Better speakers right for me?

[clicknext]

Hello, everyone. =P

I've been thinking about getting new speakers for a while now. The main reason is that my current Cambridge Soundworks FPS1000 set just sounds kinda weak and crackly.

But my concern about buying a new speaker set that costs as much as any next gen console system is whether I really need it or not. I never turn my speakers up to booming levels because other people in this house would complain. I can't turn it up to the point that someone can hear them from 2 rooms away. So I what I wanna know is, do I really need these? Can these things really sound immersive and powerful without the volume turned up very high? Is it worth buying?

Oh by the way, sorry, I forgot to mention that I was planning on the Z-560s. But the Z-540s also look quite attractive because they're less than half the price where I can get them. Which one, do you think?

 

[Rick014]

I've got the z-560's and love them.
Cristal clear at any volume. If you've got a good sound card it makes all the difference as you can taylor the sound the way you want it at the volume you're comfortable with.

 

[clicknext]

Thanks for the reply! I've got an SBLive5.1. Good enough, I assume?

Anyone else?

 

[CommanderHunt]

I have Logitech Z-340's and they are awesome. What more can you ask for? Extremely inexpensive, excellent sound, subwoofer... Yoou can't go wrong.

 

[clicknext]

I'm looking for 4.1 or 5.1 speakers.

Thanks anyway though.

 

[Piano Man]

I would definately go with a 5.1 setup. Especially now with people like John Carmack stressing the importance of making that an audio standard, I would do it to be safe. So with that in mind, it really comes down to a couple of systems. You can go Klipsch or go Cambridge. I know that the Soundworks you have now aren't cutting it, but the new MegaWorks 510D's are excellent speakers. So are the Klipschs, although I don't think they are as musical, and definately more expensive than the 510D's. Then again, the 510's don't have a headphone jack, so that can be a pain in the ass. Also, I don't know how much you like the SBLive, or what you do as far as gaming and listening to music, but if you are serious about audio, I'd look for another soundcard. YOu can go inexpensive and get the TB Santa Cruz. Its a great card for the $$. Or you can go higher end such as MidiMan or Terratec.

 

[clicknext]

The Klipsch system isn't something I can afford, and I can't find the 510D's anywhere locally.

I've heard from reviews that the Z560's are on par with the promedia4.1's, and I can get these babies for $240 Canadian, which would be able $170 US, I think. Right now I think these are my best option.

For the sound card, I thought the SBLive was better than the Santa Cruz... but in any case, I would like to avoid spending more money to get a new sound card.

Thanks

 

[CommanderHunt]

o.0 Sorry about that man, didn't realize you were looking for high end speakers

 

[clicknext]

Hehe, no prob there.

I wanna ask another question though. Is Digital really worth the money over analog? And is 400W really worth the money over 40W, when I'm only listening at low-medium volumes?

 

[clicknext]

BUMP?

 

[Rick014]

"the Z560's are on par with the promedia4.1's, and I can get these babies for $240 Canadian"
I'm Canadian as well. I saw the z-560's in Costco for 200. If you know someone with a costco card, it's worth picking them up there.
Or you might be able to wrangle a day pass out of them, if you do, bring cash.

 

[clicknext]

Heeey... that sounds like an attractive deal... thanks.

 

[murphy55d]

I was in your same situation awhile back, I had the 560s on order from Dell, they eventually cancelled, and I realized I didn't even need that much power. Like you, I don't jack my speakers up all the way anyway, so I saved myself about $100 at the time and bought Z-540's, which sound very nice, especially for the price. I am extremely satisfied with them.

 

[IgoByte]

I love my Klipsch 5.1 speakers.

 

[clicknext]

Originally posted by: murphy55d
I was in your same situation awhile back, I had the 560s on order from Dell, they eventually cancelled, and I realized I didn't even need that much power. Like you, I don't jack my speakers up all the way anyway, so I saved myself about $100 at the time and bought Z-540's, which sound very nice, especially for the price. I am extremely satisfied with them.

Cool, thanks. I think I'm leaning towards the 540s now. But can anyone answer my question? What's the difference between digital and analog? And does 400w really make much of a difference over 40w at lower volumes?

 

[RanDum72]

I would personally get either a Logitech Z-560 or the Altec Lansing 641's. Both can be bought for around $150-160 shipped online. Both can play really loud. Although you may not need that much volume, they can still be played at lower volumes but at lower distortion compared to speakers with a lower power rating. Also, the speaker drivers are of much higher quality and could therefore reproduce sound more accurately (and again with lower distortion).
Another alternative is the Yamaha TSS-1. Although its power rating is lower, its much more versatile in terms of connectivity. It has a mini receiver with built-in amp, Coax and optical digital inputs ( can decode Dolby Digital, DTS and pro-logic), 4 speaker inputs. Its at $130 over at Amazon.com but with $30 rebate, it comes down to only $99.
Link.

