BFBC2 vs BF3?

[Bryf50]

My one prolem with BF3 that I can't really figure out is I'm just terrible at anything but vehicle combat. I lose gunfights way too often. I've always been pretty decent in FPSs and had no problem holding my own in BC2. I wonder if its input lag or sometimes lowish framerate that's screwing me.

 

[Northern Lawn]

My one prolem with BF3 that I can't really figure out is I'm just terrible at anything but vehicle combat. I lose gunfights way too often. I've always been pretty decent in FPSs and had no problem holding my own in BC2. I wonder if its input lag or sometimes lowish framerate that's screwing me.

There was an article about this guy who bought a hack to catch other hackers. He said he could tell because there aim would go from 0% to 100% on him instantly while poor players, their aim would go up and down etc. He said most hackers hid it as best they could and not getting the obvious 64-1 runs. He actually said he found multiple hackers on almost all 64 man servers.

 

[Veliko]

Most of the maps in the game were made to cater to call of duty players. BF3 is a POS compared to even BC2 and doesn't deserve the title of a BF2 sequel.

Is "Call of Duty clone" a new meme that I have missed out on?

It seems to be the default fall back position for someone who doesn't like something, and wants to make themselves look more intelligent than anyone who doesn't agree with them.

You even get people saying it about Diablo 3 for God's sake.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

Is "Call of Duty clone" a new meme that I have missed out on?

"CoD" has become synonymous with "shit" amongst most vet gamers, it's used as way to put down games which have strayed towards the casual appeal and aren't very good.

It has nothing to do with intelligence it's entirely to do with perspective and experience, you'll only "get it" if you've been gaming on the PC for a while and remember back when games used to be good.

 

[Sulaco]

Is "Call of Duty clone" a new meme that I have missed out on?

It seems to be the default fall back position for someone who doesn't like something, and wants to make themselves look more intelligent than anyone who doesn't agree with them.

You even get people saying it about Diablo 3 for God's sake.

It's used to denote a generic, regurgitated, decent but entirely unoriginal game, usually aimed at the least interested, casual gamer segment.

Whether you feel "CoD" is that way or not, that's an entirely different discussion, but that's the reference for most folks.

 

[Veliko]

"CoD" has become synonymous with "shit" amongst most vet gamers, it's used as way to put down games which have strayed towards the casual appeal and aren't very good.

It has nothing to do with intelligence it's entirely to do with perspective and experience, you'll only "get it" if you've been gaming on the PC for a while and remember back when games used to be good.

To be honest, it sounds like it's just used by a small minority of self-certified experts who don't quite understand what it is that they are saying. They use it as a kind of badge, to show that they are part of the exclusive club that hates anything released in the last five years or so.

As for your 'when games used to be good' comment...

1) When was this?
2) Why are you still playing games if they aren't good?

 

[PrincessFrosty]

To be honest, it sounds like it's just used by a small minority of self-certified experts who don't quite understand what it is that they are saying. They use it as a kind of badge, to show that they are part of the exclusive club that hates anything released in the last five years or so.

As for your 'when games used to be good' comment...

1) When was this?
2) Why are you still playing games if they aren't good?

Nothing to do with being self certified, either you happen to have that perspective to realise how games like CoD are dumbed down for the casual crowd, or you don't. There is a very large influx of new casual gamers which put vets into a minority, being in the minority doesn't make the observation and less valid however.

It's not a club and certainly not exclusive, I don't hate everything released in the last 5 years, but there is a strong trend to cater for casual gamers and the number of non-casual games are dwindling.

1) The percentage of good games have steadily declined over the last few generations of consoles, as gaming boomed and became mainstream the casual market grew to dominance and that's guided game design down the casual route for many years now.
2) There are still some good games released today, some are casual but playable, the indy scene is starting to boom as well, but mostly I go back and play older games before the norm was chest high walls, cover based shooting and FOVs so small you feel like you have a pair of binoculars permanently glued to your face.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I don't understand the hatred towards games geared towards casual gamers. From a business perspective, it's the obvious choice, since giving your games broader appeal guarantees a larger base for sales and generates more money. Granted, a business decision isn't a compelling reason for most of us, since it does lead to series like Call of Duty and Tony Hawk. But there's another reason that casual gaming is flourishing.

