Bethesda Is Tired Of Spending Money Supporting Software Pirates

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok
I find it really hard to believe that 50% of support calls are from people who pirated the game. One of the arguments against DRM is that it's pointless anyway since pirating is so easy and foolproof, obviously it's not if 50% of all the customer support lines are being tied up with pirates.

I wonder if he meant that most of their support calls were from people who legally bought the game, but ran into DRM related issues?

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: TheVrolok
I find it really hard to believe that 50% of support calls are from people who pirated the game. One of the arguments against DRM is that it's pointless anyway since pirating is so easy and foolproof, obviously it's not if 50% of all the customer support lines are being tied up with pirates.

I wonder if he meant that most of their support calls were from people who legally bought the game, but ran into DRM related issues?

That would make a lot more sense, I would think.

 

[Liet]

Originally posted by: Frodolives
Just for the record, Bethesda "stole" that IP from Interplay for $5.75 million.

I know. I was too tired to think of an appropriate word that means "appropriate with the intention of warping beyond recognition".

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Copying a game is a copyright violation, not theft. How much actual harm is debatable, and hard to put a figure on.

Getting tech support you didn't pay for is theft of services, and the costs can be clearly calculated.

Gotta disagree with you on this one...copying a game is theft, pure and simple. You've taken the time & efforts of numerous developers without paying for it. Same concept as going for a haircut (or any other service, really) and refusing to pay for it.

 

[SneakyStuff]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
What kind of jackass pirates a game and then calls in for support?

"Hi, I have this friend who umm... has this problem with the game..."

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Denithor

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Copying a game is a copyright violation, not theft. How much actual harm is debatable, and hard to put a figure on.

Getting tech support you didn't pay for is theft of services, and the costs can be clearly calculated.

Gotta disagree with you on this one...copying a game is theft, pure and simple. You've taken the time & efforts of numerous developers without paying for it. Same concept as going for a haircut (or any other service, really) and refusing to pay for it.

Its not always black or white...its different. If I stole an apple from you, you'd be out one apple. If I used a magic duplication device to copy your apple, you still have an apple...you just lost a potential sale. Of course, there's no sure way to know if I would have bought your apple at your price if the magic duplication machine didn't exist.

I wouldn't say its exactly stealing...its certainly unethical though and it certainly does some sort of financial harm to the owner of the apple/software.

 

[nerp]

Originally posted by: Imp

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
What kind of jackass pirates a game and then calls in for support?

The type that feels they're sticking it to the man when pirating.

Also clueless people who don't even realize it's either wrong or illegal. Not everyone is on the internet is reading about the DMCA and copyright issues.

 

[nerp]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: Denithor

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Copying a game is a copyright violation, not theft. How much actual harm is debatable, and hard to put a figure on.

Getting tech support you didn't pay for is theft of services, and the costs can be clearly calculated.

Gotta disagree with you on this one...copying a game is theft, pure and simple. You've taken the time & efforts of numerous developers without paying for it. Same concept as going for a haircut (or any other service, really) and refusing to pay for it.

Its not always black or white...its different. If I stole an apple from you, you'd be out one apple. If I used a magic duplication device to copy your apple, you still have an apple...you just lost a potential sale. Of course, there's no sure way to know if I would have bought your apple at your price if the magic duplication machine didn't exist.

I wouldn't say its exactly stealing...its certainly unethical though and it certainly does some sort of financial harm to the owner of the apple/software.

Good way to couch theft. It's still theft. Laws relate to intent, not just action and physical consequence.

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
What kind of jackass pirates a game and then calls in for support?

Considering that bitorrent makes it so easy that any idiot could pirate a game, I guess those idiots?

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: nerp

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: Denithor

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Copying a game is a copyright violation, not theft. How much actual harm is debatable, and hard to put a figure on.

Getting tech support you didn't pay for is theft of services, and the costs can be clearly calculated.

Gotta disagree with you on this one...copying a game is theft, pure and simple. You've taken the time & efforts of numerous developers without paying for it. Same concept as going for a haircut (or any other service, really) and refusing to pay for it.

Its not always black or white...its different. If I stole an apple from you, you'd be out one apple. If I used a magic duplication device to copy your apple, you still have an apple...you just lost a potential sale. Of course, there's no sure way to know if I would have bought your apple at your price if the magic duplication machine didn't exist.

I wouldn't say its exactly stealing...its certainly unethical though and it certainly does some sort of financial harm to the owner of the apple/software.

Good way to couch theft. It's still theft. Laws relate to intent, not just action and physical consequence.

