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Bicycle Training

OILFIELDTRASH

OILFIELDTRASH

Lifer
I am new to bicycle riding and I really like the sport. I am in pretty good shape and I want to take my bicycle riding to the next level. I ride on these trails around here (Ft. Worth, Tx) and I thought I was doing pretty good until a couple of guys passed me up like I was sitting still. Now I have to get serious. I have really strong legs (I squat about 370lbs 1 rep max) so I know it isn't leg strength alone that gives you that speed cause I know those skinny bicyclists can't squat 370lbs. So what type of training should I be doing? I want to stay at about 20mph or more constant speed. Please don't refer me a bike forum cause I feel comfortable on AT and I know there are some serious bike riders on here. I'm also planning on dropping my weight to about 180lbs. Im at 195lbs right now with a good amount of muscle. Thanks.
 
Ok I'm no bike rider and I'm glad you're enjoying it so I won't crap on your sport though I think bike riding is stupid, but I'll try to keep this objective. To me biking isn't a sport, but a way to get somewhere. But I'll check that George Carlin sentiment right here.

Biking essentially only isolates your legs and maybe some other muscles like lower abs as a secondary measure. So any bit of weight you are carrying that isn't in those muscles is just going to slow you down. Biking speed is all about power to weight ratio. Cyclists, just like fast runners are stick people with strong legs compared to their overall mass. I personally don't think that is healthy, and if I got bit by the cycling bug I would have fun and realize I don't won't be as good as the stick people and compete against my own personal times as a goal.

I used to run and throw kicks in TKD all the time, weigh about 230 at 6'3", and I live in VT with very steep hills. When I would bike uphill it was nearly an impossibility for me. I realize they have better bikes and gears now but still, it was all about power to weight ratio, and my weight was too much.

It sounds like you are too heavy. Also if you are new to biking there will be some gain in your muscles and nervous system learning how to do it right, this can take 4-6 months to become fully ingrained.

Lance armstrong isn't out winning marathons, and super runners aint winning the Tour de France. Overall fitness is best achieved by a mix of exercises to keep the body guessing and not adapting to any one thing.

So how to lose weight? Just bike a lot and stop your lifting routine. You will drop muscle mass easily, along with some fat.

It really all comes down to how you define your personal health and answer for yourself one simple question.

What are your goals?
 
I thought the same thing about bicyclists "it isn't a sport". You are so wrong though. These guys are some serious athletes. Their muscular endurance, leg strength, cardio are amazing. Those guys train just as hard as any other sport. Now if you say nascar or golf isn't a sport you've got a point.
 
Biking is a true sport in every conceivable manner.

From dictionary.com:

An athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
Click to expand...

So Titan, where does biking fall short (in your opinion) and what IS a sport (in your opinion)?
 
Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASH
I thought the same thing about bicyclists "it isn't a sport". You are so wrong though. These guys are some serious athletes. Their muscular endurance, leg strength, cardio are amazing. Those guys train just as hard as any other sport. Now if you say nascar or golf isn't a sport you've got a point.
Click to expand...

Well I won't get into a semantic debate with you or pull some annoying ass shite like grabbing a dictionary to see, I'll just agree that everyone has their own definition of sport.

It really comes down to your personal philosophy. Come people (usually chess players) argue that chess is a sport.

George Carlin had a great routine where he talked about all this, to him only baseball, football and basketball counted as sports and the rest were just games or activities. I can't find a decent link to it, it was on one of his oddball albums "playing with your head". Some great lines like "Swimming isn't a sport. Swimming is a way to keep from drowning!"

But back to your point, I don't think something should be classified as a sport because of how hard it is to do. Nascar and pro Golf require hours of training and experience to be good at them. And Nascar is dangerous.

It's a silly debate really, and we all make it.

I guess you could break things down into two pieces. One is personal challenge, and the other is competition with others.

I like personal challenge. I feel I have grown when I have overcome a challenge and attained a goal. The most intimidating challenge is facing the unknown but that doesn't scare me any more, I welcome it. A little of spiritual philosophy there.

I like competition, it helps put yourself into perspective. But I don't let it define me. A competition will provide one of many possible frames of reference. I always say in most competitions you can't get any better than the people you compete against.

I'm sure you'll have fun biking. It's just not for me, I know most skinny people will beat me on a bike and I don't ever want to be that light.

My personal annoyance comes from living in VT where we have a million road bikers and our roads are windy and hilly, often with blind spots, and no shoulder. I know one day there will be a biker cresting a hill and I will cross the double yellow to pass him, see a semi coming from over the hill, and swerve to take out the biker. Seriously, go find a bike path. Our main US route 2 has no shoulder for most of it.
 
Originally posted by: Megatomic
Biking is a true sport in every conceivable manner.

From dictionary.com:

An athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
Click to expand...

So Titan, where does biking fall short (in your opinion) and what IS a sport (in your opinion)?
Click to expand...

Ok, I saw this after my other post.

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion.

skill OR physical prowess?

