Best way to un-brainwash someone who just became "religious?"

[The Sauce]

One of my best friends from the past several years was having a bad time with money/relations and while vunerable fell into the hands of these fundamentalist Christian groups and is suddenly a holy-roller. I realize that for most people who have been brainwashed since birth about the "big-daddy-in-the-sky," undoing this is probably a lot more difficult, but she is fresh fodder. It is simply unthinkable that she could now have gone from such a wonderful, free-thinking, intelligent person to another shuffling, brainless, god-spewing automaton. She has gone from having money problem to ignoring them and giving her money to the church (thereby throwing away her life and feeding the cult), and from having relation problems to giving them up and replacing them with her new cult (religion). It is difficult for me to even talk to her anymore because every time she says "Jesus" my skin just crawls. I try explaining to her that Jesus, if such a person existed, has been dead a long time and is nothing more than dust by now but the brainwashing is just too strong. I want my friend back...sane again. What can be done? I've tried talking, reason, intervention...but the fantasy prevails.

 

[Isla]

That happened to me when I was 21. And a lot of my old friends felt the same way you did. More than a few confronted me about it, but it was no use. I was looking for a way to solve my problems, a magical way out of all the pain I had been in. I was looking for something you can't find outside of yourself and I thought I had found it in a group of people who called themselves Christians. Truth was they were more invested in being a clan/club, morally superior and 'right' than actually trying to follow Christ. Perhaps that is the case with your friend, and perhaps it isn't.

First of all, leave her belief in Jesus alone. He is not the problem and He's not going to cause any trouble. If anything, He will remind her to be humble and compassionate. What she has to realize eventually is that she has joined a club that is just like any other club, and pretty soon the politics, hypocrisy, etc will reveal itself... because any social institution has them. When she realizes that the group she has joined has feet of clay, she'll come out of it... hopefully. And hopefully, she will still believe in what Jesus taught (or tried to teach) and take comfort in realizing His presence in her life.


I hope this helps a little.

 

[Booster]

It's important to believe in God... But you explain her that it isn't important to go to church or, even more, to pay any money. God doesn't need any money, he has all the money in the world. If you go to church you go to people, if you pray to God you go to God, that is obvious. Any human organizations involving people or money will result in your going right to that - people or money, not to God himself, IMO.

 

[Triumph]

I agree that she shouldn't throw her money at this church and ignore her financial troubles.

But who the f&ck are you to make decisions for her about something as personal as religion? Your post is insulting to everyone on this board who is remotely religious. Listen, a$$hole, free thinking and religious are NOT mutually exclusive. If you believe that, then you haven't bothered to talk to enough religious people, and you are living with your own ignorance.

I can't speak to her situation any more because you've described it through a very distorted lense. As far as I know, it could just as easily be a local church youth group as it could be the Branch Davidians or Raelians (sp?). You seem to classify them all as one and the same.

 

[jlee]

Maybe some should ask the best way to un-brainwash those to vehemently hate religion.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I think it's sad that so many people are followers. You don't need the church to worship God. Most of the time, the different denominations will taint the message. Tell her to get out before the bible beaters suck her dry.

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: Triumph
I agree that she shouldn't throw her money at this church and ignore her financial troubles.

But who the f&ck are you to make decisions for her about something as personal as religion? Your post is insulting to everyone on this board who is remotely religious. Listen, a$$hole, free thinking and religious are NOT mutually exclusive. If you believe that, then you haven't bothered to talk to enough religious people, and you are living with your own ignorance.

I can't speak to her situation any more because you've described it through a very distorted lense. As far as I know, it could just as easily be a local church youth group as it could be the Branch Davidians or Raelians (sp?). You seem to classify them all as one and the same.

Why are you lashing out at him? What gives you the moral authority to tell him what to do and what not to do? If you are so religious, why are you insulting him? He's talking about someone he cares; you on the other hand couldn't care less about either of them, you just wanted to call someone a$$hole. If you want to see an "a$$hole", look in the mirror. Idiots like you give Christians a bad name.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: AnyMal

Originally posted by: Triumph
I agree that she shouldn't throw her money at this church and ignore her financial troubles.

