Bible readers

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
[
Absolutely I believe every word.

I am not going to get into an argument with you. If you want a civil discussion, that is great; however, I will report this thread if it comes down to vulgar or profane language directed at me, my set of beliefs, or anyone else's set of beliefs (Yes, if someone comes in and bashes Ahteism, they will be reported just as fast).

Leviticus is largely around to show us, in present day, what life was like before Jesus. Before he took all of those laws in Leviticus on the cross and died with them.

Now, if you broke a law back in the era before Christ (Leviticus), you would have to offer some sort of a sacrifice to atone for your mistake.

Since Jesus came, he was crucified with EVERY SINGLE SIN on his shoulders. He was perfect, and he took EVERY SINGLE SIN of ours to the grave so we would never have to deal with those consequences again. He then rose from the dead to show that he had conquered death and sin and to proclaim that he would return one day to rid the world of sin.

Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. No matter how many times we screw up, nothing can surpass Jesus's sacrifice; and, therefore, we are saved.

This leaves us with the dilemma of why Leviticus is in the Bible still if Jesus took all those sins. Well there are two reasons:
A.) To show Christians what life was like before Jesus - in a world where sacrifices must be made for sin.
B.) To give us commandments to strive to achieve

Homosexuality for instance - yes it is a sin. But that sin is no different than me lying or cheating. Both were taken with Jesus to the cross and crucified - therefore I don't need to sacrifice for lying and they don't have to sacrifice for their choice.

We as Christians are called to embrace these people as brothers and sisters in Christ just the same as anyone else. Anyone who does not embrace them as a brother or sister in Christ is, once again, ignoring the commandment to "love one another".

Please keep this discussion clean - I love to discuss these things on AT Forums and elsewhere, but I hate it when people simply bash another person's ideas or beliefs - at least be mature enough to back out of the thread if you cannot discuss in a civil tongue.

In Him,
-Kevin

you know, that actually makes some sense. Unfortunately, few of the Baptists that I've come across believe in such a way. Many of them believe that OT God = Jesus. Therefore, the word of OT God = Jesus' word.

crazy, I know. but these people think that, and there are tons of them. ...and they vote...on those beliefs.

Well, at least it's good to know that there are some who can cling to rational thought processes after interpreting the word God knows how many times...
:beer:

I appreciate the remarks! It is nice to have a good discussion that is respectful. You actually have no idea how much I needed that (I've been working through a lot lately and needed reassurance that I am being bold in my faith and not coming off as pompous or something - that I'm doing something right...)

Thats the thing about the Church. A lot of Christians claim to know the Bible, but Psalm 139 touches on how vast it is and how we can't ever hope to understand every part of God's plan.

-Kevin

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

He didn't give me 10 points. He gave me 10 stereotypes that people always try to use!

-Kevin

Again typical 'religious' answer to not give an answer.

The OP only posted:
Could you give me 10 key points of the book?


I used to be married into a very baptist, educated family. Most of the relatives had not only received regular degrees, but also went on or from degrees in theology and seminary.

I took bible classes taught from the non-religious standpoint. We focused on the events of the time and the history at that time. A lot of things simply did not make sense and left either the history was changed or the bible was changed or either one simply made things up.

I will say though most of the religious are more interested in you hearing the story and getting into a church than giving one any direct answers.

I have even been told that the words are encoded that only one that has spent decades in faith can truly understand.

IMHO the bible would not have been written at any level that would have required more than a rudimentary education to understand if it was truly about getting the story out.

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
[
Absolutely I believe every word.

I am not going to get into an argument with you. If you want a civil discussion, that is great; however, I will report this thread if it comes down to vulgar or profane language directed at me, my set of beliefs, or anyone else's set of beliefs (Yes, if someone comes in and bashes Ahteism, they will be reported just as fast).

Leviticus is largely around to show us, in present day, what life was like before Jesus. Before he took all of those laws in Leviticus on the cross and died with them.

Now, if you broke a law back in the era before Christ (Leviticus), you would have to offer some sort of a sacrifice to atone for your mistake.

Since Jesus came, he was crucified with EVERY SINGLE SIN on his shoulders. He was perfect, and he took EVERY SINGLE SIN of ours to the grave so we would never have to deal with those consequences again. He then rose from the dead to show that he had conquered death and sin and to proclaim that he would return one day to rid the world of sin.

Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. No matter how many times we screw up, nothing can surpass Jesus's sacrifice; and, therefore, we are saved.

This leaves us with the dilemma of why Leviticus is in the Bible still if Jesus took all those sins. Well there are two reasons:
A.) To show Christians what life was like before Jesus - in a world where sacrifices must be made for sin.
B.) To give us commandments to strive to achieve

Homosexuality for instance - yes it is a sin. But that sin is no different than me lying or cheating. Both were taken with Jesus to the cross and crucified - therefore I don't need to sacrifice for lying and they don't have to sacrifice for their choice.

We as Christians are called to embrace these people as brothers and sisters in Christ just the same as anyone else. Anyone who does not embrace them as a brother or sister in Christ is, once again, ignoring the commandment to "love one another".

Please keep this discussion clean - I love to discuss these things on AT Forums and elsewhere, but I hate it when people simply bash another person's ideas or beliefs - at least be mature enough to back out of the thread if you cannot discuss in a civil tongue.

In Him,
-Kevin

you know, that actually makes some sense. Unfortunately, few of the Baptists that I've come across believe in such a way. Many of them believe that OT God = Jesus. Therefore, the word of OT God = Jesus' word.

crazy, I know. but these people think that, and there are tons of them. ...and they vote...on those beliefs.

Well, at least it's good to know that there are some who can cling to rational thought processes after interpreting the word God knows how many times...
:beer:

I think you need to understand that Baptists are, for the most part, completely independent of each other. I don't know what Baptists you're around, but they (we) shouldn't think that everything in the OT applies now, because it does not - specifically the Jewish laws.

We believe in the Trinity, so God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all God... I don't think you have a good understanding of what Baptists believe... 😕

 

[sandorski]

"Religious War"? Well, that's a convenient way to look at it, but the Reality is quite different. The Israelites once lived in the Hood. Hard times came and they all moved to Egypt because it was a Pimping place. For many generations they hung out and bred like rabbits. Then the Egyptians got all paranoid and decided to be the Man and put the Israelites to work doing the Jobs Egyptians didn't want to do. Moses was all, "WTF?" and lead the Israelites away from Egypt to return to the old Hood. Non-Israelites were now in the Hood and the only way to move back was to go all Genocide on their asses. So that's what they did. Except they had a moral dilemna part way through and let some of the Non-Israelites live.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Arrrr, tis a book I've never read and likely nevarrrrr will.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: SirStev0

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: SirStev0
A simple google and 15 million nutballs all saying the same quote.

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Still believe every word?

That's Old Testament law that was fulfilled with the death of Christ, therefore not applying anymore. The New Testament law, Jesus' Sermon on the Mount found starting in Matthew 5 is the new law. OT law doesn't matter anymore, only NT law.

Well, that's what the nutjobs will say to justify the Bible saying that gays should be burned at the steak or something but then professing love thy brother above all else.

If you're going to bother making a statement, anticipate their reply 😛

This now makes you one of five people who have been claim this. The point is a majority of your fellow parishioners don't get this point.


EDIT: Side note. Maybe this is just something inherint in a certain sect or branch? Out of interest and if it is okay to ask, What flavor do you subscribe?

Probably the flavor of reason.

Except for groups like the Southern Baptists (who I will remind you, split from the Baptists over the issue of slavery!) most Christian denominations certainly emphasize the NT and Jesus' teachings. In my experience more who identify themselves as Christian love the NT and mostly ignore the OT/Hebrew Bible.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: fire400
e-mail the Mormons at mormon.org or lds.org

they'll answer you personally, I hear.

If he wants to fail his homework assignment by mentioning the Book of Mormon, sure.

Mormons have vastly different scriptures and theology from mainstream Christian groups. Using their summary/interpretation of Joshua would be a Bad Idea.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

He didn't give me 10 points. He gave me 10 stereotypes that people always try to use!

-Kevin

Again typical 'religious' answer to not give an answer.

The OP only posted:
Could you give me 10 key points of the book?


I used to be married into a very baptist, educated family. Most of the relatives had not only received regular degrees, but also went on or from degrees in theology and seminary.