Theft is the taking of property. That's why it's called copyright violation, and not theft. And intent doesn't protect you against copyright violation. If any software you use is in violation of copyright law, you are also guilty of copyright violations no matter what your intent. Everyone here has violated copyright laws whether they intended to or not.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Theft is the taking of property. That's why it's called copyright violation, and not theft. And intent doesn't protect you against copyright violation. If any software you use is in violation of copyright law, you are also guilty of copyright violations no matter what your intent. Everyone here has violated copyright laws whether they intended to or not.

Right, copyright violation and theft are two different things.

 

[Finalnight]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Theft is the taking of property. That's why it's called copyright violation, and not theft. And intent doesn't protect you against copyright violation. If any software you use is in violation of copyright law, you are also guilty of copyright violations no matter what your intent. Everyone here has violated copyright laws whether they intended to or not.

Right, copyright violation and theft are two different things.

But they are both crimes and both put you at risk for civil liability so the point is moot.

 

[Finalnight]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: Denithor

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Copying a game is a copyright violation, not theft. How much actual harm is debatable, and hard to put a figure on.

Getting tech support you didn't pay for is theft of services, and the costs can be clearly calculated.

Gotta disagree with you on this one...copying a game is theft, pure and simple. You've taken the time & efforts of numerous developers without paying for it. Same concept as going for a haircut (or any other service, really) and refusing to pay for it.

Its not always black or white...its different. If I stole an apple from you, you'd be out one apple. If I used a magic duplication device to copy your apple, you still have an apple...you just lost a potential sale. Of course, there's no sure way to know if I would have bought your apple at your price if the magic duplication machine didn't exist.

I wouldn't say its exactly stealing...its certainly unethical though and it certainly does some sort of financial harm to the owner of the apple/software.

Actually a more appropriate analogy would be that I created a special breed of apple that was exceptionally tasty and instead of paying me to eat one of those apples or licensing the seed to grow your own, you used your magical copying machine to get the apple and gain from my hard work without compensating me.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: Kev

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
What kind of jackass pirates a game and then calls in for support?

Considering that bitorrent makes it so easy that any idiot could pirate a game, I guess those idiots?

Thats true.
I remember when some buddies wanted me to get into Linux. I had to burn an ISO to do it and that scared the crap out of me. When they showed me how incredibly easy it was I finally understood why pirating is so popular.
All you need is a burner and the software it came with. Getting ISO's online is the easiest thing in the world. You can find linux ISO's on the World Wide Web and file-sharing programs can get you everything else.

Hell, I know how to make ISO's of DVD's with DVDShrink. I never considered myself to be savvy with such things, but if I can do it so easily then surely a modern 12-year-old with plenty of free time on his hands can figure it out.

 

[Cabages]

Ive always enjoyed Bethesda games. Only games I really buy straight out at launch.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Balt

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
What kind of jackass pirates a game and then calls in for support?

The kind of people that are too dumb to follow the instructions in an .NFO file.

Durr, what's an .NFO file? How do I open it?

:facepalm;

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Red Storm

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
What kind of jackass pirates a game and then calls in for support?

The kind that pirates games to begin with.

I think calling in for support takes it to a new level.

Haha yeah, it is ridiculously stupid to do that.. but apparently that's what people are doing.

An easy solution would be to ask for their product key before they get support. I don't understand why no one does that. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to verify since most cd keys are generated from a master encryption key. Just have the support guy verify it against that and if it checks out give them support, if not then they offer them the chance to get a license. I don't know.. something like that.

Then if the key is not legit, they tell the person calling in that they have to connect remotely to solve the problem.
Then the tech formats the hdd(s). :thumbsup:
:laugh:

 

[ultimahwhat]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Red Storm

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
What kind of jackass pirates a game and then calls in for support?

The kind that pirates games to begin with.

I think calling in for support takes it to a new level.

Haha yeah, it is ridiculously stupid to do that.. but apparently that's what people are doing.

An easy solution would be to ask for their product key before they get support. I don't understand why no one does that. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to verify since most cd keys are generated from a master encryption key. Just have the support guy verify it against that and if it checks out give them support, if not then they offer them the chance to get a license. I don't know.. something like that.

Then if the key is not legit, they tell the person calling in that they have to connect remotely to solve the problem.
Then the tech formats the hdd(s). :thumbsup:
:laugh:

As baller as that may be, it would just be asking for trouble for the company...

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: ultimahwhat

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Red Storm

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
What kind of jackass pirates a game and then calls in for support?

The kind that pirates games to begin with.

I think calling in for support takes it to a new level.

Haha yeah, it is ridiculously stupid to do that.. but apparently that's what people are doing.

An easy solution would be to ask for their product key before they get support. I don't understand why no one does that. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to verify since most cd keys are generated from a master encryption key. Just have the support guy verify it against that and if it checks out give them support, if not then they offer them the chance to get a license. I don't know.. something like that.

