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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
21,219
13,428
136
Aren't you just a wee bit concerned that Biden is just sitting back and watching what could be the creation of the next ISIS? You would think that we would have learned from our past mistakes here.
Point out where the Taliban have an ideology to take over the world for Muslims.
 
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ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
24,241
1,866
126
Who negotiated and signed the deal for us to leave?

what alternative course of action do you propose?
Instead of finger pointing, I'm hoping that Joe Biden has a plan to rescue those thousands of young women in Afghanistan who are now getting an education and are now under threat of losing that right when the Taliban takes over.

This is Biden's mess to clean up now.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
12,101
8,758
136
Instead of finger pointing, I'm hoping that Joe Biden has a plan to rescue those thousands of young women in Afghanistan who are now getting an education and are now under threat of losing that right when the Taliban takes over.

This is Biden's mess to clean up now.
We could just make them our allies like Saudi Arabia and then would you stop pretending to care
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
8,264
3,752
136
Instead of finger pointing, I'm hoping that Joe Biden has a plan to rescue those thousands of young women in Afghanistan who are now getting an education and are now under threat of losing that right when the Taliban takes over.

This is Biden's mess to clean up now.
What are you proposing?
To invade the country, gather up their women and bring them here?
Where should "Joe Biden" send the the thousands of young women that we take from Afghanistan? What state will be taking in these refugees?
What sort of programs should be extended to these women?
Who pays for their health care? Who pays for their education? How much education should we pay for?
What happens with the not so young women in Afghanistan?
What's the age cut off for the young women you want to rescue?

What about the families of these women?
Who is allowed to come?
Do you just rescue the women are are you also rescuing their parents and siblings?

What is the plan that will make you happy?
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
21,219
13,428
136
Instead of finger pointing, I'm hoping that Joe Biden has a plan to rescue those thousands of young women in Afghanistan who are now getting an education and are now under threat of losing that right when the Taliban takes over.

This is Biden's mess to clean up now.
How many American lives are you willing to spend to make that happen? Serious question.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
18,247
5,444
136
How many American lives are you willing to spend to make that happen? Serious question.
These non-Tabliban idiots can't even speak about what these F's are going to do to their daughters. How about fighting for you and your children's lives to YOUR death for a change!
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
24,241
1,866
126
How many American lives are you willing to spend to make that happen? Serious question.
At a bare freaking minimum, we should be offering air support to the ground forces defending Kabul.

After spending 20 years and billions of dollars modernizing that city, we should at least give them a fighting chance.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,399
25,187
136
At a bare freaking minimum, we should be offering air support to the ground forces defending Kabul.

After spending 20 years and billions of dollars modernizing that city, we should at least give them a fighting chance.
A fighting chance to do what? What is your end goal here?

Do you think America should have stuck around in Vietnam longer?
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
21,219
13,428
136
At a bare freaking minimum, we should be offering air support to the ground forces defending Kabul.

After spending 20 years and billions of dollars modernizing that city, we should at least give them a fighting chance.
Have you read up on Afghan history for the last 300 years at all? BTW the Afghan security forces already has air superiority and other advantages over the Taliban I believe they even substantially outnumber the Taliban. Air support is not going to make up for a lack of local leadership and commitment to the fight.

TLDR, some planes are not going to swing this one the way want it.

So how many American lives are you willing to spend?
 
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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
8,472
5,651
136
It's a horrible situation all around. If the US stayed... well, that'd fulfill neocon dreams of a "forever war" where the US spends trillions trying to conquer enemies instead of improving defenses. And as we've seen, the Taliban is going to revert Afghanistan to a theocracy as soon as it can.

My guess is that Biden and his advisors decided that withdrawal was the best solution out of a bad bunch. Afghanis are going to lose a lot of freedom, and that sucks... but I can also imagine that Biden didn't want the US paying for Bush Jr.'s bad policy in blood and money for decades to come.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
29,164
13,285
136
At a bare freaking minimum, we should be offering air support to the ground forces defending Kabul.

