BFG 7800 GTX $47X and ATI X800 XTPE $229

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
If you are planning on keeping this card for any length of time the GTX would be you best bet. If you plan on keeping it for a month or two then the X800XTPE will be a good transition card, as it doesn't support a lot of the features the GTX does.

-Kevin

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I never said it wouldn't last more than 2 months. Hell, i know full well it will last many years.

I'm confused. First you said he should purchase it only if he plans on keeping it a month or two, and now you say it will last many years.

Which is it?

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Drayvn
SM3 is only one feature, but under that feature there are a few more sub features, like HDR, soft shadows, parallax mapping, displacement mapping.

Actually, none of those features are exclusive to SM3, though certian programs do require SM3 hardware to use those features.

 

[Gamingphreek]

I said a month or two/use as a transition card is ideal since the X800's are faster (in raw speed) than the 6 series. However, in the long run, i would think that you would want to sacrifice a few frames per second in order to be able to use some of the more advanced features.

Obviously the card will last years, however, do you want what it offers (feature-wise in addition to performance wise) for the next few years?

Temporal AA. Yes, that is a feature I forgot to mention.

Yeah because in a year or even more all of your games are still going to run at above 60fps, and you are going to be using VSYNC... give me a break. Another reason why the X800's are excellent for the short term.

I've always been a "best bang for the buck" kinda guy instead of "must have the best of everything". And I get ridiculed by some members for this. But I'd rather get the most enjoyment per dollar spent than simply dumping loads of money to always have the latest/greatest. That means finding a high performance component (CPU, video card, etc) at a low price. And to me, this X800XT PE deal fits the bill perfectly.

The XTPE is an awesome card, no doubt. However, NO OFFENSE, but i dont like that purchase. You can tell me that you, in the next 2 years, will not care when all the games begin to require 32bit FP support, SM3 (or in SC's case it rolls back to 1.1). And you are also telling me that you will never think twice about not supporting soft shadows? (Need i go on). Like i said, in raw speed the X800's take the cake against the 6 series, however, in the long run they are not a very wise buy.

Additionally, you guys are hammering me for and calling me a fanboy. I NEVER once said that the X800's were bad cards, and i fully supported my point of view. If you think that in every post i am going to take the time to type out another explanation paragraph that says that the X800's are good and that praises their features... you are sadly mistaken. Not directed at all of you, but think for yourself and get some common sense here, i know most of you are very well educated to be posting in this forum.

-Kevin

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Drayvn
SM3 is only one feature, but under that feature there are a few more sub features, like HDR, soft shadows, parallax mapping, displacement mapping.

Actually, none of those features are exclusive to SM3, though certian programs do require SM3 hardware to use those features.

I think Displacement Mapping falls under SM3... however i am not sure if parallax mapping falls under it as well.

HDR has nothing to do with SM3.

-Kevin

 

[fstime]

However, it simply doesn't have a lot of the features that the 6 and 7 series have.

Since these features mean so much to you, all I can say is, enjoy no AA/AF.

You are saying that there are 3 games out right now.
#1. Wrong there are more

ROFL, Okay Kevin, FIVE games, including Lego, damn I love that one.

#2. Are you telling me that, in the next 2 years we are still going to have only a mere few games out... give me a break.

Until I see those games, I could care less.

The theory around here is, SM2 sucks, SM3 will give you 100% more performance, the feature is overated, period.

I am no more a fanboy than anyone else on these forums. If you stop and read what I said, then you will see what i was talking about.

Never called you a fanboy, that was someone else.

Take your own advice.

Stop trying to catch me in a false statement

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Drayvn
SM3 is only one feature, but under that feature there are a few more sub features, like HDR, soft shadows, parallax mapping, displacement mapping.

Actually, none of those features are exclusive to SM3, though certian programs do require SM3 hardware to use those features.

Could have read a bit further down my post and i would have said all that...

 

[Gamingphreek]

Since these features mean so much to you, all I can say is, enjoy no AA/AF.

That side effect is not inherent in all of those features, it is merely a flaw in the implementation (ie Open EXR HDR). THere are other implementations.

Until I see those games, I could care less.

Im sure youll be saying that a year down the road when a vast amount of games supports those features.

The theory around here is, SM2 sucks, SM3 will give you 100% more performance, the feature is overated, period.

I never said that, nor will you ever hear me say that. SM3 is the successor to SM2, therefore it is better than the previous. I never said that SM2 sucked. Also, please provide one quote as to where someone (with more than 20 posts, ie a credible person) said this and supported this "theory".

Never called you a fanboy, that was someone else.