But who the f&ck are you to make decisions for her about something as personal as religion? Your post is insulting to everyone on this board who is remotely religious. Listen, a$$hole, free thinking and religious are NOT mutually exclusive. If you believe that, then you haven't bothered to talk to enough religious people, and you are living with your own ignorance.

I can't speak to her situation any more because you've described it through a very distorted lense. As far as I know, it could just as easily be a local church youth group as it could be the Branch Davidians or Raelians (sp?). You seem to classify them all as one and the same.

Why are you lashing out at him? What gives you the moral authority to tell him what to do and what not to do? If you are so religious, why are you insulting him? He's talking about someone he cares; you on the other hand couldn't care less about either of them, you just wanted to call someone a$$hole. If you want to see an "a$$hole", look in the mirror. Idiots like you give Christians a bad name.

You sir, are messed up. I'm not really very religious, but I'm not blatantly *against* all forms of religion, as the original poster is. Your statement about "moral authority" is completely out of whack. I'm telling him that he has no right to dictate what someone else can believe, and suddenly I'M the one preaching to people? Gimme a freaking break.

 

[Ornery]

Hah! Triumph hit the right tone!

Since the Bible is such a crock of hooey, it shouldn't take much effort on your part to shoot a few holes in it, thus planting seeds of doubt in her mind. She'll start questioning and do her own study from there. Won't take long before she starts seeing contradictions in the doctrine of her church, the Bible, or both.

Take the trouble to find out what her church's tenets are. There will be other churches that have opposite beliefs. Go to their sites to get a head start on where you can find those holes and contradictions. I like the Blue Letter Bible for general Bible navigation. If she's joined Baptist or Jehovah's witness', you're in for a tussle. Both of those groups REALLY study and know the Bible. You'll have to pit one against the other to make any headway in finding contradictions. She'll really be confused for a while, but you said she was smart. She'll sort it out eventually...

 

[LordRaiden]

Why don't all of you give up this nonsence and arguing. That's all it is. Petty arguing. It's not being productive at all. Each person is responsible for his or her own actions. Therefor each person has to answer for their actions. You are not in any way responsible for the other person's actions. So if you don't like someone else and their actions that is not your problem. If it causes an issue, then they are the ones who will have to answer for those problems. Not you.

And while I'm at it Snatchface, you are a selfish, self centered individual only interested in what is best for you, not your friend. Have you even taken a good look at how much better your friends life might be now? Have you? I highly doubt it. Your post tells me immediately that you are only concerned with yourself at the expence of your friends and their well being. My suggestion, lay off your friend, let them go their own way. If it turns out that it's wrong, they'll be back and then you can say "I told you so." If not and they turn out for the better, of which I suspect they will, then that only stands to benefit you as well.

But your pathetic attempts at "dereligioning" your friend are beyond dispicable and repulsive. Stop being so selfish and try to be a friend, not an executioner.

 

[Tiger]

I agree that she shouldn't throw her money at this church and ignore her financial troubles.

But who the f&ck are you to make decisions for her about something as personal as religion? Your post is insulting to everyone on this board who is remotely religious. Listen, a$$hole, free thinking and religious are NOT mutually exclusive. If you believe that, then you haven't bothered to talk to enough religious people, and you are living with your own ignorance.

Ditto.
Unless your friend is doing something illegal or dangerous it's none of your damn business.
Grow up.

