually, I'm waiting for you to just admit you don't know what you're talking about, you don't know what "context" means, you don't evenly apply any principles you've stated in this thread, and you are just going to stubbornly keep responding nonsensically because you can't respond on substance.


If nothing else, answer this question: Whose stereotypes was Oreilly's making a strawman out of?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Wrong, you're either showing a willful blindness or you just don't understand the "out of context" defense does not work here. This is a very simple situation and people like you are overcomplicating everything, in a rather hypocritical manner considering how people reacted to the Kerry Botched Joke thing. You also haven't said a damn thing about the rim jacking comment, which isn't surprising since you really don't have much of an argument here. Let me lay out out simply.

1. Taken alone the words are patronizingly racist.
2. Taken in context of the speech they are patronizingly racist.
3. Taken in the context of other such remarks, they are stupid and patronizingly racist.

Exactly which of those 3 do you disagree with?

You addressed nothing here. Feel free to do so. Actually, I'm waiting for you to just admit you don't know what you're talking about, you don't know what "context" means, you don't evenly apply any principles you've stated in this thread, and you are just going to stubbornly keep responding nonsensically because you can't respond on substance.


If nothing else, answer this question: Whose stereotypes was Oreilly's making a strawman out of?

It's easy to address, too easy, and I hate addressing the obvious. But since you claim to be oblivious about it I will address it:

Statemnt 1: Yes. Taken ALONE they are racist, not to mention taken out of context which is what happens when statements are taken alone.

Statement #2 is wrong. The proper statement should be "Taken in context of the speech they are NOT patronizingly racist." What his comments are is patronizingly pointed. The problem is that you either don't know or refuse to recognize who those comments are POINTED AT.

Statement #3 is wrong because O'Reilly is against racism and bigotry and when he makes the remarks you've quoted from him he does it in a sarcastic manner and for a specific reason. You keep dancing around the fact that they are sarcasm though so you can continue to drone on with your cheap shops and flimsy rationales about him.

Now I've answered your query, you answer me. Do you recognize who/what O'Reilly's comments were directed at? Yes or no? And don't give me some crappy song and dance of an answer. It's a yes or no question.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

I'm a little late to this party but after listening to the O'R clip I have no idea how you can come away thinking his comments were racist in any way.

But I guess some people aren't happy if they don't have something to complain or feel offended about.

 

[laketrout]

I also don't think he was being racist either after actually listening to it. I can see how its confusing just reading the transcript - but I'm convinced that this is all being fueled by Media Matters and others like them. They've completely blow this issue up and out of proportion looking to make a media event out of it, when there's really nothing here.

 

[Stoneburner]

Tastes:

I'm going to have to stretch your metaphors but you seem to like analogies. While his comments were "directed" through his intent, and his intent being to show everybody is the same, either his aim was off or something backfired.

He can claim his comments were directed against racism, but he inadvertently forwarded it. You like analogies, so here's one. A doctor is trying to save a man from a heart attack and accidently removes his legs.

Now answer your own question/ What stereotype were his comments directed at? Whose stereotypes? His own maybe?

 

[yowolabi]

O'Reilly intended to do a good thing, and in the process revealed some unsavory things about his thought process. I'm not going to crucify him for it, the intentions weigh far heavier. In the end it doesn't really matter how one person thinks, even a personality like him.

The person who posted that viewpoints like what O'Reilly expressed is more bothersome to blacks, is dead on. The overt racists are usually idiots and uneducated, and are almost never in a position to cause real harm. The exception being the rare cases where they're armed and willing to hurt someone.

The other kind, where someone expects less of you simply because of skin color is far more damaging and far more prevalent. It's the type that causes people to fear you on sight, to assign the worst case scenario to your actions, to assume you're less able to do a job, and to exclude you from circles of power.

I've had people think they were paying me a compliment by saying they're suprised by how well-spoken or intelligent I am. I always cringe when I hear that, because it just lets me know the assumptions that were made about me on sight.

