Bill O'Reilly bludgeons Joan Walsh over abortion

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Patranus
You fail to see the flaw in your logic. First off, many diagnosis are made by doctors via medical records without ever meeting the patient. The fact that he never met the patients is irrelevant.

No, I'm afraid it's you who fail to see the flaws in yours.

1) A medical doctor might look at bloodwork and charts and make an accurate diagnosis based on scientific data on a chart. Meeting the patient might be relevant if an in-person examination is required, like physically examining a body area with his hands. But I'd like to meet the psychiatrist who accurately diagnoses fine distinctions of human behavior and psychosis based on a Q&A on a medical chart.

2) His opinion is not irrelevent, it merely must be weighed in contrast to other evidence provided, namely that a medical doctor did in fact meet the patients face to face and felt they sufficiently met the criteria for the procedure.

Recall Bill Frist's "diagnosis" of Terry Schiavo which contradicted her own doctors even though he had never met her. His opinion was not irrelevant, but compared to the opinion of doctors who had been caring for this woman for years, it's a bit presumptuous to say the least that he thinks he knew better than they.

Secondly, how would he had been able to come to the conclusions he did if the medical records did not include the necessary facts? The medical records must contain detailed records of why some of these woman received abortions and those must have included some who had "bad" excuses.

I don't know how he came to his conclusions, I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on the internets. I don't know what records he looked at. I do know another doctor (or 2 as required by law) looked at them and made an alternative determination. I know that Tiller was acquitted by a jury of charges brought against him that he violated the laws of Kansas.

I don't dismiss the St. John's docs opinion. I listened to it, and gave it its proper due. For someone who regularly and reflexively concludes the president is wrong about everything, you sure seem to bow quite readily to a title of authority when it suits you.

 

[Phokus]

Ahahahahaha, that last 60 seconds of the clip is marvelous. Bravo for Ms. Walsh for pointing out how O'Reilly was complicit in the Unitarian church murders last year by that psycho who happened to be a fan of O'Reilly/Hannity and stated that he wanted to kill liberals.

O'Reilly couldn't respond to that, gg.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Patranus
You fail to see the flaw in your logic. First off, many diagnosis are made by doctors via medical records without ever meeting the patient. The fact that he never met the patients is irrelevant.

No, I'm afraid it's you who fail to see the flaws in yours.

1) A medical doctor might look at bloodwork and charts and make an accurate diagnosis based on scientific data on a chart. Meeting the patient might be relevant if an in-person examination is required, like physically examining a body area with his hands. But I'd like to meet the psychiatrist who accurately diagnoses fine distinctions of human behavior and psychosis based on a Q&A on a medical chart.

2) His opinion is not irrelevent, it merely must be weighed in contrast to other evidence provided, namely that a medical doctor did in fact meet the patients face to face and felt they sufficiently met the criteria for the procedure.

Recall Bill Frist's "diagnosis" of Terry Schiavo which contradicted her own doctors even though he had never met her. His opinion was not irrelevant, but compared to the opinion of doctors who had been caring for this woman for years, it's a bit presumptuous to say the least that he thinks he knew better than they.

Secondly, how would he had been able to come to the conclusions he did if the medical records did not include the necessary facts? The medical records must contain detailed records of why some of these woman received abortions and those must have included some who had "bad" excuses.

I don't know how he came to his conclusions, I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on the internets. I don't know what records he looked at. I do know another doctor (or 2 as required by law) looked at them and made an alternative determination. I know that Tiller was acquitted by a jury of charges brought against him that he violated the laws of Kansas.

I don't dismiss the St. John's docs opinion. I listened to it, and gave it its proper due. For someone who regularly and reflexively concludes the president is wrong about everything, you sure seem to bow quite readily to a title of authority when it suits you.

Your argument supports the fact that what Dr. Tillar did was LEGAL and you are in fact correct when you state that what he did was legal. No one is debating weather or not what he did was legal. In Kansas you can get an abortion for ANY reason and it would still be legal.