After spending 20 years and billions of dollars modernizing that city, we should at least give them a fighting chance.
No. Their problem. Not ours. Send all the thoughts and prayers you want.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
8,264
3,752
136
At a bare freaking minimum, we should be offering air support to the ground forces defending Kabul.

After spending 20 years and billions of dollars modernizing that city, we should at least give them a fighting chance.
I'm not sure how to break it to you, but under no circumstance is what you are proposing a reasonable or effective path to take under any circumstance given the situation.

What do you think we were trying to do for the past 20 years?
Do you not understand?



 
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ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
24,241
1,866
126
I'm not sure how to break it to you, but under no circumstance is what you are proposing a reasonable or effective path to take under any circumstance given the situation.

What do you think we were trying to do for the past 20 years?
Do you not understand?



I didn't say that was a winning strategy, but it is the bare minimum that we should be doing. We left behind a lot of allies in Kabul that should be evacuated before the Taliban massacres them. Can't we at least buy them some time to get out of there?
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
16,433
4,100
136
Aren't you just a wee bit concerned that Biden is just sitting back and watching what could be the creation of the next ISIS? You would think that we would have learned from our past mistakes here.
ISIS was never gone, you actually believe that? They moved to a small part of Iraq.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
21,219
13,428
136
I didn't say that was a winning strategy, but it is the bare minimum that we should be doing. We left behind a lot of allies in Kabul that should be evacuated before the Taliban massacres them. Can't we at least buy them some time to get out of there?
You understand they have an airforce already right? At the start of this the ANA had 4x the troops of the Taliban in the field. Normally the defender enjoys a 3:1 advantage over the attacker yet in this case the Taliban is rolling up the ANA left and right. The brutal truth is the Afghans don't have the will to resist the Taliban.

So far your option is to abrogate the agreement we made and start bombing something for some nebulous goal of "buying time" to some undetermined end. WE FUCKING LOST AFGHANISTAN THE DAY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION SHIFTED FOCUS TO IRAQ. The only question since then is how much are we going to spend and how many people will die. Honestly even without that we would probably still be in this situation. Afghanistan has effectively resisted foreign empires for centuries, its long past time we move on.
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
62,644
15,988
136
What are you proposing?
To invade the country, gather up their women and bring them here?
Where should "Joe Biden" send the the thousands of young women that we take from Afghanistan? What state will be taking in these refugees?
What sort of programs should be extended to these women?
Who pays for their health care? Who pays for their education? How much education should we pay for?
What happens with the not so young women in Afghanistan?
What's the age cut off for the young women you want to rescue?

What about the families of these women?
Who is allowed to come?
Do you just rescue the women are are you also rescuing their parents and siblings?

What is the plan that will make you happy?
This actually works for me.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
8,264
3,752
136
You understand they have an airforce already right? At the start of this the ANA had 4x the troops of the Taliban in the field. Normally the defender enjoys a 3:1 advantage over the attacker yet in this case the Taliban is rolling up the ANA left and right. The brutal truth is the Afghans don't have the will to resist the Taliban.

So far your option is to abrogate the agreement we made and start bombing something for some nebulous goal of "buying time" to some undetermined end. WE FUCKING LOST AFGHANISTAN THE DAY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION SHIFTED FOCUS TO IRAQ. The only question since then is how much are we going to spend and how many people will die. Honestly even without that we would probably still be in this situation. Afghanistan has effectively resisted foreign empires for centuries, its long past time we move on.
"Technically" they have an airforce.
We gave them equipment and then instead of empowering Afghans to maintain the equipment, we bankrolled contractors to keep all that stuff in the air.
Guess what happens when you have a private industry under the protection of the US government maintaining key assets and the US decides to leave.
They go bye-bye
No one to keep stuff in the air.

Also doesn't help that pilots have been getting assassinated left and right for awhile now.
 