 

[xpr8]

Get the Logitechs, they are great.

 

[tronester1]

Cool, thanks. I think I'm leaning towards the 540s now. But can anyone answer my question? What's the difference between digital and analog? And does 400w really make much of a difference over 40w at lower volumes?

What are you refering to? Digital means the audio signal is represented in bits rather than an analog waveform. TECHNICALLY, digital is less accurate than analog, but most digital formats such as redbook cd audio or mp3 compression over 256kbits are inaudible.

As for the power issue, neither 400w or 40w is an accurate indication of the power output of the amplifier on those speakers. No computer speaker can have that kind of true continuous output. Don't be concerned with the power rating at all, it is just marketing BS. If you listen to your music quietly, then you are probably peaking at 1 or 2 watts. So it isnt really going to make a difference. Also, just because one speaker has more power output capacity than another does not mean it will sound better.

If you want more information on power ratings, let me know...

 

[Woody419]

As for the power issue, neither 400w or 40w is an accurate indication of the power output of the amplifier on those speakers. No computer speaker can have that kind of true continuous output.

I agree, the Logitech's are a little over ambitious in their power rating but they are still one of the best systems made. A higher power rating means the speakers will not sound strained during a short term loud shotgun blast, a kettle drum, lightning and thunder, where there is a sharp high sound followed by a loud low sound. The surrounds use a Tang Band 3" full range speaker, which you can buy for $11.32 each in sets of four. These speakers have a constant power handling of 15 watts and a max of 30 watts, so no way the Logitech amp is feeding them a constant (or even short term) 53 watts.

 

[TheWart]

another very pleased z-560 user with a Philips Acoustic Edge that makes the difference between unequal bass and a good solid sound via its "tone control" feature. woohoo!

 

[tronester1]

Originally posted by: Woody419

As for the power issue, neither 400w or 40w is an accurate indication of the power output of the amplifier on those speakers. No computer speaker can have that kind of true continuous output.

I agree, the Logitech's are a little over ambitious in their power rating but they are still one of the best systems made. A higher power rating means the speakers will not sound strained during a short term loud shotgun blast, a kettle drum, lightning and thunder, where there is a sharp high sound followed by a loud low sound. The surrounds use a Tang Band 3" full range speaker, which you can buy for $11.32 each in sets of four. These speakers have a constant power handling of 15 watts and a max of 30 watts, so no way the Logitech amp is feeding them a constant (or even short term) 53 watts.

I am sorry, but that is incorrect. The higher power rating does not necessarily mean it can play louder, or sound better. I have seen 20 dollar speakers with a 1000w power rating, would they be better than the z560's? Of course not. In realistic terms, the power output of the amplifier does not equate to loudness. There are people who use tube amplifiers with no more than 2w per channel power output for a total of 4w. Yet they have speaker systems that are 100dB 1w/1m efficient that will play louder than the Logitech's without distorting.

 

[zCypher]

Originally posted by: clicknext
The Klipsch system isn't something I can afford, and I can't find the 510D's anywhere locally.

I've heard from reviews that the Z560's are on par with the promedia4.1's, and I can get these babies for $240 Canadian, which would be able $170 US, I think. Right now I think these are my best option.

For the sound card, I thought the SBLive was better than the Santa Cruz... but in any case, I would like to avoid spending more money to get a new sound card.

Thanks

$240 Canadian is $152.71 USD at the current exchange rate of 0.6363. text

That said, $240 sounds like a good price. It's cheaper than what the local comp shops around here are offering (between 250 and 260).

However, if you can pick them up for $200 at costco like said above, I'd go for that. Actually ... maybe I'll have a look, now I'm curious.

Good luck, hope you're satisfied with whatever you decide to get.

 

[Woody419]

Originally posted by: tronester1I am sorry, but that is incorrect. The higher power rating does not necessarily mean it can play louder, or sound better. I have seen 20 dollar speakers with a 1000w power rating, would they be better than the z560's? Of course not. In realistic terms, the power output of the amplifier does not equate to loudness. There are people who use tube amplifiers with no more than 2w per channel power output for a total of 4w. Yet they have speaker systems that are 100dB 1w/1m efficient that will play louder than the Logitech's without distorting.