Take your own advice.

I never said you did call me a fanboy. I responding to Todd33.

-Kevin

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Drayvn
SM3 is only one feature, but under that feature there are a few more sub features, like HDR, soft shadows, parallax mapping, displacement mapping.

Actually, none of those features are exclusive to SM3, though certian programs do require SM3 hardware to use those features.

I think Displacement Mapping falls under SM3... however i am not sure if parallax mapping falls under it as well.

HDR has nothing to do with SM3.

-Kevin

Hmm i didnt think displacement mapping fell under SM3. I just thought it was a specification of DX9.0c.

Hmm thinking about it i might have head that it does go with SM3 but i cant be certain.

Too late now to trawl through the web and check, if you find out first post it up, ill check tomoro mornin.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Drayvn
SM3 is only one feature, but under that feature there are a few more sub features, like HDR, soft shadows, parallax mapping, displacement mapping.

Actually, none of those features are exclusive to SM3, though certian programs do require SM3 hardware to use those features.

I think Displacement Mapping falls under SM3... however i am not sure if parallax mapping falls under it as well.

HDR has nothing to do with SM3.

-Kevin

Hmm i didnt think displacement mapping fell under SM3. I just thought it was a specification of DX9.0c.

Hmm thinking about it i might have head that it does go with SM3 but i cant be certain.

Too late now to trawl through the web and check, if you find out first post it up, ill check tomoro mornin.

Now that you mention it, i believe you are right. I believe it falls under 9.0C, not SM3. Sorry about that 🙂

-Kevin

 

[kylebisme]

As for Parallax mapping, it can be done with SM2.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
The XTPE is an awesome card, no doubt. However, NO OFFENSE, but i dont like that purchase. You can tell me that you, in the next 2 years, will not care when all the games begin to require 32bit FP support, SM3 (or in SC's case it rolls back to 1.1). And you are also telling me that you will never think twice about not supporting soft shadows? (Need i go on). Like i said, in raw speed the X800's take the cake against the 6 series, however, in the long run they are not a very wise buy.

-Kevin

I'm sorry, but simply not having "soft shadows" is not a deal breaker for me. Half-Life 2 won over 40 "Game of the Year" awards without it and I think the game looks fantastic. "Soft shadows" is simply one of hundreds of various visual effects used in todays games.

How do you know for sure that "in the next 2 years" "all the games begin to require 32bit FP support, SM3 (or in SC's case it rolls back to 1.1)"? That's simply guesswork. Obviously SOME games will be SM3/SM1.1, but I bet they'll be in the minority. There is an extremely large installed base of SM2.0 hardware out there to appeal to.

Half-Life 2 won a LOT of praise not only for the gameplay/graphics, but also the fact that it would run well on even older hardware. Developers will be slitting their own throats by coding games so that only those who own the latest hardware can play them.

And in the long run, this is a very GOOD buy. Let's say I decide to sell it in one year to buy a different card. Who do you think will get most of his money back? Me, who buys the X800XT PE for $229 or the other guy who pays $475 for a 7800GTX?

 

[ponyo]

Poor buy in the long run is 7800gtx at $475. Not x800xt PE at $229. No card is future proof. Both cards play pretty much all the games out at great framerates and high eyecandy. SM3 is nonissue right now.

Only the dumb ones pay high extra to try to futureproof videocard. Videocard refreshes too often to futureproof.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
The XTPE is an awesome card, no doubt. However, NO OFFENSE, but i dont like that purchase. You can tell me that you, in the next 2 years, will not care when all the games begin to require 32bit FP support, SM3 (or in SC's case it rolls back to 1.1). And you are also telling me that you will never think twice about not supporting soft shadows? (Need i go on). Like i said, in raw speed the X800's take the cake against the 6 series, however, in the long run they are not a very wise buy.

-Kevin

I'm sorry, but simply not having "soft shadows" is not a deal breaker for me. Half-Life 2 won over 40 "Game of the Year" awards without it and I think the game looks fantastic. "Soft shadows" is simply one of hundreds of various visual effects used in todays games.

How do you know for sure that "in the next 2 years" "all the games begin to require 32bit FP support, SM3 (or in SC's case it rolls back to 1.1)"? That's simply guesswork. Obviously SOME games will be SM3/SM1.1, but I bet they'll be in the minority. There is an extremely large installed base of SM2.0 hardware out there to appeal to.

Half-Life 2 won a LOT of praise not only for the gameplay/graphics, but also the fact that it would run well on even older hardware. Developers will be slitting their own throats by coding games so that only those who own the latest hardware can play them.

