Biden: Clinton never figured out why she was running

[Londo_Jowo]

Donald Trump feasted on White identity politics among those lacking college degrees & on the well cultivated misperception of a poor economy. It's not a poor economy.

How blunt does it need to be to get the point across? It's the inequality, stupid. The people at the top, the people like Donald Trump, are hogging the pie. They rig the system to keep it that way. With Trump & A Repub congress they'll push it even further.

Trump loves the uneducated precisely because they lack the whatever it takes to look a little deeper, to get past the emotional bullshit & the sloganeering. Repubs have preyed on it for decades.

LMAO!!!! As if the left doesn't prey on similarly uneducated voters with their emotional bullshit. Fact is your butthurt is due to the left ignoring these same voters

 

[agent00f]

LMAO!!!! As if the left doesn't prey on similarly uneducated voters with their emotional bullshit. Fact is your butthurt is due to the left ignoring these same voters

That must be why we had the greatest inversion of the non-college vs college vote this election probably in history. Not sure if you wanna boast about that +14 uneducated white swing all riled up about them mexicans for the GOP, and almost that much the other way for Clinton for the same reason.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

That must be why we had the greatest inversion of the non-college vs college vote this election probably in history. Not sure if you wanna boast about that +14 uneducated white swing all riled up about them mexicans for the GOP, and almost that much the other way for Clinton for the same reason.

Who's boasting, I'm laughing at all the butthutt elites such as your self. Must chap your ass knowing that the uneducated decided to teach you a lesson.

 

[agent00f]

Who's boasting, I'm laughing at all the butthutt elites such as your self. Must chap your ass knowing that the uneducated decided to teach you a lesson.

Why do you separate yourself from them here? Seems they're laughing and you don't seem terribly educated.

 

[Jhhnn]

LMAO!!!! As if the left doesn't prey on similarly uneducated voters with their emotional bullshit. Fact is your butthurt is due to the left ignoring these same voters

I suppose we could have been totally insincere, lied to 'em, told 'em what they wanted to hear like Trump & the Repubs.

Are you ready for some more of that good old deregulated free market trickle down? I mean, there's nothing wrong with govt finances that tax cuts for the mega rich won't cure completely, is there?

They all deserve to pay the same tax rate as Donald, obviously. Taxes are for little people.

 

[kage69]

As much as I like Joe Biden's character and reputation as a good guy, I have to disagree with him here.

I think both Hillary and establishement Dems know full well the real reason she ran, and both feel it's better to speak of other neutral or laudable motivations, rather than personal ambition and a sense of entitlement.

 

[agent00f]

As much as I like Joe Biden's character and reputation as a good guy, I have to disagree with him here.

I think both Hillary and establishement Dems know full well the real reason she ran, and both feel it's better to speak of other neutral or laudable motivations, rather than personal ambition and a sense of entitlement.

Do many people run for political office without the ambition and belief that they deserve to win? If anything Clinton seemed less egotistical than most, but there's a differing social standard for women who want to get their way.

Worth noting I'm hardly a Clinton fan, and in part because she's rather mundane candidate for a popularity contest.

 

[kage69]

Do many people run for political office without the ambition and belief that they deserve to win?

Not knowing who you are referring to I couldn't say, but I can tell you I typed personal in front of ambition quite intentionally.

If anything Clinton seemed less egotistical than most,

Incredibly debatable. Her outward persona of being a tireless servant certainly would indicate so, but then what happened when Obama asked her to go to Israel for him in 09? Here's Bernie flying coach and posing for pics with stunned passengers, and then there's Hillary not wanting to fly commercial at all because she isn't feeling well, inform State and/or Air Force won't you? I thought her 'Defense of Wall Street after 9/11' speech in primary season was particularly ballsy (denoting ego) especially in such an anti-establishment climate.

but there's a differing social standard for women who want to get their way.

Absolutely there is, but that doesn't mean that Hillary didn't act entitled, even arrogant at times.

 

[FerrelGeek]

It's only so trivial to corner mouthy tough guys because they lack the mind to argue themselves out of it.