 

[Jadow]

did anyone watch that town hall meeting ESPN had about Michael Vick.

WOW JUST WOW

 

[Corporate Thug]

I don't understand how anyone could listen to the clip and come to the conclusion that Bill is a racist or he made a racist comment. MediaMatter spun this story like no other. I'm beginning to wonder if their outright liberal bias had anything to do with this...

 

[NFS4]

I didn't think that the comment was THAT bad at first. But on the other hand, I don't really think that what Don Imus said was bad either (in other words, when I first heard the comment last night on Countdown with Keith Olberman, it didn't really even phase me that much. I just kinda went "meh" and went about my business).

However, why isn't O'Reilly coming under more scrutiny? Imus offended a few chicks, O'Reilly is potentially offending a much larger audience.

Now, I've had some time to think about it a little more. This is the year 2007. I find it VERY hard to believe that someone in this day in age cannot grasp the idea (other than blatant racists) that a sizeable portion of black Americans know how to act like... well, normal Americans.

The fact that he is somehow surprised ("I couldn't get over the fact that there was no difference" -- WTF) leads me to think that he has some deep-down inner issues that Imus could only dream of.

 

[Stoneburner]

Originally posted by: yowolabi
O'Reilly intended to do a good thing, and in the process revealed some unsavory things about his thought process. I'm not going to crucify him for it, the intentions weigh far heavier. In the end it doesn't really matter how one person thinks, even a personality like him.

The person who posted that viewpoints like what O'Reilly expressed is more bothersome to blacks, is dead on. The overt racists are usually idiots and uneducated, and are almost never in a position to cause real harm. The exception being the rare cases where they're armed and willing to hurt someone.

The other kind, where someone expects less of you simply because of skin color is far more damaging and far more prevalent. It's the type that causes people to fear you on sight, to assign the worst case scenario to your actions, to assume you're less able to do a job, and to exclude you from circles of power.

I've had people think they were paying me a compliment by saying they're suprised by how well-spoken or intelligent I am. I always cringe when I hear that, because it just lets me know the assumptions that were made about me on sight.

Exactly. This is alot like the Biden incident where he called Obama clean and articulate. Sure you know what he meant, but .... where did that come from? It's no coincidence they come from a certain generation either.

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner

Originally posted by: yowolabi
O'Reilly intended to do a good thing, and in the process revealed some unsavory things about his thought process. I'm not going to crucify him for it, the intentions weigh far heavier. In the end it doesn't really matter how one person thinks, even a personality like him.

The person who posted that viewpoints like what O'Reilly expressed is more bothersome to blacks, is dead on. The overt racists are usually idiots and uneducated, and are almost never in a position to cause real harm. The exception being the rare cases where they're armed and willing to hurt someone.

The other kind, where someone expects less of you simply because of skin color is far more damaging and far more prevalent. It's the type that causes people to fear you on sight, to assign the worst case scenario to your actions, to assume you're less able to do a job, and to exclude you from circles of power.

I've had people think they were paying me a compliment by saying they're suprised by how well-spoken or intelligent I am. I always cringe when I hear that, because it just lets me know the assumptions that were made about me on sight.

Exactly. This is alot like the Biden incident where he called Obama clean and articulate. Sure you know what he meant, but .... where did that come from? It's no coincidence they come from a certain generation either.

Or maybe its sarcasm...........

You do know what sarcasm is right.........

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Tastes:

I'm going to have to stretch your metaphors but you seem to like analogies. While his comments were "directed" through his intent, and his intent being to show everybody is the same, either his aim was off or something backfired.

He can claim his comments were directed against racism, but he inadvertently forwarded it. You like analogies, so here's one. A doctor is trying to save a man from a heart attack and accidently removes his legs.

Now answer your own question/ What stereotype were his comments directed at? Whose stereotypes? His own maybe?

What? I made my question clear.

Stop trolling.