I took bible classes taught from the non-religious standpoint. We focused on the events of the time and the history at that time. A lot of things simply did not make sense and left either the history was changed or the bible was changed or either one simply made things up.

I will say though most of the religious are more interested in you hearing the story and getting into a church than giving one any direct answers.

I have even been told that the words are encoded that only one that has spent decades in faith can truly understand.

IMHO the bible would not have been written at any level that would have required more than a rudimentary education to understand if it was truly about getting the story out.

Not to give an answer? We have debated this many times before Alk, and every single time I give an answer, you completely ignore it.

Bolded: That is absolutely and completely false - I am sorry that someone had told you that!

As for your final statement, not every part of the Bible is ridiculously hard to understand. Yes, most of the Bible is hard to understand, but the simple message is not!

-Kevin

 

[Homerboy]

Wow... I have to say this is arguably one of the best threads on ATOT I think I have ever seen.
Intellectual, intelligent, cordial....and its based on Religion!? That's unpossible!

Great posts and discussion everyone. Hard not to throw my own 2 cents in... I will quietly sit in my lawnchair and listen.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Not to give an answer? We have debated this many times before Alk, and every single time I give an answer, you completely ignore it.

Bolded: That is absolutely and completely false - I am sorry that someone had told you that!

As for your final statement, not every part of the Bible is ridiculously hard to understand. Yes, most of the Bible is hard to understand, but the simple message is not!

-Kevin

I have not seen an answer to the OP's question.

Also some are assuming the version of the Bible the OP is looking for answers from.

Personally I don't think any of the bible is hard to understand, but it's easy to complicate.

I'd say roughly 90% of 'religion' comes from things never in it.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: SirStev0

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: SirStev0
A simple google and 15 million nutballs all saying the same quote.

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Still believe every word?

That's Old Testament law that was fulfilled with the death of Christ, therefore not applying anymore. The New Testament law, Jesus' Sermon on the Mount found starting in Matthew 5 is the new law. OT law doesn't matter anymore, only NT law.

Well, that's what the nutjobs will say to justify the Bible saying that gays should be burned at the steak or something but then professing love thy brother above all else.

If you're going to bother making a statement, anticipate their reply 😛

This now makes you one of five people who have been claim this. The point is a majority of your fellow parishioners don't get this point.


EDIT: Side note. Maybe this is just something inherint in a certain sect or branch? Out of interest and if it is okay to ask, What flavor do you subscribe?

I'm agnostic, noob. However, what I posted is commonly accepted as "duh, bonehead" in higher levels of religious education such as seminary, which I started years ago before I pulled my head out of my ass 😛

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Not to give an answer? We have debated this many times before Alk, and every single time I give an answer, you completely ignore it.

Bolded: That is absolutely and completely false - I am sorry that someone had told you that!

As for your final statement, not every part of the Bible is ridiculously hard to understand. Yes, most of the Bible is hard to understand, but the simple message is not!

-Kevin

I have not seen an answer to the OP's question.

Also some are assuming the version of the Bible the OP is looking for answers from.

Personally I don't think any of the bible is hard to understand, but it's easy to complicate.

I'd say roughly 90% of 'religion' comes from things never in it.

He hasn't answered my question. It is impossible to accurate sum up a book of the Bible in 10 points. If you want 10 events, certainly, I can do that, but to sum up in 10 points the book in general (events AND lessons) is hard. I asked him if he was looking for something particular - I haven't gotten a response back yet...

What is this version of the Bible you speak of? He quoted from The Holy Bible. To my knowledge there is only, and will ever only, be one of those. If you are referring to translation, then I don't think it matters which translation since they all say the same thing (some are merely more eloquent than others).

Alk, have you ever thought that the reason myself and other Christians here are telling you that is wrong, is because you assume it is all very easy to understand? (I do agree; however, that the Bible is easy to complicate - if their focus is on God however, there should be no problem).

What part of my religion is from things that are never in the Bible? All of my religion is 100% from the Bible. I would, however, agree that different denominations, Catholic for instance, take more liberties and stray from the Biblical text, but the fundamental beliefs and faith remain the same.

-Kevin

 

[alkemyst]

well when you understand and they that know are still telling you you don't, it's a bit different.

I still don't know why any authority on a subject cannot pick the top 10 points of it.