Do you see chess as a sport? Or Magic the Gathering? They are both quite competitive and require more skill than your average athlete has.

I don't think they are a sport. clearly a game to me.

But that's my opinion.

Edit to answer your question of where I see biking: it's like driving. If driving isn't a sport, then biking isn't a sport. It's a way to get somewhere, and an expression of human technology and ingenuity. I guess that means to me I would define a sport where the only technology used is the object of the game (goal posts, the ball) or for protection (pads in football). Otherwise it's just about using your body with no technology. If we get to the quarterback in football shooting the ball out of an arm cannon, it will cease to be a sport.
 
Originally posted by: Titan
Originally posted by: Megatomic
Biking is a true sport in every conceivable manner.

From dictionary.com:

An athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
Click to expand...

So Titan, where does biking fall short (in your opinion) and what IS a sport (in your opinion)?
Click to expand...

Ok, I saw this after my other post.

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion.

skill OR physical prowess?

Do you see chess as a sport? Or Magic the Gathering? They are both quite competitive and require more skill than your average athlete has.

I don't think they are a sport. clearly a game to me.

But that's my opinion.
Click to expand...
Technically, football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer, volleyball, lacrosse, etc. are all "games" and yet considered sports. So whether an activity is a game or not is apparently not a criteria for whether it's a sport or not. In chess, checkers, MTG, D&D, etc. skill is required but there is no athletic competitiveness involved. To me that would the defining criteria. But that's just my opinion.
 
Originally posted by: Titan
My personal annoyance comes from living in VT where we have a million road bikers and our roads are windy and hilly, often with blind spots, and no shoulder. I know one day there will be a biker cresting a hill and I will cross the double yellow to pass him, see a semi coming from over the hill, and swerve to take out the biker. Seriously, go find a bike path. Our main US route 2 has no shoulder for most of it.
Click to expand...

Well, this is your problem right here. Why are you complaining about a rider that is out legally riding on a road? And why are you illegally trying to pass him over a double yellow line? You would be at fault if your hypothetical ever happened, and hopefully you will pay attention and not kill someone. You follow behind until it is safe to pass, just like if there was a slow car in front of you.

Now on to athletics, bicycle racing is a much a sport as track and field, or Nascar, or football, or soccer, etc.....

Riding a bicycle isn't racing, but the people that do race are athletes, as much as anyone else. There are plenty of injuries in crashes, and some deaths too from racing, just like Nascar, and bike racers don't get the benefit of having a huge car strapped around them for protection.
 
Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat
Originally posted by: Titan
My personal annoyance comes from living in VT where we have a million road bikers and our roads are windy and hilly, often with blind spots, and no shoulder. I know one day there will be a biker cresting a hill and I will cross the double yellow to pass him, see a semi coming from over the hill, and swerve to take out the biker. Seriously, go find a bike path. Our main US route 2 has no shoulder for most of it.
Click to expand...

Well, this is your problem right here. Why are you complaining about a rider that is out legally riding on a road? And why are you illegally trying to pass him over a double yellow line? You would be at fault if your hypothetical ever happened, and hopefully you will pay attention and not kill someone. You follow behind until it is safe to pass, just like if there was a slow car in front of you.

Now on to athletics, bicycle racing is a much a sport as track and field, or Nascar, or football, or soccer, etc.....

Riding a bicycle isn't racing, but the people that do race are athletes, as much as anyone else. There are plenty of injuries in crashes, and some deaths too from racing, just like Nascar, and bike racers don't get the benefit of having a huge car strapped around them for protection.
Click to expand...

Ok so I'm being the asshole for breaking the law crossing the double yellow if you want to play that card.

Change my scenario around a little bit. What happens when I come over the blind hill and the rider has already crested the hill and is suddenly in the road in front of me? This happens a lot too. I have had to swerve into the other lane with split-second timing to avoid hitting them. And I was just lucky because traffic isn't always so dense in VT, that there wasn't a truck in the other lane. Biking on these main roads in VT is dangerous, pure and simple. I'm guessing you're not from here. As I said there is no shoulder. It's white line, 2 inches of pavement then dirt/grass/ditch. We have plenty of dirt and back roads and old trails and mountains for biking there is no need for it. But these people are just commuting because main roads are in the valley following the river. To them, biking is just a way to get somewhere.

And if you want to make it that I have to never cross the double yellow that's absurd. There are stretches of road for 15 miles before it is legal to pass. Practically no straightaways. Do you really expect cars to pile up behind some cyclist for 15 miles instead of breaking the almighty law? It doesn't happen.
 
Mountain biking of course it's a sport. It combines intense physical fitness with skill. Road cycling is much lighter on skill, but the technical skills of a mountain biker are very high. Take a road cyclist with no mountain biking prowess and he'd be eaten for lunch on a trail.

Anyway, 20mph constant speed on all but the most pitiful trails is not possible even for an elite cyclist.