Speaking strictly for myself:

• I don't consider myself an internet 'tough guy' or anything remotely close. Don't even care to try to act like one.
• You're not worth the energy to type a reasonable argument as it would fly miles over your intellectually myopic mind.

 

[agent00f]

Speaking strictly for myself:

• I don't consider myself an internet 'tough guy' or anything remotely close. Don't even care to try to act like one.
• You're not worth the energy to type a reasonable argument as it would fly miles over your intellectually myopic mind.

Hey kid, I'm no tough guy or tailer material, but you dumb, and fail. hard. and not worth my time. Hahahahha

 

[Jhhnn]

Absolutely there is, but that doesn't mean that Hillary didn't act entitled, even arrogant at times.

As compared to the "Only I can fix it" arrogance of Donald Trump? WTF planet is this, anyway?

 

[agent00f]

Not knowing who you are referring to I couldn't say, but I can tell you I typed personal in front of ambition quite intentionally.

I'm referring to whether politicians for such a stage commonly come without personal ambition. I certainly can't think of many.

Incredibly debatable. Her outward persona of being a tireless servant certainly would indicate so, but then what happened when Obama asked her to go to Israel for him in 09? Here's Bernie flying coach and posing for pics with stunned passengers, and then there's Hillary not wanting to fly commercial at all because she isn't feeling well, inform State and/or Air Force won't you? I thought her 'Defense of Wall Street after 9/11' speech in primary season was particularly ballsy (denoting ego) especially in such an anti-establishment climate.

Absolutely there is, but that doesn't mean that Hillary didn't act entitled, even arrogant at times.

The greater point here is that we have a bias to pick and choose among the countless virtues or flaws in others, often to confirm our personal like or dislike of them, respectively. For even the same act/behavior, we can choose to interpret as confident or arrogant, principled or stubborn. It's certainly true that many progressives don't care for clinton, and for good reason, but it doesn't mean she's the devil for sticking to a centrist strategy that often wins elections. Personally I think there's some truth to what Biden is saying, that even if it's something she has to tell herself there's some personal responsibility/obligation when someone's the first woman to potentially go all the way that they shoulder some burden of history to go for it.

 

[kage69]

As compared to the "Only I can fix it" arrogance of Donald Trump? WTF planet is this, anyway?

Actually no, I wasn't comparing her to Trump - mostly because this thread is about Biden's thoughts on Hillary's motives.

I can't say I understand the incredulous attitude Jhhnn, makes about as much sense as acting like I'm some kind of Trump supporter.

 

[ivwshane]

Not knowing who you are referring to I couldn't say, but I can tell you I typed personal in front of ambition quite intentionally.




Incredibly debatable. Her outward persona of being a tireless servant certainly would indicate so, but then what happened when Obama asked her to go to Israel for him in 09? Here's Bernie flying coach and posing for pics with stunned passengers, and then there's Hillary not wanting to fly commercial at all because she isn't feeling well, inform State and/or Air Force won't you? I thought her 'Defense of Wall Street after 9/11' speech in primary season was particularly ballsy (denoting ego) especially in such an anti-establishment climate.




Absolutely there is, but that doesn't mean that Hillary didn't act entitled, even arrogant at times.

When was this (see bolder)?

 

[kage69]

I'm referring to whether politicians for such a stage commonly come without personal ambition. I certainly can't think of many.

Without? No. In the most base, literal sense there is nothing common about a complete lack of ambition.

I'm talking about the kind of ambition that prods certain politicians towards avenues to personal wealth. Aka greed I guess. Similar to the kind of ambition that makes people horde titles, the ambition of personal prestige. Being the first to do something is priceless to those types. Usually lots of ego involved there.

The sense of ambition rooted more in the love of service is harder to describe. To me it always involved a little of what the Japanese call "giri," which is kind of like duty sprinkled with humility. Joe Biden himself is an example of this kind of ambition, and I feel his net worth proves it. Bernie Sanders would be another good example. Usually less ego involved there, more familiar with the concept of humility.

 

[kage69]

When was this (see bolder)?

Pretty much the whole election cycle was what I was commenting on specifically, given the time frame in the OP.