I'm a longtime gamer. But I'm finding that I have less and less time to play games as other responsibilities get in the way; I can't devote 40 hours a week to gaming like a could when I was young. If I can only play games a couple hours a week, I don't want to spend it dead and irritated because it takes 3 months to get enough gear or learn how to play effectively. That's a growing concern for gamers who grew up in the 70s, 80s and 90s who are now grown-ass men and can't be bothered to spend every waking hour dedicated to a videogame. I mean, yeah, I get why you want games to be more in-depth and not ridiculously stupid (like Call of Duty), but I appreciate a game I can hop in and play without feeling like I have to dedicate the next few hours to it to garner any enjoyment. I certainly don't understand the elitism towards "casual gamers," words that are typed as though you're saying them through gritted teeth while seething at the audacity that anyone would dare call themselves a gamer while not devoting the bulk of their life to the hobby.

The Modern Warfare games haven't been bad because they're geared towards "casual gamers," they're bad because the stories seem like they were written by a 13-year-old who beats off to 24, they try to go bigger than the last outing to the point where I'm fairly sure the next Modern Warfare game will take place on the Moon after Earth is destroyed by the simultaneous detonation of every nuclear bomb, power plant and volcano, and compelling gameplay is replaced by stationary gun sections where your goal is to rack up bodies in a first person rendition of Space Invaders. A game doesn't have to be trite and boring to appeal to casual gamers, it just needs to be easy to jump into, and sometimes that's all any of us really wants.

 

[Veliko]

Nothing to do with being self certified, either you happen to have that perspective to realise how games like CoD are dumbed down for the casual crowd, or you don't. There is a very large influx of new casual gamers which put vets into a minority, being in the minority doesn't make the observation and less valid however.

How is CoD any more dumbed down than something like Doom? Or Quake? Or Unreal? Or Diablo?

It's not a club and certainly not exclusive, I don't hate everything released in the last 5 years, but there is a strong trend to cater for casual gamers and the number of non-casual games are dwindling.

1) The percentage of good games have steadily declined over the last few generations of consoles, as gaming boomed and became mainstream the casual market grew to dominance and that's guided game design down the casual route for many years now.
2) There are still some good games released today, some are casual but playable, the indy scene is starting to boom as well, but mostly I go back and play older games before the norm was chest high walls, cover based shooting and FOVs so small you feel like you have a pair of binoculars permanently glued to your face.

Why does the percentage of games that you like matter? There are only ever a certain amount of games you will play anyway, so why do the rest matter?

If there are 10 games in one year that you like, why does it matter if there are 10, 20, 50, etc. that you don't?

 

[exdeath]

I don't understand the hatred towards games geared towards casual gamers.

Because it's not at simple as just not playing those games. The money those games make come at the detriment of every other game and genre, THAT is the crux of the issue plain in simple.

Even if you don't care for, don't buy, and don't play Call of Duty, the games you were once interested in shift to the nickel and dime lowest common denominator cookie cutter million seller cut and paste Call of Duty formula. You can't ignore it, it's a plague infecting the whole industry, not just a handful of games. The business practice that does this is entirely enabled by the drooling masses opening their wallets en masse for their quick fix from these shitty games every month, which means *our* market isn't worth making games for anymore, which is why we hate them so much.

I'll never experience a masterpiece like Final Fantasy VI ever again thanks to being outnumbered by casuals too young to legally own a real gun drooling over "kool new gunz an teh acheevmints" every 3 months. The makers of these games were once proud of making some of the best games in history. Now all that matters is selling a million copies of everything the first day while spending as little as possible (eg: copy/pasting previous assets).

Like RPGs? Too bad, they are all restricted to tunnels and single button mashing battles now. (see: CoD, FF XIII)

Like survival horror? Too bad, they are all on rails shoot em ups and shooting galleries now. (see: CoD, RE5)

Want a platformer or adventure game? I dare you to find one that doesn't have an M4 or dog tags in it somewhere. (see: CoD, etc)

 

[Veliko]

Because it's not at simple as just not playing those games. The money those games make come at the detriment of every other game and genre, THAT is the crux of the issue plain in simple.

