Bicyclists have started doing a new thing that makes me furious

[BikeJunkie]

And you keep crowing about laws supporting you...... They really don't

Oh yes they do, champ. They say I'm entitled to holding my lane and that I have the same right to the road that you do. If that's not "support" I don't know what is.

In fact, how about you tell me how the laws DON'T support me. Be specific for once.

It will require tags and registration for all bikes ridden on a road with double yellow lines, require you to ride single file and at the edge of the road, will not allow large/disruptive group rides, and will makr many public roadways in our mountain communities "off limits" to bicyclists.

Link to where I've objected to ANY of this? Hell, I can link to several posts where I specifically state I have no problem with registration. Yet you seem to love nothing more than to circle back to that same argument over and over again. But you prefer your straw men over reading comprehension, so whatever

A good number of our state reps have made it clear that they will back these bills, as their tax-paying constituents are fed up with the rude and dangerous behaviour.

Links? Not that I'm arguing one way or the other on the matter, but it's high time you start backing up your never ending stockpile of claims and rumors.

Rumor has it that in 2015 they are going to push through a bill which will require bicyclists to stay within a certain distance to the edge of the road.

Yay another 'rumor'! Link? Not that I've said cyclists should be entitled to the entire lane, only that they are entitled to the entire lane and that you are obligated to acknowledge that. Again, you fail at reading comprehension.

Law enforcement groups are running training on the proper way to ticket these people who act this way.

Since you obviously don't know the laws as they apply to cyclists, they can and do get ticked all the time for running stop signs, red lights, etc. Just like motorists do. Hey look you're talking out of your ass again. Big surprise

Your days of running wild on the road are short lived.

You seem to know a lot about how I cycle. Tell me how I run wild on the road.

 

[BikeJunkie]

<snip>

This is what I'm referring to when I said you gloss over everything. If you want to respond to me, QUOTE ME and respond to specific points that I've made. Enough with your empty platitudes, logical fallacies, and unsupported claims.

Additionally, you and I are finished until you acknowledge and reconcile your contradictions:

Then we come to the number of times you've blatantly contradicted yourself in this thread. Several of your contradictions have been called out, while other contradictions have gotten a pass because we know you just ignore the fact when it's brought to your attention. In fact, here's one:



You've gone from whining about these supposed lobbying groups (laughable in and of itself) blocking blah blah blah, to now saying they have almost no power. So which is it? You can't make up your fucking mind

But everyone has realized that these people claiming to help traffic/pollution are actually a huge cause of it.

Who is 'everyone'? Proof of such claims?

Get with the program.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I think that cyclist too would also be paying the income tax etc. Just because you pay toll doesn't mean that you own the road!

Anyways, it doesn't really matter who pay the taxes. The one who can must pay. And the less fortunate must be supported by the government.

<snip>

The fact is, a much larger "portion of the pie" is paid by motorists. I don't care how you want to divide it up to make it appear to support your cause, it doesn't change the fact that the motorists have a much larger tax burden that they must pay as a direct consequence of using the road. IE the motorists do pay for the road.

It should be the exact same for bicyclists, particularly since they want special divided lanes and treatment.

And I don't even want to get into the BS behind the poor shouldn't pay, but it's handled via deductions on your tax return anyway. So bicycle registration in relation to income should have no bearing, just like it doesn't affect vehicle registration.



All of that being said, motorists wouldn't have an issue if the majority of the bicyclists weren't such rude, selfish assholes.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

This is what I'm referring to when I said you gloss over everything. If you want to respond to me, QUOTE ME and respond to specific points that I've made. Enough with your empty platitudes, logical fallacies, and unsupported claims.

Additionally, you and I are finished until you acknowledge and reconcile your contradictions:

I'm not going to debate your 15 point posts, it would require a small novel with every post and get off topic as you pick and choose which points you want to discuss.

Therefore, I have no choice but to ignore the illogical, strawman arguments and focus on the facts at hand. Do to that I have to cut down the drivel.


Google house bill 689. It's one of many which are pushing for more effective laws against dangerous ciclists The rumors about the 'stick to the line' law come direct from state rep conversations, it's not internet info.