She took the entire race for granted, which was displayed in a variety of ways. Not taking Michigan or Wisconsin seriously, not too interested in matching Trump's event numbers, assuming she'd have the votes of Bernie supporters despite them telling the DNC that would not be the case... I could go on, but I doubt it would convince you. I could probably cite the feelings of certain senior Dems saying outright that Hillary lost because of arrogance and you probably wouldn't be convinced.

Blaming it all on James Comey, however slimy his bit was, doesn't strike me as doing much to change the perception of arrogance either btw. One could argue it actually confirms it. Don't even get me started on Hillary's personal/public positions shit. To believe that you are entitled to less or no oversight, to feel you are entitled to change your position on an issue depending on the audience - yeah, arrogance seems to be the correct word for it.

 

[Jhhnn]

Pretty much the whole election cycle was what I was commenting on specifically, given the time frame in the OP.

She took the entire race for granted, which was displayed in a variety of ways. Not taking Michigan or Wisconsin seriously, not too interested in matching Trump's event numbers, assuming she'd have the votes of Bernie supporters despite them telling the DNC that would not be the case... I could go on, but I doubt it would convince you. I could probably cite the feelings of certain senior Dems saying outright that Hillary lost because of arrogance and you probably wouldn't be convinced.

Blaming it all on James Comey, however slimy his bit was, doesn't strike me as doing much to change the perception of arrogance either btw. One could argue it actually confirms it. Don't even get me started on Hillary's personal/public positions shit. To believe that you are entitled to less or no oversight, to feel you are entitled to change your position on an issue depending on the audience - yeah, arrogance seems to be the correct word for it.

Gawd. This endless blaming of Hillary & the Dems is getting tedious. What really happened is that we were buried under bullshit, under the first full blown political campaign of the post truth era of Trump & the Repubs. They preyed on well laid illusions & cultivated discontent well enough to snooker enough Americans to win the election. The concern trolling for poor! Bernie! was a master stroke among many. For Bernie supporters who didn't vote for Clinton, all I can say is now you'll get what you didn't have the good sense to vote against, & it won't be pretty. Well, unless you're just one of the tear it down faction in which case Trump will do the job for you.

 

[agent00f]

Without? No. In the most base, literal sense there is nothing common about a complete lack of ambition.

I'm talking about the kind of ambition that prods certain politicians towards avenues to personal wealth. Aka greed I guess. Similar to the kind of ambition that makes people horde titles, the ambition of personal prestige. Being the first to do something is priceless to those types. Usually lots of ego involved there.

The sense of ambition rooted more in the love of service is harder to describe. To me it always involved a little of what the Japanese call "giri," which is kind of like duty sprinkled with humility. Joe Biden himself is an example of this kind of ambition, and I feel his net worth proves it. Bernie Sanders would be another good example. Usually less ego involved there, more familiar with the concept of humility.

If you look back at Clinton's history, it'd be difficult to frame founding children/family policy advocacy, and education/healthcare reform as wholly selfishly motivated. And really I don't see the problem with egoistically motivated do-gooders per se.

 

[agent00f]

Pretty much the whole election cycle was what I was commenting on specifically, given the time frame in the OP.

She took the entire race for granted, which was displayed in a variety of ways. Not taking Michigan or Wisconsin seriously, not too interested in matching Trump's event numbers, assuming she'd have the votes of Bernie supporters despite them telling the DNC that would not be the case... I could go on, but I doubt it would convince you. I could probably cite the feelings of certain senior Dems saying outright that Hillary lost because of arrogance and you probably wouldn't be convinced.

Blaming it all on James Comey, however slimy his bit was, doesn't strike me as doing much to change the perception of arrogance either btw. One could argue it actually confirms it. Don't even get me started on Hillary's personal/public positions shit. To believe that you are entitled to less or no oversight, to feel you are entitled to change your position on an issue depending on the audience - yeah, arrogance seems to be the correct word for it.