Please define what the HOLY BIBLE is. Please reference other major religions using parts of it.

I really think you are a troll on this that runs to the mods as a martyr though when you are confronted. When one doesn't answer your question, if you REALLY would like it answered; you should lead them on....you don't do this though and it's confusing. You do bring up you will PM a mod a lot though...

While I can donkey punch you with 'please explain what MAJOR CHRISTIAN holidays don't have 'PAGAN' roots all day long. In the end of it all that still doesn't mean a God or Gods don't exist.

I am really mixed bag on all of it. As a scientist I can say we are lucky to have sprung out. As a human I would like to believe it just wasn't random.

Looking at history though would show a ton of convolution.

 

[KeithTalent]

Why do people read the bible over and over, it's not even that great of a read and pretty damn slow in parts. There are some cool parts, but there is so much boring crap to wade through it's not worth reading more than once in my opinion.

KT

 

[alkemyst]

I think the bible is a great story. Like any long book you will have ups and downs.

To debate the book though is trolling. It's the best seller ever.

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I think the bible is a great story. Like any long book you will have ups and downs.

To debate the book though is trolling. It's the best seller ever.

Yeah, but a lot of people bought the Da Vinci Code too, so what do sales have to do with anything?

KT

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I think the bible is a great story. Like any long book you will have ups and downs.

To debate the book though is trolling. It's the best seller ever.

Yeah, but a lot of people bought the Da Vinci Code too, so what do sales have to do with anything?

KT

for someone trolling nothing.

How many 'great sellers' have kept up after a decade? Now let's talk 20 of those decades.

For you to question this shows you are really outside the debate.

It's like a 10 year old saying the Rolling Stones suck.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Psynaut
Haven't read it, but just guessing from what I have seen the preachers say on Sunday morning, I expect it goes something like this:

Hate gays
Hate abortions
Hate evolution
Hate non-believers
Hate the environment
Hate endagered species
Hate sex
Hate tolerance
Hate peace
Profess Love

You forgot Jesus was black, Obama is the second coming :roll:

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I think the bible is a great story. Like any long book you will have ups and downs.

To debate the book though is trolling. It's the best seller ever.

Yeah, but a lot of people bought the Da Vinci Code too, so what do sales have to do with anything?

KT

for someone trolling nothing.

How many 'great sellers' have kept up after a decade? Now let's talk 20 of those decades.

For you to question this shows you are really outside the debate.

It's like a 10 year old saying the Rolling Stones suck.

I never said the Bible sucked, it was an interesting read, I just don't understand why you would want to read it more than once.

KT

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Psynaut
Haven't read it, but just guessing from what I have seen the preachers say on Sunday morning, I expect it goes something like this:

Hate gays
Hate abortions
Hate evolution
Hate non-believers
Hate the environment
Hate endagered species
Hate sex
Hate tolerance
Hate peace
Profess Love

That is exactly it, you have summed up very accurately the entire Bible, good stuff.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
well when you understand and they that know are still telling you you don't, it's a bit different.

I still don't know why any authority on a subject cannot pick the top 10 points of it.

Please define what the HOLY BIBLE is. Please reference other major religions using parts of it.

I really think you are a troll on this that runs to the mods as a martyr though when you are confronted. When one doesn't answer your question, if you REALLY would like it answered; you should lead them on....you don't do this though and it's confusing. You do bring up you will PM a mod a lot though...

While I can donkey punch you with 'please explain what MAJOR CHRISTIAN holidays don't have 'PAGAN' roots all day long. In the end of it all that still doesn't mean a God or Gods don't exist.

I am really mixed bag on all of it. As a scientist I can say we are lucky to have sprung out. As a human I would like to believe it just wasn't random.

Looking at history though would show a ton of convolution.

Keep flaming Alk.... for your information; however, I haven't once gone to the moderators in a religious thread. Most of the time people are smart enough to hold a civil discussion.

While I can donkey punch you with 'please explain what MAJOR CHRISTIAN holidays don't have 'PAGAN' roots all day long. In the end of it all that still doesn't mean a God or Gods don't exist.

I have answered my take on this question every single time you ask me this. I'm sorry, but if you want to discuss it again, read my responses in the last post - If you have a problem with what I said there I would be more than happy to discuss it.

-Kevin