And in the long run, this is a very GOOD buy. Let's say I decide to sell it in one year to buy a different card. Who do you think will get most of his money back? Me, who buys the X800XT PE for $229 or the other guy who pays $475 for a 7800GTX?

I merely used Soft Shadows as an example. I will bet anything that in the next AT LEAST year (if not half) a vast amount of games will support SM3. Within 2 years (WITHIN) a vast majority of games will offer support for all of those features. As for 32bit FP support, IIRC the new WGF standard is supposed to require that, additionally, it is required for certain features to work (ie: OpenEXR HDR).

It is not a very good buy in the long run. 1 Year is not "the long run"...what happened to 2 years or more. In the long run a 6 series or a GT will last much longer than the X800's. While the X800's have the raw speed, they do not have the features... albeit some if not most will not be required. I dont know about you, but down the road, if a game supports some VERY nice features i would like to run it. If you dont care about that, why dont you pick up a Geforce 2. It has plenty of speed, and any game will run on it just fine if you turn off all FrameBuffer effects, Pixel, and Vertex Shading.

Additionally, my example about all games requiring those features was clearly hypothetical. You cannot honestly twist my words enough to make it seem as if i were telling the truth.

You say there is a large base of SM2 games. Well, yeah! But in 2 years there is definitely something wrong with you if you continue to replay all of our current games. Are you not going to buy any more games now, and just be satisfied with the "large base of SM2 games".

Im sure no developer will require these features, however you cannot expect them to support every single shader model. I would think that most developers will set their game up like SC:CT.

Come on Creig, yeah you got an Awesome deal on an Awesome video card, but seriously how can you try to convince anyone that the X800's are just as good in the long run (feature wise) as the 6 series and the 7 series (Well at least the one card out right now).

-Kevin

 

[ZimZum]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
If you are planning on keeping this card for any length of time the GTX would be you best bet. If you plan on keeping it for a month or two then the X800XTPE will be a good transition card, as it doesn't support a lot of the features the GTX does.

-Kevin

LOL, fanboy.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: ZimZum

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
If you are planning on keeping this card for any length of time the GTX would be you best bet. If you plan on keeping it for a month or two then the X800XTPE will be a good transition card, as it doesn't support a lot of the features the GTX does.

-Kevin

LOL, fanboy.

If you are going to troll and throw out empty threats, why dont you back up your statement. Also, reading my previous statements, and responses might enlighten you a bit.

Stupid troll :roll:... they never learn.

-Kevin

 

[fstime]

No need to get mad now.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Come on Creig, yeah you got an Awesome deal on an Awesome video card, but seriously how can you try to convince anyone that the X800's are just as good in the long run (feature wise) as the 6 series and the 7 series (Well at least the one card out right now).

-Kevin

Please point out where I said that the X800 is just as good "feature wise" as the 6-7 series GeForces. You can't. Because I didn't.

What I DID say is "bang for the buck". I believe I also mentioned resale value versus purchase price.

If missing out on "soft shadows" and a few other visual effects means I get the third fastest video card available at less than half the price of the top of the line card, then so be it.

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
In the long run a 6 series or a GT will last much longer than the X800's.

Somehow I doubt a 6600/6600GT is going to outlast an X800XT PE. And I don't think it'd be going too far out on a limb to say it will either keep pace with or even surpass the useable gaming lifespan of a 6800GT due to its processing power.

 

[Avalon]

It is not a very good buy in the long run. 1 Year is not "the long run"...what happened to 2 years or more. In the long run a 6 series or a GT will last much longer than the X800's. While the X800's have the raw speed, they do not have the features... albeit some if not most will not be required. I dont know about you, but down the road, if a game supports some VERY nice features i would like to run it. If you dont care about that, why dont you pick up a Geforce 2. It has plenty of speed, and any game will run on it just fine if you turn off all FrameBuffer effects, Pixel, and Vertex Shading.

Kevin, I don't mean to argue, but I feel somewhat against this stance. I do not think a 6 series will last much longer than an x800 series in the long run. We may as well define the long run as about 3 years. Both lines of cards should piddle out about the same. Within the next year, we probably won't have more than 10 titles supporting SM3.0, and this is only supporting. As far as requiring, a Ti4200 can run any game out there today, albeit at lower resolutions, and still look very good. This card is over three years old, or close to that, yes? The DX9.0 standard was introduced almost 3 years ago as well, wasn't it? I may be a little off. However, if a 4200 can still run everything out today, then to this day DX9.0 is still not REQUIRED to play a game. It can be then safely assumed that three years from now, sub DX9.0C cards will be able to run 99% of all games out there (assuming they aren't budget cards and held adequate power in their generation).