Like I said, you keep on with your childish behaviour. "You and I are finished until you..." is equivalent to young child sticking their fingers in their ears and humming. You're doing a piss poor job of trying to represent your "group". You're merely reinforcing the selfish attitudes and behaviour which is the impetus for these new anti-bicycle laws.

 

[Veliko]

The fact is, a much larger "portion of the pie" is paid by motorists. I don't care how you want to divide it up to make it appear to support your cause, it doesn't change the fact that the motorists have a much larger tax burden that they must pay as a direct consequence of using the road. IE the motorists do pay for the road.

It should be the exact same for bicyclists, particularly since they want special divided lanes and treatment.

And I don't even want to get into the BS behind the poor shouldn't pay, but it's handled via deductions on your tax return anyway. So bicycle registration in relation to income should have no bearing, just like it doesn't affect vehicle registration.

All of that being said, motorists wouldn't have an issue if the majority of the bicyclists weren't such rude, selfish assholes.

Most bicyclists are also motorists.

Cheers.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Most bicyclists are also motorists.

Cheers.

Most motorcyclists are also motorists and can only drive one of them at at time.

Most sports car owners also have a daily driver and can only drive one at a time.

People with boats also own cars and pay taxes on those, and can only drive one at a time.

Yet, it's all taxed seperately.

This notion that 'bicyclists pay enough taxes already' is one of the most ridiculous arguments in this entire debate. Yet another bullet point on the long list of points showing how selfish bicyclists are nowadays, and why the most motorists can't stand their viewpoints and behaviour.

 

[BikeJunkie]

I'm not going to debate your 15 point posts, it would require a small novel with every post and get off topic as you pick and choose which points you want to discuss.

That's the biggest cop-out you've put forth yet. My "15 point posts" are a result of me addressing every single point you make. I haven't cherry picked anything. I've addressed 100% of what you said. If you are incapable of affording me the same courtesy, why are you worth bothering with?

Not surprisingly, your human-to-human interactions seem to mirror your behavior on the road: entirely self-serving and one-sided. Go figure.

Google house bill 689.

It's YOUR claim, it's up to you to present evidence. Do you not know how this works?

"You and I are finished until you..." is equivalent to young child sticking their fingers in their ears and humming.

Hardly. I see a child who can't keep his own story straight. All I'm doing is holding your feet to the fire over it. Getting hot yet? Explain your contradictions. It's a very reasonable request.

the impetus for these new anti-bicycle laws.

I think it's hilarious that you see the licensing, etc. of cyclists on the roads as "anti-bicycle." Any sensible person would recognize that those laws only further support cyclists' place on the road. How are you going to wine about cyclists "slowing you down" whey they're registered and tagged? I'm REALLY looking forward to that

 

[BikeJunkie]

Most motorcyclists are also motorists

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Did you seriously just say that?

Confirmed: you're just an idiot.

 

[Veliko]

Most motorcyclists are also motorists and can only drive one of them at at time.

Most sports car owners also have a daily driver and can only drive one at a time.

People with boats also own cars and pay taxes on those, and can only drive one at a time.

Yet, it's all taxed seperately.

This notion that 'bicyclists pay enough taxes already' is one of the most ridiculous arguments in this entire debate.

Ah, classic misunderstanding of your own argument. You said:

The fact is, a much larger "portion of the pie" is paid by motorists.

So, given that most bicyclists are also motorists who are paying into that pie, it stands to reason that people point out that most bicyclists are also motorists.

Yet another bullet point on the long list of points showing how selfish bicyclists are nowadays, and why the most motorists can't stand their viewpoints and behaviour.

Most bicyclists are also motorists, so this doesn't make any sense.

Cheers.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

<snip>

Since you obviously don't know the laws as they apply to cyclists, they can and do get ticked all the time for running stop signs, red lights, etc. Just like motorists do. Hey look you're talking out of your ass again. Big surprise



You seem to know a lot about how I cycle. Tell me how I run wild on the road.

I actually know quite a bit about the laws regarding cyclists and how they're enforced.