Even if you don't care for, don't buy, and don't play Call of Duty, the games you were once interested in shift to the nickel and dime lowest common denominator cookie cutter million seller cut and paste Call of Duty formula. You can't ignore it, it's a plague infecting the whole industry, not just a handful of games. The business practice that does this is entirely enabled by the drooling masses opening their wallets en masse for their quick fix from these shitty games every month, which means *our* market isn't worth making games for anymore, which is why we hate them so much.

I'll never experience a masterpiece like Final Fantasy VI ever again thanks to being outnumbered by casuals too young to legally own a real gun drooling over "kool new gunz an teh acheevmints" every 3 months. The makers of these games were once proud of making some of the best games in history. Now all that matters is selling a million copies of everything the first day while spending as little as possible (eg: copy/pasting previous assets).

Like RPGs? Too bad, they are all restricted to tunnels and single button mashing battles now. (see: CoD, FF XIII)

Like survival horror? Too bad, they are all on rails shoot em ups and shooting galleries now. (see: CoD, RE5)

Want a platformer or adventure game? I dare you to find one that doesn't have an M4 or dog tags in it somewhere. (see: CoD, etc)

What an embarrassingly stupid post.

 

[exdeath]

What an embarrassingly stupid post.

Yes it is. So why did you post?

 

[jr521960kr]

love both.

 

[Don Karnage]

You're kidding.


Here is a ranking of the maps in the Game

Unplayable
All the CQC maps - Call of Duty Clone
Operation Metro - Call of Duty Clone
Damavand Peak - Terrible Map. Call of Duty Clone. What kind of idiot actually thinks that a meatgrinder in a single tunnel is actually fun.
Grand Bazaar- Shipyard with a different name
Seine Crossing - COD Clone
Tehran Highway - Bad map overall

Caspian Border- Was promised one of the largest maps in BF history. What we got was a massive empty space of nothing with all the points in the middle 100 meters away from each other.

Wake Island - Too busy for its own good.

Somewhat Playable
Kharg Island- At least attempted to be half decent at map design.

Noshar Canal- Decent Map design.

Operation Firestorm - Only somewhat playable.

Decent
Strike at Karkand, Gulf of Oman- Decent only because they copied BF2 , but proceeded to rip out many core parts of the map.

Most of the maps in the game were made to cater to call of duty players. BF3 is a POS compared to even BC2 and doesn't deserve the title of a BF2 sequel.

Wow couldn't agree more. BF3 is a good game but its just not as good as BC2. I'm hoping BC3 is amazing and dice doesnt screw it up.

I still remember when the Beta to BC2 came out and i was blown away. It was like nothing i had ever seen or played before. It was so beautiful. When the Alpha to BF3 came out i was like Meh

 

[Rinaun]

Wow couldn't agree more. BF3 is a good game but its just not as good as BC2. I'm hoping BC3 is amazing and dice doesnt screw it up.

I still remember when the Beta to BC2 came out and i was blown away. It was like nothing i had ever seen or played before. It was so beautiful. When the Alpha to BF3 came out i was like Meh

I think anyone who says BF3 at the amount it sold is a unpopular/failure game is just butthurt. However, compared to the amazing things BC2 brought to the franchise almost everyone in my known circle dislikes battlefield 3. The only people I know who still enjoy it are my xbox360/PS3 friends and that's really what the game is aimed for. Everyone else has DRASTICALLY stopped playing since release. I think for most of my friends the first patch was just a slap in the face from dice and some even uninstalled the game.

My personal reason I dislike BF3 (aside from the above listed) is that when BF3 came out, BC2:V took a huge dive and now its fairly hard to get games going in there. If you've EVER played BC2 or BC2:V the first thing you will notice is how many buildings you can go into. Compared to bf3 its just saddening. If I had the chance I'd be playing BC2 over BF3 any day.

 

[OptimumSlinky]

How is CoD any more dumbed down than something like Doom? Or Quake? Or Unreal? Or Diablo?

