bicyclists are self-entitled assholes who think they can run red lights

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Evadman

Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Feb 18, 2001
30,990
5
81
A lot of motorcycles and bikes do stuff like that. I just drive. Run into my door, I don't care. I have a dent puller. Have fun picking your teeth out of my quarter panel; I have some bondo to patch that right up. If you want, I'll even redo your face for ya. A little bondo and seran wrap will fix that sucking chest wound right up.

However, remember that not all bike and motorcyclists suck. Like most other things, It is a minority giving the majority a bad rap. Sooner or later that minority will end up under a vehicle and the balance will be restored.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
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Amsterdam has the best transportation system in the world. So many more people ride bikes when you actually give them a lane to ride in, because as we have all seen a bike doesn't fit well on the street with cars nor on the sidewalk with pedestrians. Yet it is a better personal mode of transportation than both in a flat city.
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
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Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Gibson486

Go tell your local police that. See what they say. The truth is that being a bike rider, a car is a threat to you on the road, but being a pedestrian, a bike would pose a threat for you on the sidewalk.

A car hitting a biker is likely to kill the biker, but a biker hitting a pedestrian is not likely to kill the pedestrian.

As far as safety goes, people on bikes are much more similar to pedestrians than they are to cars.

ummm...either way...someone is bound to get hurt. ....:confused:

 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
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Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Gibson486

Go tell your local police that. See what they say. The truth is that being a bike rider, a car is a threat to you on the road, but being a pedestrian, a bike would pose a threat for you on the sidewalk.

A car hitting a biker is likely to kill the biker, but a biker hitting a pedestrian is not likely to kill the pedestrian.

As far as safety goes, people on bikes are much more similar to pedestrians than they are to cars.
You are completely wrong about this.

The safest place for bikes is on the road, obeying the rules, and banned from restricted access highways.
 

angminas

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2006
3,331
26
91
Yeah, because bicyclists are evil and car drivers are good.

Probably 80% of car drivers would break every rule in the book if they could get away with it.

I love how cyclists running a red light is purest evil but you hoping they get run over by a cement truck is saintly.
 

Imdmn04

Platinum Member
Jan 28, 2002
2,566
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Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: beer
Originally posted by: Ricemarine
:thumbsup:

Bicycles should seriously be on sidewalks or bicycle lanes when provided, definitely not the road meant for cars... Hitting a pedestrian would be much better than getting run over by a car.

They have a right to the road. The sidewalks here are too packed with people.
On the road = obey road rules

/thread
Agreed. Bicycles DO NOT BELONG ON THE SIDEWALK.

Every near-accident I've had with a bike has been the result of someone riding on the sidewalk, and crossing in the pedestrian crosswalk.

You can try blaming me for this, but if you do the math, you figure out that a 10-20mph bicycle can easily get in your way, even with thorough checking and looking, etc. In fact, if you're turning left from a stopped position, the bike is quite likely travelling faster than you are.

My brother has been hit twice on a bike, both times because of this. After the second time he finally figured out that just because he 'felt safer' on the sidewalk (where he wasn't legally supposed to be), didn't make it true.

Bike and pedestrian crash on sidewalk = scratches and bruises.

Bike and car crash = broken bones and death.

The law of Conservation of Energy dictates bikes are safer to ride on the sidewalk than on the road, due to its low mass and velocity. Of course, if there is a bike lane, then it would be the best. But if there is only the road or sidewalk, the sidewalk is safer even though most lawmakers dictates it is illegal for bikes to be on sidewalks.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
21
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I love the argument I've heard from cyclists for not stopping, "It takes a lot of energy to get going again." By that reasoning, I shouldn't stop the car either, I'd get much better mileage if I didn't stop.

I see bikers up here in Seattle run red lights all the time. I've seen them go straight from the inside of a "Turn Only" lane. I've seen them riding on the sidewalk (illegal here) and be shocked that a car would dare pull over the sidewalk (not into the road) before turning to see if traffic was clear.

To be fair, the vast, vast majority of cyclists obey the rules of the road, and they have to put up with a LOT of idiots in cars, but the few morons who refuse to obey traffic laws are really giving the rest of cyclists a bad name.