It's very difficult to deal with ticketing a bicyclist. Most states don't require you to carry ID and these hooligan cyclists know this. It's easy to be a pain in the ass on a bicycle and make the cop's life difficult. There's no licensing system, tags, or registration so it's tough to write a ticket properly. Thankfully, the LEO community (in my area, at least) did a bunch of training a few years ago teaching these officers the proper way to ticket/arrest a cyclist who doesn't know his place. That has helped a lot with the running of red lights and stop signs, but there's currently little they can do in my state about them 'holding the lane' (which will soon be changed.)

So, right now the community is handling it via their own (legal) methods.. And fairly well, I might add. It's easy to make a cyclists uncomfortable if they want to ride in the middle of the road holding a lane.

 

[BikeJunkie]

this doesn't make any sense.

Get used to it

 

[SpatiallyAware]

<snip>


Most bicyclists are also motorists, so this doesn't make any sense.

Cheers.

You can be intentionally obtuse all you want, but you know exactly what I'm saying.

You have 2 road going vehicles yet feel as though you should only have to pay tax on one of them even though it doesn't work this way anywhere else in our society. As a "bicyclist" you are paying less tax for the number of vehicles you own and use on the roadways.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Get used to it

You're a bicyclist. You pick a topic, law, whatever and dissect it to where you feel as though you only believe or follow the parts which benefit you. The rest you just ignore, or denounce as ridiculous or dangerous.

 

[BikeJunkie]

I actually know quite a bit about the laws regarding cyclists and how they're enforced.

You do not, as evidenced by your failed critical analysis of the video clip posted earlier. This is a fact.

It's very difficult to deal with ticketing a bicyclist.

Link?

Most states don't require you to carry ID and these hooligan cyclists know this.

Proof that you know jack SHIT about cycling: 99.9% (not 100% because I refuse to speak in the absolutes you're far too comfortable with) cyclists carry a minimum of 3 articles on any road ride:

1. Identification
2. Cell phone
3. $20

If a cop pulls over a cyclist, you can bet your ass he has ID on him. Now, would it make you feel better if it was required by law? Fine. I have ZERO problem with that. Not that you're still reading at this point, given that I've already conceded several similar points previously

It's easy to make a cyclists uncomfortable if they want to ride in the middle of the road holding a lane.

Ahh, your true colors shining through. Yes, break the law by intimidating one who's abiding by it. You sir, are an excellent representative of YOUR group! But a word of advice: if your intent is to use your 2,000 pound vehicle to intimidate a cyclist, I suggest you pick a new guy. The rest of us have the legs of an ox and have no problem making an example of you

 

[BikeJunkie]

You pick a topic, law, whatever and dissect it to where you feel as though you only believe or follow the parts which benefit you. The rest you just ignore, or denounce as ridiculous or dangerous.

Do you always project like this? I'm the one advocating following the law. You're the guy who doesn't understand the law and advocates breaking it. Who's off their rocker?

You still have not reconciled your contradictions You also owe me quite a few links.

While I wait, here are a few for you. Does this help you with your "everyone is turning against cyclists!!!" fallacy?

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/20/bike-sharing-programs-growing-us/

Oops

http://citibikenyc.com/

But NYC must just be an anomaly, right

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_sharing_system#United_States

Oh shit that's a lot

 

[SpatiallyAware]

<snip>


Proof that you know jack SHIT about cycling: 99.9% (not 100% because I refuse to speak in the absolutes you're far too comfortable with) cyclists carry a minimum of 3 articles on any road ride:

1. Identification
2. Cell phone
3. $20

If a cop pulls over a cyclist, you can bet your ass he has ID on him. Now, would it make you feel better if it was required by law? Fine. I have ZERO problem with that. Not that you're still reading at this point, given that I've already conceded several similar points previously



Ahh, your true colors shining through. Yes, break the law by intimidating one who's abiding by it. You sir, are an excellent representative of YOUR group! But a word of advice: if your intent is to use your 2,000 pound vehicle to intimidate a cyclist, I suggest you pick a new guy. The rest of us have the legs of an ox and have no problem making an example of you

I seriously doubt that 99.9% of cyclists carry all that. I'm not sure how you all fit a cellphone in your getups, $20, maybe. And fine, you specifically might support licensing, but go broadcast that within your community rather than use it to concede a debate that you cannot win.