We are probably agreeing on the same thing, just phrasing it differently. I would not want to confuse anyone else though. A higher power amp usually can play louder. There are also amps, like NAD, that have a lower RMS but incorporate a power envelope technology that enables the amp to play louder for short bursts, which is usually all that is required for normal music listening. Higher power amps are needed for sustained loud music or low efficiency speakers, I believe the early Acoustic Research speakers were 16 ohms, that is a low efficiency. Klipsch speakers were always high efficiency, which enabled them to play loud with minimum amplifier power. The speakers designed with high efficiency, like the 100dB 1W/1m horn speakers will always play louder than the Logitech's, which have a 87dB 1W/1m rating. Tube amplification is another topic altogether. Tube amps have a very small amount of harmonic distortion that makes most music sound more natural.

The speaker power rating is just that. A rating of the speaker put on by the manufacturer. You would also have to know the distortion levels at the rated power, or the rating may just signify the point the cone separates from the voice coil on cheap speakers.

 

[tronester1]

Originally posted by: Woody419
We are probably agreeing on the same thing, just phrasing it differently. I would not want to confuse anyone else though. A higher power amp usually can play louder. There are also amps, like NAD, that have a lower RMS but incorporate a power envelope technology that enables the amp to play louder for short bursts, which is usually all that is required for normal music listening. Higher power amps are needed for sustained loud music or low efficiency speakers, I believe the early Acoustic Research speakers were 16 ohms, that is a low efficiency. Klipsch speakers were always high efficiency, which enabled them to play loud with minimum amplifier power. The speakers designed with high efficiency, like the 100dB 1W/1m horn speakers will always play louder than the Logitech's, which have a 87dB 1W/1m rating. Tube amplification is another topic altogether. Tube amps have a very small amount of harmonic distortion that makes most music sound more natural.

The speaker power rating is just that. A rating of the speaker put on by the manufacturer. You would also have to know the distortion levels at the rated power, or the rating may just signify the point the cone separates from the voice coil on cheap speakers.

Im still not quite sure I understand what you are saying. When comparing two amplifiers with the same speakers, the more powerfull amplifier will be louder. But when comparing with different speakers, you cannot make the same observation. As for the "power envelope" technology, I have NEVER heard of that? The only thing I could think of that you are refering to is an amplifier with a large bank of filter capacitors to allow more power output for a very brief peak. In that case, the amplifier's power supply would be the weakest link (which it usually is).

As for your relation to Acoustic Research being 16ohms and being inefficent, that is incorrect. The impedence of the speaker does not correlate directly to the efficiency. If that were the case, why would we not be using 1ohm loudspeakers instead of 8ohms? Efficiency refers to the amount of acoustical output in decibels with a given power input. For instance, a speaker that is 100dB at 1w/1m is twice as efficient as one that is 97dB at 1w/1m. It would require twice as much amplifier power to get the speaker with a sensitivity of 97dB to be as loud as the speaker that is 100dB at 1w/1m.

As for tube amplifiers, yes they can have more distortion than transistor based amplifiers, but they are usually so overbuilt that they are very low. As for the harmonic distortion sounding more natural, that is incorrect. If by natural, you mean flawless reproduction of the source material, then harmonic distortion is not good, as it is not intended to be played. The reason some like the distortion is that it sounds more pleasing to the ear, it being 1st order harmonic I believe.

The distortion levels have no correlation to how much power the speaker can handle. A speaker sees power as power, it does not matter if it is distorted or not. You could even feed a speaker a straight DC current. The distortion does not destroy the speaker, it is the increased power level that comes with it that does.

 

[Sniper82]

Well I can tell you right now the difference between the Z540's and the Z560's in loudness(mainly) and quality are night and day IMHO. I have a set of Z560's in my room with a cheap c-media card(got my Santa Cruz coming tomorrow or Thursday) and my sister in the next room has same sound card with a set of Z540's. One day I cranked the Z560's up and she said they almost overpowered hers. The sound quality is twice as nice and will only get better with a better sound card.

You get what you paid for by going with either set(Z540/Z560) paying double and going with the Z560's will give you twice(maybe 3 times) the loudness and twice the sound quality. Also wouldnt it be nice to have the extra power(Z560's) if you do decide to crank them up? Arent you ever home alone?

IMO:Get the Z560's if you have the money to spend at least with these you won't have to upgrade for a long time to come since they are already more than you need? If you buy the Z540's you will think the same about them as you do the FPS1000's in a year or so. They also have the best style just under Klipsch(best looking IMO).