What the Dr. from Johns Hopkins University was saying was NOT that what he did was illegal but was simply pointing out that some of the LEGAL late term abortions were in fact done with "bad" excuses. It in no way claims what he did was illegal in the state of Kansas.

 

[Tab3076]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Late term abortions , to me , are evil. If the mother could die then I understand doing it, but not because you decided you didn't want the baby.[/L]

Those on the "anti-abortion" side say that abortion is wrong because it takes the life of another person. Makes sense, we just disagree on what makes a "person". My secondary issue with the anti-abort crowd is they make concessions for mothers who life could be at risk. Why? Who's to say this person is more or less important than it's mother? They should be given a fair chance.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Ichigo
Too bad it's from HP.

Text

I'm not sure what Joan was trying to prove, O' Reilly clearly got the best of her.

Ranting and raving equals getting the best of someone? Right wing extremists go around killing because of o'reilly's insanity and riling up of his base. The left doesn't. He lost bigtime on facts.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Ichigo

Topic Title: Joan Walsh bests Bill O'Reilly over abortion

Fixed it for ya... although busting the reality behind O'Reilly's continuous, blustering, bullyiing bullshit is never difficult. :roll:

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Late term abortions , to me , are evil. If the mother could die then I understand doing it, but not because you decided you didn't want the baby. I think anyone who gets a abortion at this late stage illegally should be sterilized. You are killing a life that has a heart beat, has even been shown to be able to dream and has some senses such as touch and the ability to discern if it is upright or upside down.

I did not understand at what weeks a baby develops what features and what was considered late term. Seems most states say anywhere from 24-27 weeks is considered late term.

Read for yourself and decide if it is wrong to kill at that stage.
http://kidshealth.org/parent/p...y_calendar/week22.html

What if the infant will be born without a functioning brain? Or has an incurable disease which means their "life" will be filled with unmentionable agony? Do you believe they should suffer simply to make you feel better?

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: Zstream
Anyways, Dr. Tiller performed late term abortions for marginal reasons.

Can you substantiate your claim?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mviFMpy_sBU

:roll:

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Late term abortions , to me , are evil. If the mother could die then I understand doing it, but not because you decided you didn't want the baby. I think anyone who gets a abortion at this late stage illegally should be sterilized. You are killing a life that has a heart beat, has even been shown to be able to dream and has some senses such as touch and the ability to discern if it is upright or upside down.

I did not understand at what weeks a baby develops what features and what was considered late term. Seems most states say anywhere from 24-27 weeks is considered late term.

Read for yourself and decide if it is wrong to kill at that stage.
http://kidshealth.org/parent/p...y_calendar/week22.html

dogs can dream and has a heart beat as well, shit, so do cows. being able to tell whether you are upside down or not is clearly a sign of higher mental function btw, limited only to the most advanced of animals.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Ahahahahaha, that last 60 seconds of the clip is marvelous. Bravo for Ms. Walsh for pointing out how O'Reilly was complicit in the Unitarian church murders last year by that psycho who happened to be a fan of O'Reilly/Hannity and stated that he wanted to kill liberals.

O'Reilly couldn't respond to that, gg.

Yeah she hit him right in the balls on that one. The little snake ended the show as fast as he could.

I think everyone (especially the right) needs to get over this whole abortion issue. People need to realize that they can't control the lives of others.

 

[teclis1023]

Ah yes, I saw that. I didn't really think either of them particularly 'won,' though Bill came off the same as he always does...a blow hard.

 

[Bird222]

Originally posted by: Patranus

You fail to see the flaw in your logic. First off, many diagnosis are made by doctors via medical records without ever meeting the patient. The fact that he never met the patients is irrelevant.

Secondly, how would he had been able to come to the conclusions he did if the medical records did not include the necessary facts? The medical records must contain detailed records of why some of these woman received abortions and those must have included some who had "bad" excuses.

I really do not understand why you dismiss a department head at Johns Hopkins University so quickly. It is not as if Bill O'Reily did the investigation himself.