I am close to the legal community, I assure you that most cops feel as though dealing with bicyclists is a huge pain in the ass. A lot probably has to do with the elitist, selfish, incorrect viewpoints you all seem to spew.



LOL at cyclists legs. Trust me, I am not at all worried about a little leotard wearing cyclist kicking me. I have no problem standing my ground ;-) I also use a dashcam, just so some ciclist can't pull what the other idiot did in that video and ram my car. Furthermore, I would never intimidate a ciclists. I do suggest that any responsible motorist make sure a cystlist knows they're passing by using the horn as you come from behind and pass. Also pass as quickly as possible so you're not in the other lane endangering yourself even one millisecond longer than required. And if, god forbid, someone comes in the other direction do NOT risk a head on collision for any reason.

But I'm all about safety here. There are some real assholes on the road who do intimidate cyclists. And while I won't do it as I wholly respect the law, I do laugh when it happens and is socially justified.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Do you always project like this? I'm the one advocating following the law. You're the guy who doesn't understand the law and advocates breaking it. Who's off their rocker?

You still have not reconciled your contradictions You also owe me quite a few links.

While I wait, here are a few for you. Does this help you with your "everyone is turning against cyclists!!!" fallacy?

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/20/bike-sharing-programs-growing-us/

Oops

http://citibikenyc.com/

But NYC must just be an anomaly, right

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_sharing_system#United_States

Oh shit that's a lot

Your argument about motorists being fed up with cyclists and support anti-cycling laws really revolves around bike sharing programs set up and paid for by the cyclists...? You're really supporting my argument here - want special treatment, bike lanes, bike sharing... Then start paying for it. That's what will make these things successful.


Read this thread. We have people in here from NYC who are beyond upset about ciclists and their behaviour... Not just motorists either, you all treat pedestrians the same way you do cars.

People are fed up, emailng their state reps, and making it clear that they support tags/registrations, mandatory licensing/training, and easier ways to ticket these people who go around running red lights, causing traffic, and terrorizing pedestrians.

 

[BikeJunkie]

I seriously doubt that 99.9% of cyclists carry all that.

I'm sure you do... but only because it shatters your baseless argument. I - being an ACTUAL CYCLIST - know better. I would never, EVER go out on a ride without my ID, nor would any other cyclist I know. This is just you, once again, talking completely out of your ass and in nothing but platitudes. Hell, there's even a product purchased by quite a few cyclists to help identify them in:

roadid.com

This is why you have such a credibility problem. You know NOTHING of cyclists, what they believe in, how they police themselves, etc., yet you have no problem making wild claims about them. You're being a fool.

I am close to the legal community, I assure you that most cops feel as though dealing with bicyclists is a huge pain in the ass.

In other words you have zero proof and are just talking out of your ass with platitudes. Again. Gotchya :thumbsup:

LOL at cyclists legs. Trust me, I am not at all worried about a little leotard wearing cyclist kicking me. I have no problem standing my ground ;-)

That's good... you'll need to when you harass a cyclist on the road. We wouldn't be riding alongside you if we were a skittish people And we appreciate your dashcam. Once your ass heals sufficiently, it will help law enforcement put it in jail, primed for a whole new level of abuse.

Furthermore, I would never intimidate a ciclists.

Still can't make up your mind?

It's easy to make a cyclists uncomfortable if they want to ride in the middle of the road holding a lane.

I do suggest that any responsible motorist make sure a cystlist knows they're passing by using the horn as you come from behind and pass.

Good. We like that :thumbsup: Let's us know you know we're there. But given that this is the legal way to pass, it isn't new.

if, god forbid, someone comes in the other direction do NOT risk a head on collision for any reason.

If this happens, you made an illegal pass and will be charged accordingly based on any injury caused to the oncoming car or the cyclist.

Sorry, you REALLY didn't think that one through Less so than usual, impressively.

 

[BikeJunkie]

Your argument about motorists being fed up with cyclists and support anti-cycling laws really revolves around bike sharing programs set up and paid for by the cyclists...?