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: Snatchface
One of my best friends from the past several years was having a bad time with money/relations and while vunerable fell into the hands of these fundamentalist Christian groups and is suddenly a holy-roller. I realize that for most people who have been brainwashed since birth about the "big-daddy-in-the-sky," undoing this is probably a lot more difficult, but she is fresh fodder. It is simply unthinkable that she could now have gone from such a wonderful, free-thinking, intelligent person to another shuffling, brainless, god-spewing automaton. She has gone from having money problem to ignoring them and giving her money to the church (thereby throwing away her life and feeding the cult), and from having relation problems to giving them up and replacing them with her new cult (religion). It is difficult for me to even talk to her anymore because every time she says "Jesus" my skin just crawls. I try explaining to her that Jesus, if such a person existed, has been dead a long time and is nothing more than dust by now but the brainwashing is just too strong. I want my friend back...sane again. What can be done? I've tried talking, reason, intervention...but the fantasy prevails.

I don't understand why your point of view is 'correct' and perfect, while hers is not. Perhaps you are brainwashed youself and you don't even realize it.

 

[Geekbabe]

The problem with friends who suddenly get religion is that very often they decide that you need to get it too.Aside from all his fears that this woman is being taken advantage of (and what friend worthy of the title doesn't worry when this is happening to a friend?) the worst part of this whole thing is that she's now going to spend a lot of time and energy preaching her new found fundamentalist viewpoints to him. Sorry,but the only thing worse than a reformed smoker at a party is a newborn fundamentalist.


To the OP, all I can suggest is that you point out logically to her the points you've mentioned here.. and put strict limits on the amount of fundie BS you're willing to listen to,be prepared to end the friendship.

 

[LordRaiden]

I don't understand why your point of view is 'correct' and perfect, while hers is not. Perhaps you are brainwashed youself and you don't even realize it.

I agree with you totally. Snatchface, what makes you right and her wrong? Are you sure you're not the one who's wrong? Or is your Ego telling you that impossible for you to ever be wrong? Are you infallable? Cause if you are, you must be God, and I certainly don't think that fits your description one bit. SO guess what. It's entirely possible that you're wrong and your ego is so big you're not willing to admit it. Grow up and get real.

 

[Tiger]

the worst part of this whole thing is that she's now going to spend a lot of time and energy preaching her new found fundamentalist viewpoints to him

That's an assumption not based on fact.
Nowhere in the original post did he say she was preaching to him or trying to convert him.
Why is it so hard to admit that the OP is the one with the problem?

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: Tiger

the worst part of this whole thing is that she's now going to spend a lot of time and energy preaching her new found fundamentalist viewpoints to him

That's an assumption not based on fact.
Nowhere in the original post did he say she was preaching to him or trying to convert him.
Why is it so hard to admit that the OP is the one with the problem?

Real time life experience with this very problem has taught me first hand that the fundie preaching and conversion attempts aimed at "saving" this guy will come next.

Btw,I don't consider a friend who's alarmed at things I'm doing that seemingly don't make any sense and that might hurt me as being a person with problems. This woman is having heavy money troubles and is now giving all her cash to this group? big red flags for me there!

 

[Red Dawn]

Is she a Fund A Mental Case or a regular Christian? If she watches the 700 Club, Quotes Ayatollah Falwell or Iman Schuler then interdiction should be immediate as she is inflicted with Spirit Killing Hooey. If she is just going to Church and believing is the Son of God Stuff but isn't annoying at parties or on the street because that's all she talks about then don't worry about it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Tiger

the worst part of this whole thing is that she's now going to spend a lot of time and energy preaching her new found fundamentalist viewpoints to him

That's an assumption not based on fact.
Nowhere in the original post did he say she was preaching to him or trying to convert him.
Why is it so hard to admit that the OP is the one with the problem?

Real time life experience with this very problem has taught me first hand that the fundie preaching and conversion attempts aimed at "saving" this guy will come next.

Btw,I don't consider a friend who's alarmed at things I'm doing that seemingly don't make any sense and that might hurt me as being a person with problems. This woman is having heavy money troubles and is now giving all her cash to this group? big red flags for me there!