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pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
8,264
3,752
136
WE FUCKING LOST AFGHANISTAN THE DAY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION SHIFTED FOCUS TO IRAQ. The only question since then is how much are we going to spend and how many people will die. Honestly even without that we would probably still be in this situation. Afghanistan has effectively resisted foreign empires for centuries, its long past time we move on.
Even if we never shifted focus to Iraq, we would have eventually lost Afghanistan given the players in power during the Bush years.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
8,264
3,752
136
This actually works for me.
Seems a little pervy that everyone just focus on the young girls.

When Saigon fell, we took in over 125,000 Vietnamese refugees with many more arriving afterwards through all sorts of ways as the years went by.
My personal anecdote of the time was being surrounded by a bunch of white kids in a park and being threatened and teased because dumbasses thought I was Vietnamese and watched my father assaulted on the street because he dared walk with a 4 year old and a 6 year old (who the dumbass thought to be "gooks") on a sidewalk.

If we could take in 125,000 Vietnamese on our exit from Vietnam, perhaps we should take 300,000+ Afghans for the initial wave.
I prefer to settle them all around Trump properties so Trump can watch all the Mosques pop up outside his golf courses to remind him of his "Muslim ban"


(sits back and waits for certain people to insist we should just do airstrikes and stay the course and complete the mission and we have no room for refugees cause "Islam" is going to hurt the freedom eagles)
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
29,680
10,051
136
You gotta love idiots who want to double down on twenty years of a failed policy.

I thought trump was crazy enough to get us out and keep the deplorables at bay while getting minimal flack from the left. Yet here we are and the righties are back trying continue the failed policy.
 
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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,109
12,928
126
You gotta love idiots who want to double down on twenty years of a failed policy.

I thought trump was crazy enough to get us out and keep the deplorables at bay while getting minimal flack from the left. Yet here we are and the righties are back trying continue the failed policy.
If Donald had pulled out if Iraq the conservative propaganda machine would have been sucking his dick 24/7 for about a year.
 
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sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
9,903
1,750
126
Lot of you were not around during Vietnam yet the same questions were asked then as many are asking now….
WAS IT WORTH IT?
WHAT WAS THE POINT?
MY FRIEND DIED IN THAT WAR. IF WE LEAVE THEN HIS SACRIFICE WAS POINTLESS.

Reminder… we are not the police of the world, like it or not. And when America acted like we were the police of the world, people didn’t like that. Not at all. Not one bit. That… was the consensus. Remember the lessons of Vietnam.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
3,366
1,916
136
Taking a step back from "political junkie" role and into "guy that lives in America" role, Biden has two huge immediate issues bearing down on him, that I am interested to see how he tries to resolve:

1) Inflation. Damn, shit's expensive. Trips to the grocery store are getting painful. This is a monster of a problem since so many of the root causes are tied up in global issues, covid, etc that are outside of our immediate ability to control. Yes, its transitory, but it still hurts the pocketbook now.

2) Vietnam 2.0. I think the end of Afghanistan is going to trigger (as if we're not already feeling it a bit) a new era of "bad feelings" which is sort of a soft problem. Hearing how quickly the Afghan government has collapsed in the face of the Taliban literally made me feel a little hollow in my heart, even though I don't have a personal connection to the country. I've worked with a couple vets, even a guy that got his leg blown off driving convoys in Afghanistan, and wonder "How did we fuck it up so badly AGAIN?!". The idea of an entire generation of Afghanis having grown up in a relatively liberal climate and having that entire world end for them is deeply depressing to think about.

Lets see how he works through some of this stuff, I do not envy him or his admin at the moment.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,733
3,180
126
The Biden administration has to clean up the total show show that the Trump administration left the country in.....
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
24,241
1,866
126
The Biden administration has to clean up the total show show that the Trump administration left the country in.....
You can't blame Afghanistan on Trump, though. He inherited that problem from Obama, who had 8 years to figure out how to fix it and failed.

I've heard people here say that we should have gotten the hell out of Afghanistan as soon as we got Osama. So, why didn't we?
 

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