ZV
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
21
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Originally posted by: mfs378
Or they give me a very wide berth (i.e. the entire lane) when they pass. I always give them a wave afterwards.
While it's not always possible to give a full lane (e.g. double-yellow line), I always try to give at least a yard of clearance between my car and the cyclist. If I can't give that clearance, I'll wait to pass. I've had several occasions where cyclists got severely agitated that I wouldn't pass them (because there was a double-yellow and I couldn't see far enough ahead to safely pass them) which I don't quite understand. They can't have it both ways. I'm not going to put myself in danger by going completely into the opposing lane on a double-yellow and I'm not going to go whizzing by with my mirror inches from the cyclist's head.

ZV
 

zylander

Platinum Member
Aug 25, 2002
2,501
0
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Originally posted by: beer
I swear to ****** god, one of my goals in life is to cripple one of these assholes that thinks they don't have any reason to stop at red lights. I live in SF where motorists/bicyclist run-ins are common, but their sense of self-entitlement just really, really pisses me off.

I got into a shouting match at 2nd and Brannon about 30 minutes ago- the light turned green and I took off, and a bicyclist entered the intersection and fell to the ground in an attempt to avoid my car. I had 100% right of way. Somehow it is my fault the mother ****** ran the red light - they just don't feel they need to stop.

The city here does not enforce red light rules against bicyclists at all. Therefore, it seems, they do not think the have any reason to stop. At any red light. Ever. One of them got mowed down by a cement truck onto turning onto 101 last month. What the hell do you expect, you choose to not stop at red lights, you get killed, and it's the city's fault for not protecting your ass? Now we can't turn right at Market and Octavia because your worthless ass thinks you don't need to stop. And it's a perfectly useful intersection - the reason why we can't turn is simply because you complained to the city. And guess what? I think a few more got hit since the cement truck incident - for not stopping.

Examples need to be made of this. If the city won't enforce it, my 3400 lb vehicle will.

/rant

Agreed 110%, I cant stand the bicyclists in this city. Always running red lights and stop signs and never paying attention to the cars around them.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
21
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Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: blurredvision
Roads are built for HIGH-SPEED vehicles. Unless you can keep up with the majority of the vehicles on the road, then prepare to get run over. THAT is how it really is.
Prepare for teh prison-sex, you're going down for manslaughter.
While I do NOT agree with the method siggested, it's really common sense not to go biking on a road where you cannot keep up with traffic speed and where there aren't good sightlines and shoulders. For example, there's no amount of money in the world that could induce me to cycle on CA-1 just south of Leggett. A driver could be doing everything, and I mean everything, right and still run me over because there just isn't enough space on the road to avoid a cyclist given the sightlines. Just because something is legal doesn't make it wise or courteous.

ZV
 

fierydemise

Platinum Member
Apr 16, 2005
2,056
2
81
I'm a cyclist and I try to obey the rules of the road although I do see a number of asshole cyclists who feel entitled. By the same token there are a number of asshole drivers who feel entitled. The worst are the drivers who go after cyclists just because they're in some hummer type monstrosity and I'm on my bike.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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The law allows bicyclists to occupy an entire lane. That's what I do. I am not going to share a lane with a car, anymore than I would if I was driving a car.
It's a lot more dangerous to have cars passing you on the left in same lane at high speed than to have them have to slow down and pass you in a different lane.
Oh yeah, If you cannot stop within your sightline, you are driving too fast.
 

OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,490
4
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Originally posted by: Agentbolt
It really seems to be a San Fran issue, mostly. Here in Tucson there's plenty of bikers and they get along pretty well with the motorists on the road. Part of that probably has to do with the fact that cops here will crack skulls if the bikers are caught screwing around on the road. Which is at it should be, a fender-bender with a bike = dead bike rider. They need to be more careful than someone in a car.

It does depend on your area, I have the same problem as the OP here in Davis, a notorious bike friendly city. So bikes don't feel the need to stop at stop signs, red lights, or bother to look before swerving in and out of the bike lane for fun. The sad thing is I know that even if a biker does something insanely stupid like merging out in front of me without looking and I hit them.. It will be my fault. I hope some day this changes and if a biker does something stupid they have to pay for it. It is just so annoying that because I drive a car I am a bad person and immediately at fault.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
21
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Originally posted by: senseamp
If you cannot stop within your sightline, you are driving too fast.
You've never been on CA-1, have you. If you followed that rule you'd never go faster than 10mph on CA-1. It's marked at 50mph and the cars go 50mph. If the cars are fully following the posted signs you are still likely to end up dead.