Did I missed something in the doctor's video? He seemed to be commenting on the psychological damage the women may suffer. I don't remember hearing him comment on their physical medical condition.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Your argument supports the fact that what Dr. Tillar did was LEGAL and you are in fact correct when you state that what he did was legal. No one is debating weather or not what he did was legal. In Kansas you can get an abortion for ANY reason and it would still be legal.

What the Dr. from Johns Hopkins University was saying was NOT that what he did was illegal but was simply pointing out that some of the LEGAL late term abortions were in fact done with "bad" excuses. It in no way claims what he did was illegal in the state of Kansas.

I also notice that your username has the word "anus" contained within it. 'Nuff said.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Late term abortions , to me , are evil. If the mother could die then I understand doing it, but not because you decided you didn't want the baby. I think anyone who gets a abortion at this late stage illegally should be sterilized. You are killing a life that has a heart beat, has even been shown to be able to dream and has some senses such as touch and the ability to discern if it is upright or upside down.

I did not understand at what weeks a baby develops what features and what was considered late term. Seems most states say anywhere from 24-27 weeks is considered late term.

Read for yourself and decide if it is wrong to kill at that stage.
http://kidshealth.org/parent/p...y_calendar/week22.html

dogs can dream and has a heart beat as well, shit, so do cows. being able to tell whether you are upside down or not is clearly a sign of higher mental function btw, limited only to the most advanced of animals.

So you compare humans with dogs and cows ? The point you can't seem to grasp, is at the age they are performing these kind of abortions it is no longer a collection of cells that will become a life, it is a life made up from a collection of cells.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Bird222

Originally posted by: Patranus

You fail to see the flaw in your logic. First off, many diagnosis are made by doctors via medical records without ever meeting the patient. The fact that he never met the patients is irrelevant.

Secondly, how would he had been able to come to the conclusions he did if the medical records did not include the necessary facts? The medical records must contain detailed records of why some of these woman received abortions and those must have included some who had "bad" excuses.

I really do not understand why you dismiss a department head at Johns Hopkins University so quickly. It is not as if Bill O'Reily did the investigation himself.

Did I missed something in the doctor's video? He seemed to be commenting on the psychological damage the women may suffer. I don't remember hearing him comment on their physical medical condition.

The point he was making is that Dr. Tillar stretched medical conditions to the point that they would make the abortions legal. Things like a woman who does not want the baby anymore because her husband left her, becomes woman is mentally unbalanced and incapable of caring for herself and her needs to bring the baby to term, when there was nothing that would have prevented her from carrying to term except she viewed the baby as a thing and didn't want it anymore out of spite for the husband.

If those kind of people want an abortion at these late stages, they should never be allowed to have a child. The kid would grow up to be a monster with a person with those values as a parent.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Patranus
Your argument supports the fact that what Dr. Tillar did was LEGAL and you are in fact correct when you state that what he did was legal. No one is debating weather or not what he did was legal. In Kansas you can get an abortion for ANY reason and it would still be legal.

What the Dr. from Johns Hopkins University was saying was NOT that what he did was illegal but was simply pointing out that some of the LEGAL late term abortions were in fact done with "bad" excuses. It in no way claims what he did was illegal in the state of Kansas.

I also notice that your username has the word "anus" contained within it. 'Nuff said.

Wow...just how old are you dude?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Patranus
Your argument supports the fact that what Dr. Tillar did was LEGAL and you are in fact correct when you state that what he did was legal. No one is debating weather or not what he did was legal. In Kansas you can get an abortion for ANY reason and it would still be legal.

What the Dr. from Johns Hopkins University was saying was NOT that what he did was illegal but was simply pointing out that some of the LEGAL late term abortions were in fact done with "bad" excuses. It in no way claims what he did was illegal in the state of Kansas.

I also notice that your username has the word "anus" contained within it. 'Nuff said.

great response. that just nailed that argument!



i am against abortion when used as a form of bith control. to many young women do that today.