Shockingly, you didn't read a damn thing and just immediately formed your own ignorant conclusions. Here, let me take the VERY FIRST ONE in the list of cities with bike programs and quote it, just for you:

The San Francisco Bay Area's Bay Area Air Quality Management District, in partnership with Alta Bike Share, city governments, and transportation authorities, have announced plans for a pilot regional sharing program in 2013 for the San Francisco Peninsula and San Jose, the first such regional sharing program in the US.

Let me know if you need it in crayon. These have not been set up and paid for by just the cyclists, but rather the governments elected by the "hordes of people turning against cyclists every day"

Read this thread.

Says the guy who needs to read his own damn comments. By the way, you still have not explained all of your contradictions. This is not going away

People are fed up

See above

making it clear that they support tags/registrations, mandatory licensing

How do you keep ignoring my support for this? It's baffling. You're a broken record that takes zero input. I'm going to try to make this really, really easy for your simple little brain:

I SUPPORT THIS. I'VE SAID SO MANY TIMES NOW. IT LEGITIMIZES CYCLISTS' PLACE ON THE ROAD.

Is that better? Of course, I removed some of the fluff you added this time around... moving goalposts and all that shit. Yeah, I saw what you did

Maybe you just keep ignoring it because it completely deflates your witless argument.

 

[7window]

I am just curious, how do you ticket a cyclist? What if you don't produce an ID card? Can you just give any name?

 

[BikeJunkie]

I am just curious, how do you ticket a cyclist? What if you don't produce an ID card? Can you just give any name?

I don't know what happens if you don't produce an ID card because I don't know a single cyclist who would even think of riding without one. That said, I have no problem introducing it into law. Let's be perfectly clear: most cyclists have no problem with carrying ID, registration, etc. Anything that helps legitimize our presence on the road in the minds of the few narrow-minded motorists who are ignorant of the laws is a very welcome change.

When ticketing a cyclist with ID, it's just like ticketing a motorist, and it happens all the time. Despite SA's paranoia, cyclists get ticketed for the same violations that motorists do.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

<snip>

Let's be perfectly clear: most cyclists have no problem with carrying ID, registration, etc.


When ticketing a cyclist with ID, it's just like ticketing a motorist, and it happens all the time.

<snip>

I absolutely disagree with this. Just because you claim to be ok with it doesn't mean the rest of your group does. And only the worst of the worst cyclists get ticketed in most states.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

<snip>

These have not been set up and paid for by just the cyclists, but rather the governments elected by the "hordes of people turning against cyclists every day"


<snip>

False. As usual, you pick and choose what facts to representation based on what furthers your argument.

"Annual Membership: $95
7-Day Membership: $25
24-Hour Membership: $9.95"

It might be partially subsidized via the general fund (which means motorists pay their fair share as well) but it appears to be primarily funded by the people who use it.

http://a841-tfpweb.nyc.gov/bikeshare/faq/#how-much-is-it-going-to-cost

 

[BikeJunkie]

I absolutely disagree with this.

I'm sure you do. It shatters your argument and forces you to face the possibility that you're being wildly irrational and paranoid. But hey, tell me again why I'm talking to you if you're unwilling to take a cyclist's word for how cyclists approach cycling? No, it makes much more sense for you to manufacture your own concoctions to support what are otherwise baseless rantings.

And only the worst of the worst cyclists get ticketed in most states.

PROOF?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I'm sure you do. It shatters your argument and forces you to face the possibility that you're being wildly irrational and paranoid. But hey, tell me again why I'm talking to you if you're unwilling to take a cyclist's word for how cyclists approach cycling? No, it makes much more sense for you to manufacture your own concoctions to support what are otherwise baseless rantings.



PROOF?

Are you seriously trying to project your singular opinion that "most" cyclists are a-ok with licensing and registration to the rest of your group? I honestly can't believe you're even trying to claim that, it's just that absurd.

Have you read this thread, or any of the pro-registration threads that pop up here and elsewhere on the internet?

Your bicycling group as a whole seems to think any specific registration/tax is completely unfair and they will see no part of it.

Same with the lobbyists who represent you. If you disagree, then you need to start posting about it on bicycle forums and emailing your state rep.