Heheh I was once messed up with Money problems now I'm messed up on Jesus

 

[DaiShan]

Why would you try to take her away from something she believes in. It is utterly deplorable for you to try to take something she holds dear. You are not a friend if you are so selfish that you would try to make her be more like you. Also, it is ridiculous to claim she is no longer able to be free-thinking simply because she is in a churc. While I agree there are church's that are radically fundamental, it sounds like you are just anti-religion and wish to prostletize your non-belief on others.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: DaiShan
Why would you try to take her away from something she believes in. It is utterly deplorable for you to try to take something she holds dear. You are not a friend if you are so selfish that you would try to make her be more like you. Also, it is ridiculous to claim she is no longer able to be free-thinking simply because she is in a churc. While I agree there are church's that are radically fundamental, it sounds like you are just anti-religion and wish to prostletize your non-belief on others.

Well if she is being recruited by verse spouting freaks then there is cause for concern. Nothing more pitiful than a person replacing one addiction for another. You have to believe that someone like MrPalco was at one time a normal person before some brain twisting Fundies got a hold of him.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Is she a Fund A Mental Case or a regular Christian? If she watches the 700 Club, Quotes Ayatollah Falwell or Iman Schuler then interdiction should be immediate as she is inflicted with Spirit Killing Hooey. If she is just going to Church and believing is the Son of God Stuff but isn't annoying at parties or on the street because that's all she talks about then don't worry about it.

See, that's the problem, Red. We'll never know because to the OP, they're all the same. So we'll never know what she's really like.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
I think it's sad that so many people are followers. You don't need the church to worship God. Most of the time, the different denominations will taint the message. Tell her to get out before the bible beaters suck her dry.

That is your personal opinion, there are some denominations that believe you do not need the church to worship God, there are some that believe you do. I am of the opinion that you do not NEED the church, but it is beneficial. The church doesn't collect money to pay the preacher 6 figures, they help the community, and help members when they are down. At the moment I am not attending church, but I believe it is a wonderful institution, if you find the right one for you. I don't like people who prostletize, but there are church's that help the willing hear the word.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: AnyMal

Originally posted by: Triumph
I agree that she shouldn't throw her money at this church and ignore her financial troubles.

But who the f&ck are you to make decisions for her about something as personal as religion? Your post is insulting to everyone on this board who is remotely religious. Listen, a$$hole, free thinking and religious are NOT mutually exclusive. If you believe that, then you haven't bothered to talk to enough religious people, and you are living with your own ignorance.

I can't speak to her situation any more because you've described it through a very distorted lense. As far as I know, it could just as easily be a local church youth group as it could be the Branch Davidians or Raelians (sp?). You seem to classify them all as one and the same.

Why are you lashing out at him? What gives you the moral authority to tell him what to do and what not to do? If you are so religious, why are you insulting him? He's talking about someone he cares; you on the other hand couldn't care less about either of them, you just wanted to call someone a$$hole. If you want to see an "a$$hole", look in the mirror. Idiots like you give Christians a bad name.

You sir, are messed up. I'm not really very religious, but I'm not blatantly *against* all forms of religion, as the original poster is. Your statement about "moral authority" is completely out of whack. I'm telling him that he has no right to dictate what someone else can believe, and suddenly I'M the one preaching to people? Gimme a freaking break.

Thanks you saved me the effort

 

[Geekbabe]

Any group that encourages you to help them when that means putting yourself fiscally at risk sounds suspect to me.Thanks but I'll keep my wallet closed and continue doing my worshipping on my pillow on Sunday mornings

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Is she a Fund A Mental Case or a regular Christian? If she watches the 700 Club, Quotes Ayatollah Falwell or Iman Schuler then interdiction should be immediate as she is inflicted with Spirit Killing Hooey. If she is just going to Church and believing is the Son of God Stuff but isn't annoying at parties or on the street because that's all she talks about then don't worry about it.

See, that's the problem, Red. We'll never know because to the OP, they're all the same. So we'll never know what she's really like.

Well in his original post he she was being brainwashed by "Fundies" so we have to assume that it's the worse case scenario. If she just started to believe in Christ and went about it like normal Christians do then there would be little cause for consern. You wouldn't really notice the difference as she still would be a free thinker.