BUT i am for it in uses of child molestation, rape, if the baby has very small chance of survivel, and health of the mother.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: Phokus
Ahahahahaha, that last 60 seconds of the clip is marvelous. Bravo for Ms. Walsh for pointing out how O'Reilly was complicit in the Unitarian church murders last year by that psycho who happened to be a fan of O'Reilly/Hannity and stated that he wanted to kill liberals.

O'Reilly couldn't respond to that, gg.

Yeah she hit him right in the balls on that one. The little snake ended the show as fast as he could.

I think everyone (especially the right) needs to get over this whole abortion issue. People need to realize that they can't control the lives of others.

Unless they commit murder.

 

[Bird222]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: Bird222

Did I missed something in the doctor's video? He seemed to be commenting on the psychological damage the women may suffer. I don't remember hearing him comment on their physical medical condition.

The point he was making is that Dr. Tillar stretched medical conditions to the point that they would make the abortions legal. Things like a woman who does not want the baby anymore because her husband left her, becomes woman is mentally unbalanced and incapable of caring for herself and her needs to bring the baby to term, when there was nothing that would have prevented her from carrying to term except she viewed the baby as a thing and didn't want it anymore out of spite for the husband.

If those kind of people want an abortion at these late stages, they should never be allowed to have a child. The kid would grow up to be a monster with a person with those values as a parent.

So is he saying that these people had absolutely no physical reasons for having the abortion? Does the Kansas law allow for late-term abortions for mental reasons? In all the time I have heard the abortion debate going on, I don't think I have ever heard anyone use mental reasons for supporting late-term abortions.

 

[evident]

Walsh: And you routinely attack, you routinely attack, people on the left, Janeane Garofalo, Michael Moore, who you think their rhetoric leads potentially to acts of violence. It never has led to one act of violence. But you've already driven that crazy guy in Knoxville last year who read your writings and then went and shot up a church and shot liberals, that's already happened once, and you don't feel any responsibility at all, now that it's happened a second time, Bill? Talk about blood on your hands.

oreilly and his ilk are nothing but dirtbags.

 

[Painman]

Bill O Reilly bludgeons *, film at...

F**CK IT, WE'LL DO IT LIVE!!

 

[JKing106]

This kid would've probably been a doctor. Doesn't matter that he didn't have a brain, and would've have died naturally as soon as the umbilical cord was cut:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anencephaly

Maybe one of you guys could adopt the corpse.

What's funny is some of you are screaming about "they killin' baybees!" but you don't want "the gubment stealin' mah money!" to support them. You also don't want condoms or sex ed. in schools to teach young girls how to not get pregnant, to help combat the number of abortions in the first place. Fucking morons.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: JKing106
This kid would've probably been a doctor. Doesn't matter that he didn't have a brain, and would've have died naturally as soon as the umbilical cord was cut:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anencephaly

Maybe one of you guys could adopt the corpse.

What's funny is some of you are screaming about "they killin' baybees!" but you don't want "the gubment stealin' mah money!" to support them. You also don't want condoms or sex ed. in schools to teach young girls how to not get pregnant, to help combat the number of abortions in the first place. Fucking morons.

You're sick...suggest that you seek treatment immediately.

 

[wheels]

What it comes down to, if you are not getting an abortion you shouldnt have anything to say, if you are a man you never will have one so you should drop your views on abortion.

So much for individual liberty..

 

[Ichigo]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: JKing106
This kid would've probably been a doctor. Doesn't matter that he didn't have a brain, and would've have died naturally as soon as the umbilical cord was cut:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anencephaly

Maybe one of you guys could adopt the corpse.

What's funny is some of you are screaming about "they killin' baybees!" but you don't want "the gubment stealin' mah money!" to support them. You also don't want condoms or sex ed. in schools to teach young girls how to not get pregnant, to help combat the number of abortions in the first place. Fucking morons.

You're sick...suggest that you seek treatment immediately.

How terrible it must be for you to have to see such ugly things.