First and foremost sport has always been about physical toughness.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Mountain biking of course it's a sport. It combines intense physical fitness with skill. Road cycling is much lighter on skill, but the technical skills of a mountain biker are very high. Take a road cyclist with no mountain biking prowess and he'd be eaten for lunch on a trail.

Anyway, 20mph constant speed on all but the most pitiful trails is not possible even for an elite cyclist.

First and foremost sport has always been about physical toughness.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Driving, pool, golf. To me, they're all games. Bowling is borderline. I feel if you can be overweight and good at the activity, it's not a sport. I barely even consider baseball a sport sometimes due to the lack of activity. However, biking requires a great deal of conditioning and technique (if you do it well).
 
I'm way too big for MTBing, I still enjoy it though. Now, if the guys that dusted you like a trail slug are the prototypical 145 lbs serious riders, you are boned IMO. They are built for it, you are not, even@180 you would be on the heavier end, just not Clydesdale class, like myself. You can get to where you can hug their tire for awhile, but by the time that 6-8 mile loop is done, they will likely have shaken you loose. Again, that is if they are serious riders around 150lbs or less.

 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Mountain biking of course it's a sport. It combines intense physical fitness with skill. Road cycling is much lighter on skill, but the technical skills of a mountain biker are very high. Take a road cyclist with no mountain biking prowess and he'd be eaten for lunch on a trail.

Anyway, 20mph constant speed on all but the most pitiful trails is not possible even for an elite cyclist.

First and foremost sport has always been about physical toughness.
Click to expand...

Lance Armstrong destroyed Leadville 100 MTB record. Absolutely annihilated top mountain bikers, even though he rode last 10 miles on a flat tire.
 
Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASH
It is road cycling I'm interested in
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Two mistakes I usually see in beginners:

1. Cadence (revolution of the crank) is too low - quit trying to muscle the gear, and spin it! Watch the pros, and how quick their legs move, then try it yourself. It takes a while to get comfortable at 80-100 RPMs, but that's where you'll probably be fastest.

2. Proper positioning, especially seat height. Most people have it far too low. When the pedal is at the bottom of the stroke, the leg on that side should be near straight.
 
My advice is measure your time and try to improve it next time you ride. A lot of it is pain tolerance too, especially if you ride hills. You have to be a bit of a masochist to push on when your muscles are screaming time-out.
There are always going to be guys who drop you like you are standing still. I would aim to improve your riding and not worry about them. Also, it's not just about leg strength, it's about leg power. Power is torque*rpms.
You may be better off riding in lower gear and spinning faster. Also consider joining a bike club and go on team rides. A lot of road biking is about team work and strategy too.
 
I was wondering about cadence. I thought I was going faster when my legs were going crazy fast like a cartoon. What weight are you guys?
 
lol @ biking isn't a sport. Neither is anything else; they're just ways to pass time.

lol @ basing your ideas on what defines a sport on a stand up routine.

OP: What kind of bike do you ride?
 
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Mountain biking of course it's a sport. It combines intense physical fitness with skill. Road cycling is much lighter on skill, but the technical skills of a mountain biker are very high. Take a road cyclist with no mountain biking prowess and he'd be eaten for lunch on a trail.

Anyway, 20mph constant speed on all but the most pitiful trails is not possible even for an elite cyclist.

First and foremost sport has always been about physical toughness.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Driving, pool, golf. To me, they're all games. Bowling is borderline. I feel if you can be overweight and good at the activity, it's not a sport. I barely even consider baseball a sport sometimes due to the lack of activity. However, biking requires a great deal of conditioning and technique (if you do it well).
Click to expand...
Bowling is not a sport, IMO. Not anymore than billiards.

Lance Armstrong destroyed Leadville 100 MTB record. Absolutely annihilated top mountain bikers, even though he rode last 10 miles on a flat tire.
Click to expand...
He also has been mountain biking for years, I believe, if not at the elite level.

Good point about cadence, it has to be higher than most people do it at.

Regarding seat height, I'm not sure if it should be lower for mountain biking. I bet it should because of balance reasons, but certainly a lot of people have their seats too low. I see a guy riding around my 'hood regularly on a mountain bike and his seat is at the VERY BOTTOM. Even at full extension his knees are at terrible angles.
 
Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASH
I have a 09 CAAD 9 5 cannondale road bike
and a 09 Trek 4500 mtn bike
Click to expand...

Alright, I wanted to make sure you weren't on a beater wondering why people were flying past you.

I agree with the other posters about cadence - mess around with different gears and to try to make sure the bike is working for you, not against you.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Regarding seat height, I'm not sure if it should be lower for mountain biking. I bet it should because of balance reasons, but certainly a lot of people have their seats too low.
Click to expand...

Some people like to put their seat a little lower on their MTB because it lowers the center of gravity, but to me, that 'benefit' is negligible, and it's better to maintain a consistent seat height among your bikes.
 
Dropping a bit of weight will certainly improve your cycling. It sounds like you have a lot of muscular strength from lifting, but how is your cardiovascular fitness? A mixture of long rides, HIIT and hill climbing will get you very fit for cycling.
 
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