Gawd. This endless blaming of Hillary & the Dems is getting tedious. What really happened is that we were buried under bullshit, under the first full blown political campaign of the post truth era of Trump & the Repubs. They preyed on well laid illusions & cultivated discontent well enough to snooker enough Americans to win the election. The concern trolling for poor! Bernie! was a master stroke among many. For Bernie supporters who didn't vote for Clinton, all I can say is now you'll get what you didn't have the good sense to vote against, & it won't be pretty. Well, unless you're just one of the tear it down faction in which case Trump will do the job for you.

Frankly it's not very hard to figure out why Trump did particularly well in the rust belt if you've ever seen how segregated it is.

 

[Vic]

What we do know is that Clinton had no real message for the American people other than that she was next in line and should be elected, coupled with the fact that Sanders did have a real message that as a counter she appeared to parrot reluctantly, that any fire she appeared to have in the belly was feigned. She also did the Obama thingi of appearing dignified in the face of Right winged insanity when what people feel and want to see is somebody who will kick you in the balls right back. As we see, if you don't kick Republicans in the balls, the frustration that develops in the voters will cause them to do that to themselves. The one form of revolution that is inevitable is self destruction.

Oh, she had a message. It was that she was genuinely competent while her opponents were ridiculously incompetent, Sanders included. This message will become more apparent as time goes on.

 

[Jaskalas]

Oh, she had a message. It was that she was genuinely competent while her opponents were ridiculously incompetent, Sanders included.

Clinton's message of genuine competence? That is called into question by horrible policy decisions.

• NAFTA
• TPP
• Iraq
• Libya
• Syria

That's a hell of a hole to dig out of without time spent on spelling it out.
Maybe there should have been a message of action, a plan to follow, a leader to take charge.
People only saw a promise of action, that vow of change, in one candidate.

Biden is trying to get it through to some very thick skulls. I give him credit for that.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Oh, she had a message. It was that she was genuinely competent while her opponents were ridiculously incompetent, Sanders included. This message will become more apparent as time goes on.

Nuh uh! She was the most socialistprogressiveconservativeneo-con ever. And she was deep in the pockets of...now what was the name of that Wall Street firm? You know, the one that Trump picked a bunch of his proposed cabinet guys from? Anyway, don't forget that she founded that terrorist group in EyeRan or EyeRak while running a Satanic child sex ring in pizza shops across America. And don't get me started on that Ben Gazi guy! Ahh, with her health she'll be dead in 6 months anyway.

 

[Vic]

Clinton's message of genuine competence? That is called into question by horrible policy decisions.

• NAFTA
• TPP
• Iraq
• Libya
• Syria

That's a hell of a hole to dig out of without time spent on spelling it out.
Maybe there should have been a message of action, a plan to follow, a leader to take charge.
People only saw a promise of action, that vow of change, in one candidate.

Biden is trying to get it through to some very thick skulls. I give him credit for that.

Biden is trying to sell the party that they missed out by not pandering to self centered idiots. That's not worthy of credit.
You'll find out just horrible those policy decisions were when it's armies crossing borders instead of trade. Personally, I'm thankful that I'm too old, and my children are still too young, to fight in the wars that you idiots are starting.

 

[Vic]

Nuh uh! She was the most socialistprogressiveconservativeneo-con ever. And she was deep in the pockets of...now what was the name of that Wall Street firm? You know, the one that Trump picked a bunch of his proposed cabinet guys from? Anyway, don't forget that she founded that terrorist group in EyeRan or EyeRak while running a Satanic child sex ring in pizza shops across America. And don't get me started on that Ben Gazi guy! Ahh, with her health she'll be dead in 6 months anyway.

You mean that one firm whose stock price is up some 30% since the election even though Hillary was supposed to be their christened one? And that Trump had once promised he'd bring down as he now appoints their leaders to cabinet positions?
But don't expect the idiots to remember that. Their memories are shorter than Dory's.

 

[Victorian Gray]

You mean that one firm whose stock price is up some 30% since the election even though Hillary was supposed to be their christened one? And that Trump had once promised he'd bring down as he now appoints their leaders to cabinet positions?
But don't expect the idiots to remember that. Their memories are shorter than Dory's.

Sorry, no Dory. I boycott all things Disney because of their promotion of immorality. I'm hoping El Presidente Donito Trumpolini will do something about that after he ascends the White House throne next month.