Will the x800 be able to run newly released features? No.
If it could, would it be able to run them adequately? No, not on a three year old piece of hardware, even if natively supported.

Hey, I could be wrong, but this just seems reasonable to me. By that point, there shouldn't be much difference.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
TAA is nothing more than a gimmick and hardly even worth mentioning.

TAA is no gimmick.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Creig


Half-Life 2 won a LOT of praise not only for the gameplay/graphics, but also the fact that it would run well on even older hardware. Developers will be slitting their own throats by coding games so that only those who own the latest hardware can play them.

Exactly!!!! Exactly, and perfectly said. Everyone screams that the 6800's will not be able to handle future SM3.0 titles. But wouldn't developers be slitting their own throats by coding games soo that only those who own the latest hareware can play them. Perfectly said.

And in the long run, this is a very GOOD buy. Let's say I decide to sell it in one year to buy a different card. Who do you think will get most of his money back? Me, who buys the X800XT PE for $229 or the other guy who pays $475 for a 7800GTX?

Yes, you will get most of your cash back buying a refurbed X800XTPE for so cheap when they are going new for 350+ new. It's always a bargain to buy used. Kind of like its always smarter to buy a used car than an new car from an economical standpoint.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Somehow I doubt a 6600/6600GT is going to outlast an X800XT PE

You know full well that i meant a 6800 or greater... come on use some common sense here.

As far as requiring, a Ti4200 can run any game out there today, albeit at lower resolutions, and still look very good.

Which is what i have been saying the entire time. If you are fine playing the games with almost all of the quality settings turned off go for it. The 6800's and up have support for those features and are only a few frames per second slower than the X800's. Therefore, in the long run, a 6800 and up will last longer than an X800 series card because of the support for these features, unless of course you are fine playing the games of tomorrow looking like the games of today.

TAA is no gimmick.

Temporal AA is a gimmick. It is very useful in older titles and some titles today. However, if people think that the X800's are going to be pulling 60fps constantly, with VSYNC on in the next years, they are sadly mistaken... AND NO im not saying a Geforce will do any better in that respect.

-Kevin

 

[deadseasquirrel]

Originally posted by: Avalon
this is only supporting. As far as requiring, a Ti4200 can run any game out there today, albeit at lower resolutions, and still look very good. This card is over three years old, or close to that, yes? The DX9.0 standard was introduced almost 3 years ago as well, wasn't it? I may be a little off. However, if a 4200 can still run everything out today, then to this day DX9.0 is still not REQUIRED to play a game.

BF2 will not run on a 4200. I hope to hell that it doesn't become a trend cuz I really don't feel like upgrading rig #3 (1.4ghz Tualatin, 512MB ram, ti4200).

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Somehow I doubt a 6600/6600GT is going to outlast an X800XT PE

You know full well that i meant a 6800 or greater... come on use some common sense here.

Well then say exactly what you mean and don't generalize. Then there can be no confusion.

 

[jimipal56]

Well im planning to buy new AGP card for my old Dell DImention 4550 and it has only AGP slot and i want to know it it'll run on my system or not?

 

[Avalon]

Which is what i have been saying the entire time. If you are fine playing the games with almost all of the quality settings turned off go for it. The 6800's and up have support for those features and are only a few frames per second slower than the X800's. Therefore, in the long run, a 6800 and up will last longer than an X800 series card because of the support for these features, unless of course you are fine playing the games of tomorrow looking like the games of today.

But three years from now you'll have to turn off those "quality" settings anyway on your 6 series card, because it will be too slow to run with them on. I place the word quality in quotations, because I do not consider them such. I consider them add-on effects that do not significantly impact the overall quality of the game, they merely just add a touch of something nice. Games run on the Ti4200 look just as nice as games run on a 6 series, minus the special effects such as DX9.0 water, soft shadows, and high def lighting.

Thus why I argue that a 6 series will last the exact same as an X800 series.

BF2 will not run on a 4200. I hope to hell that it doesn't become a trend cuz I really don't feel like upgrading rig #3 (1.4ghz Tualatin, 512MB ram, ti4200).

That's unfortunate. Still, it's taken 3 years for a title to come out that finally requires the DX9 spec to run. If you're looking for a cheap upgrade, there are brand new system pull Radeon 9500s on eBay that run for about $45 shipped. They're 256bit models, so they are softmoddable to 9700s, and I've had great luck with them. If you've got a bit of cash floating in your wallet, give one of those a look. You can't find better bang at that price.