Go back and play Doom or Doom 2. Tell me how many "FOLLOW THIS GUY" or "GO THIS WAY" icons there are in the game.

In old-school FPS games, the exploration was half of the experience. Now, the entire experience is jerking off big explosions, motion blur, lens flare and first-person quick-time events.

 

[Capt Caveman]

You're kidding.


Here is a ranking of the maps in the Game

Unplayable
Caspian Border- Was promised one of the largest maps in BF history. What we got was a massive empty space of nothing with all the points in the middle 100 meters away from each other.

Not sure if serious. A couple of flags are close to one another but some are further away from each other than any map in BF2 or BC2.

BC2 conquest maps are small jokes. Rush is better.

BF2 > BF3 > BC2

 

[exdeath]

Go back and play Doom or Doom 2. Tell me how many "FOLLOW THIS GUY" or "GO THIS WAY" icons there are in the game.

In old-school FPS games, the exploration was half of the experience. Now, the entire experience is jerking off big explosions, motion blur, lens flare and first-person quick-time events.

LOL pretty much.

 

[JamesV]

BF3 vs BF2 is pretty similar to the Diablo 3 vs Diablo 2 arguments. Neither BF3 nor Diablo 3 are a true sequel, they are both re-imaginings of the IP; fixing things that are not broke.

It really gets me angry when some dev tells me the things I loved about a game were broken and needed to be fixed, like my feeling about the matter are simply wrong (and the multitudes that made those 'broken' games famous).

What we end up, with is a game with the name of one of our favorite games, but not the gameplay. BF3 isn't a bad game; it truly is astounding from a technical standpoint, but it doesn't feel like Battlefield, and certainly doesn't have the fun that made me put thousands of hours into it's predecessors.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Not sure if serious. A couple of flags are close to one another but some are further away from each other than any map in BF2 or BC2.

BC2 conquest maps are small jokes. Rush is better.

BF2 > BF3 > BC2

No. You're wrong. Every single point is within walking distance of each other.

It's a travesty to Battlefield.

 

[Veliko]

Go back and play Doom or Doom 2. Tell me how many "FOLLOW THIS GUY" or "GO THIS WAY" icons there are in the game.

In old-school FPS games, the exploration was half of the experience. Now, the entire experience is jerking off big explosions, motion blur, lens flare and first-person quick-time events.

Wait, wait.

Are you actually trying to infer that the likes of Doom and Doom 2 are intellectually superior to the likes of MW3...?

This re-imagining of the past that some people do is absurd.

 

[Capt Caveman]

No. You're wrong. Every single point is within walking distance of each other.

It's a travesty to Battlefield.

Yeah, if you want to walk for five minutes. What's a bigger BF2 or BC2 map?

 

[beginner99]

Go back and play Doom or Doom 2. Tell me how many "FOLLOW THIS GUY" or "GO THIS WAY" icons there are in the game.

In old-school FPS games, the exploration was half of the experience. Now, the entire experience is jerking off big explosions, motion blur, lens flare and first-person quick-time events.

Some people need to use their brain at work and like to relax at home.

I just wanna shot stuff without solving some ridiculous puzzles. But for those who like "talking" to fictional characters, get Stalker. Didn't really like that series also because if the infamous stuttering issues.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Yeah, if you want to walk for five minutes. What's a bigger BF2 or BC2 map?

That's where teamworks goes in. You don't want to walk? How about you stay with a squad, keep your squad leader alive, and keep spawning on him instead of walking. None of this casual spawn on anybody crap that leads to ridiculously stupid firefights.

And possibly capture key points that have transport vehicles instead going around capturing random stuff.

This is the teamwork that Battlefield 3 has. There is no teamwork, there is no NEED for teamwork, because its so easy to do everything. Its the very definition of a casualized game. You don't have to play WELL.

 

[BD2003]

I liked just about everything better about BC2. BF just doesn't handle urban combat very well IMO. Something about the BF engine has never, ever felt right in CQC, as far back as BF1942.

BF3 was indeed too CODified...and this is coming from someone who absolutely loves COD. BC1 and 2 etched out a great niche, putting BFs best foot forward. They need to go back to that.