Then if the key is not legit, they tell the person calling in that they have to connect remotely to solve the problem.
Then the tech formats the hdd(s). :thumbsup:
:laugh:

As baller as that may be, it would just be asking for trouble for the company...

I know, they would get people with valid keys that are having issues. But it would be funny if it worked out.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: Finalnight

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: Denithor

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Copying a game is a copyright violation, not theft. How much actual harm is debatable, and hard to put a figure on.

Getting tech support you didn't pay for is theft of services, and the costs can be clearly calculated.

Gotta disagree with you on this one...copying a game is theft, pure and simple. You've taken the time & efforts of numerous developers without paying for it. Same concept as going for a haircut (or any other service, really) and refusing to pay for it.

Its not always black or white...its different. If I stole an apple from you, you'd be out one apple. If I used a magic duplication device to copy your apple, you still have an apple...you just lost a potential sale. Of course, there's no sure way to know if I would have bought your apple at your price if the magic duplication machine didn't exist.

I wouldn't say its exactly stealing...its certainly unethical though and it certainly does some sort of financial harm to the owner of the apple/software.

Actually a more appropriate analogy would be that I created a special breed of apple that was exceptionally tasty and instead of paying me to eat one of those apples or licensing the seed to grow your own, you used your magical copying machine to get the apple and gain from my hard work without compensating me.

Who said it was tasty? After all, you wouldn't let me taste it before purchasing it... It could be rebadged shit wrapped in an apple skin...

There is no recourse for the consumer that buys shit software to get their money back. I call that fraud. So it works both ways.

 

[dguy6789]

I agree 100% ArchAngel777.

 

[cessation]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Theft is the taking of property. That's why it's called copyright violation, and not theft. And intent doesn't protect you against copyright violation. If any software you use is in violation of copyright law, you are also guilty of copyright violations no matter what your intent. Everyone here has violated copyright laws whether they intended to or not.

Right, copyright violation and theft are two different things.

The funny thing is (or sad) most people pirating think it's no big deal because they didn't really steal it, but copyright violation (piracy) is worse than theft in most cases. If you just took a copy for yourself that you didn't share then it's only one small violation. But most people grab software off bittorrent or other sharing methods and share with hundreds or thousands of people. So if the pirate just went to the store and stole a copy of the software they probably would've done less harm.

I see why so many people do it though. How many of people can say they wouldn't take cash from a ATM that was just spitting it out? Most people would not admit they would take the cash but they would. It reminds me of movies where casino chips go flying for whatever reason and everyone dives in to grab some. Although that's just a movie, I could easily see that happening.

It's too bad companies can't make it so hard to pirate software that the average joe wouldn't bother. Everytime they try it ends up screwing the legit customers and doing nothing to pirates.

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

If they're already dumb enough to call, maybe they're also dumb enough to give up enough personal information to be prosecuted.

 

[Maximilian]

You guys wanted to know the kind of person who would call tech support with a pirated game? Well why dont you ask him! lol

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: cessation

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Theft is the taking of property. That's why it's called copyright violation, and not theft. And intent doesn't protect you against copyright violation. If any software you use is in violation of copyright law, you are also guilty of copyright violations no matter what your intent. Everyone here has violated copyright laws whether they intended to or not.

Right, copyright violation and theft are two different things.

The funny thing is (or sad) most people pirating think it's no big deal because they didn't really steal it, but copyright violation (piracy) is worse than theft in most cases. If you just took a copy for yourself that you didn't share then it's only one small violation. But most people grab software off bittorrent or other sharing methods and share with hundreds or thousands of people. So if the pirate just went to the store and stole a copy of the software they probably would've done less harm.

I see why so many people do it though. How many of people can say they wouldn't take cash from a ATM that was just spitting it out? Most people would not admit they would take the cash but they would. It reminds me of movies where casino chips go flying for whatever reason and everyone dives in to grab some. Although that's just a movie, I could easily see that happening.

It's too bad companies can't make it so hard to pirate software that the average joe wouldn't bother. Everytime they try it ends up screwing the legit customers and doing nothing to pirates.

I disagree. Pirating a game costs the developer nothing, assuming you weren't going to buy the game anyway. Similarly, uploading that pirated game to someone else also costs the developer nothing, assuming they weren't going to buy the game anyway. We can talk all we want about lost sales, but the actual number is impossible to know so there's no point.

The point is that the publisher doesn't actually lose anything. You didn't take $50 from a publisher when you downloaded title XX. Physically stealing a copy of the game DOES cost the publisher money, that's a physical good and costs money to produce. Calling the company for tech support DOES cost the publisher money, that's a service, those tech support guys have a salary.

Creating the game costs money, but making digital copies of that game does not cost additional funds. That is the distinction. There is a difference between opportunity cost and actual cost.