ZV
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
21
81
Originally posted by: senseamp
The law allows bicyclists to occupy an entire lane. That's what I do. I am not going to share a lane with a car, anymore than I would if I was driving a car.
And you pull over all the time to let cars pass on back roads then, right? You're aware that it's illegal to hold up traffic and that if there are 5 or more cars in line behind you and you're going under the speed limit you are required by law to pull over and let them around you, right? (It's common courtesy to do this even for one car.) Since you're so well-versed in the laws of the road I'm assuming that you're doing this.

ZV
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
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Originally posted by: Ricemarine
:thumbsup:

Bicycles should seriously be on sidewalks or bicycle lanes when provided, definitely not the road meant for cars... Hitting a pedestrian would be much better than getting run over by a car.
Sidewalks are for people.

Bikes belong on the road - not on the sidewalk.

 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Originally posted by: Imdmn04
Bike and pedestrian crash on sidewalk = scratches and bruises.

Bike and car crash = broken bones and death.

The law of Conservation of Energy dictates bikes are safer to ride on the sidewalk than on the road, due to its low mass and velocity. Of course, if there is a bike lane, then it would be the best. But if there is only the road or sidewalk, the sidewalk is safer even though most lawmakers dictates it is illegal for bikes to be on sidewalks.

What you're missing is that the best way to get bikes and cars to crash into each other is for bikes to use the sidewalk.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: senseamp
The law allows bicyclists to occupy an entire lane. That's what I do. I am not going to share a lane with a car, anymore than I would if I was driving a car.
And you pull over all the time to let cars pass on back roads then, right? You're aware that it's illegal to hold up traffic and that if there are 5 or more cars in line behind you and you're going under the speed limit you are required by law to pull over and let them around you, right? (It's common courtesy to do this even for one car.) Since you're so well-versed in the laws of the road I'm assuming that you're doing this.

ZV
Only if there is a big gap in the cars parked on the right that I can bike on while they pass.
The streets I bike on, they usually lose patience and pass me on the oncoming lane before there are 5 cars behind me.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
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Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: senseamp
The law allows bicyclists to occupy an entire lane. That's what I do. I am not going to share a lane with a car, anymore than I would if I was driving a car.
And you pull over all the time to let cars pass on back roads then, right? You're aware that it's illegal to hold up traffic and that if there are 5 or more cars in line behind you and you're going under the speed limit you are required by law to pull over and let them around you, right? (It's common courtesy to do this even for one car.) Since you're so well-versed in the laws of the road I'm assuming that you're doing this.

ZV
Who wouldn't get out of the way at the first safe opportunity? Anyone who doesn't is an ass.

The law where I am entitles a bicycle to a meter from the curb (I think), or a whole lane if sharing is not safe due to narrow lanes. This is pretty well left to the cyclist's discretion, since they're the one who stands to be seriously injured.

Although I'm not well-versed in American traffic laws, I suspect your 5-car rule is a state-level law at the 'highest' and quite possibly municipal.
 

OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,490
4
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Originally posted by: KarmaPolice
I like to ride my bike a lot. I ride on the road obviously but I try to stay out of the way as much as possible and often do the to turns to make a left instead of crossing over a lane. I do agree tho...when traffic stops i stop acting like a car and go right through traffic. Its hard not to! Come on its what bikes are good at. Also on red lights..I stop at a red light..but if no one is coming I am going to start to go through it...but where the walk way is...not right through the middle of the intersection.

It's ironic that your name is KarmaPolice... I'm sure Karma will be paying you a visit in the near future if you don't start to obey traffic signals.
 

tomywishbone

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2006
1,401
0
0
"...As far as safety goes, people on bikes are much more similar to pedestrians than they are to cars...."

As a former USCF Cat 1 track, Cat 2 road, NORBA Expert and bike messenger for Silver Bullet in SF (late 80's):D, I respectfully, strongly disagree.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
People should stop b!tching about it. Just ride your bike with any regularity, and pretty soon you will start cutting corners too.
For example, where I live the left turn lights turns green before the main light turns green. But if there are no oncoming cars turning left, then I will just go forward on the left turn signal and get a head start. It is perfectly safe. Same with red lights, I don't just go without looking like an idiot, I slow down enough to make sure there is no crosstraffic, then proceed if it's safe or stop if it's not.
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
46
91
Car > Bike. You ride on the road with little protection against the masses in their cars and trucks so prepare for random pwnage. Cars/Truck drivers have a hard enough time not running to each other, so you take your life into your own hands with your little contraptions.

Now I'm not saying that drivers should mow down cyclists that piss them off (and by God, the piss me the hell off around here), but I'm not the least bit surprised when one of them ends up under a 4-Runner.