Best value "Entry Level" gaming PC.

[cbn]

I decided to go for this Athlon 5350/MSI AM1l/Coolermaster Elite 110 combo deal for $89.99 After $10 rebate, $2.99 shipping--> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=36754856#post36754856

Hopefully the MSI BIOS has the features I need to make lower end AM1 SKUs out of the Athlon 5350. (I would imagine it should, but then I haven't used their lower end boards before)

 

[Abwx]

I decided to go for this Athlon 5350/MSI AM1l/Coolermaster Elite 110 combo deal for $89.99 After $10 rebate, $2.99 shipping--> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=36754856#post36754856

Hopefully the MSI BIOS has the features I need to make lower end AM1 SKUs out of the Athlon 5350. (I would imagine it should, but then I haven't used their lower end boards before)

Look like the bios is cool...
http://www.msi.com/support/mb/AM1I.html#down-manual

So after all the discussions about under the rock prices you got the higher grade AM1 APU.?.

Wise decision anyway, the MSI board is one of the most economical power wise provided you have a decent PSU, for instance Computerbase got 8W at iddle using a pico psu, that s all the problem with thoses low power plateforms, there s not much adequate PSUs or they are exageratly priced.

And if you can slap a SSD with it, even a 64GB.

 

[Madpacket]

Wow that's a heck of a deal. Nice looking case as well.

 

[cbn]

I decided to add some more hardware for testing:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2402196

(I also added the bundle in the second post so I could use a Tiger Direct $10 off $100 discount)

So now I got a A6-5400K coming, but still need a FM2 or FM2+ motherboard ( I would greatly prefer FM2+ for obvious reasons.)

P.S. The A8-5400K has the same basic hardware config as a A4-7300 (ie, one piledriver module with 1MB cache and 192 stream processor VLIW4 iGPU) The clocks are different though, but with the unlocked multiplier I *should* be able to do an approximation of a A4-7300.

 

[Abwx]

I decided to add some more hardware for testing:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2402196

(I also added the bundle in the second post so I could use a Tiger Direct $10 off $100 discount)

So now I got a A6-5400K coming, but still need a FM2 or FM2+ motherboard ( I would greatly prefer FM2+ for obvious reasons.)

P.S. The A8-5400K has the same basic hardware config as a A4-7300 (ie, one piledriver module with 1MB cache and 192 stream processor VLIW4 iGPU) The clocks are different though, but with the unlocked multiplier I *should* be able to do an approximation of a A4-7300.

The A4-7300 is a Steamroller with GCN graphic cores, not really comparable to the A6-5400K, the A8-5400k doesnt exist but there s a A8-5600k wich is the cheaper 4C, with 256 VLIW SPs its GPU is quite capable.

 

[cbn]

The A4-7300 is a Steamroller with GCN graphic cores not really comparable to the A6-5400K

That is what I thought also (that A4-7300 would be Kaveri based) , but AMD changed A4-7300 to Richland:

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-A4-Series A4-7300 - AD7300OKA23HL - AD7300OKHLBOX.html

Some actual product listings of A4-7300 also labeled as Richland:

http://www.amazon.com/AMD-A4-7300-Pr.../dp/B00MU00HGK

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819113378

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=9168699




P.S. Comparing specs from cpu world for the A6-5400K--> http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-A6-Series A6-5400K.html and A4-7300 --> http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-A4-Series A4-7300 - AD7300OKA23HL - AD7300OKHLBOX.html

A6-5400K:

Two piledriver cores with 1MB cache @ 3.6 GHz base/3.8 GHz turbo with 192 VLIW4 stream processors @ 760 MHz

vs.

A4-7300:

Two piledriver cores with 1MB cache @ 3.8 GHz base/4.0 GHz turbo with 192 VLIW4 stream processors @ 800 MHz

(Based on those specs, I would need to raise CPU frequency by 200 MHz and iGPU by 40 MHz on the A6-5400K to match the A4-7300. This assuming increasing the multiplier on the A6-5400K by two also increases the turbo by a like amount)

 

[Abwx]

That is what I thought also (that A4-7300 would be Kaveri based) , but AMD changed A4-7300 to Richland:



Two piledriver cores with 1MB cache @ 3.8 GHz base/4.0 GHz turbo with 192 VLIW4 stream processors @ 800 MHz

(Based on those specs, I would need to raise CPU frequency by 200 MHz and iGPU by 40 MHz on the A6-5400K to match the A4-7300. This assuming increasing the multiplier on the A6-5400K by two also increases the turbo by a like amount)

Seems that you are right, this APU was previously announced as a multiplicator locked A6-7400K, AMD list it as a Richland indeed.

http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/processors/desktop/a-series-apu#

There s also a richland A6-6420K 4.0/4.2 Turbo wich is not listed by AMD...

http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00174789.html

 

[cbn]

Athlon 5350/AM1 Mini-ITX: I would like to find a motherboard that will let me disable cores (which I hope all AM1s are capable of doing) so I can lower clocks and configure the Athlon 5350 as a "Athlon 5150" (by lowering multiplier to 16), a "Sempron 3850" (by lowering multiplier to 13 and lowering iGPU clocks from 600Mhz to 450MHz), a "Sempron 2650" (by disabling two cores and lowering multiplier to 14.5, lowering iGPU clocks from 600 MHz to 400 MHz, downclocking memory from 1600 MHz to 1333 MHz). For the "Sempron" configurations I will probably run the Half Life 2 Loast Coast Benchmark after making an attempt at running the Dirt 3 benchmark.

Regarding the above plan....

I received my Athlon 5350 and MSI AM1l yesterday.

I have yet to find a way to disable two cores or lower GPU clocks in the BIOS. (MSI Afterburner does not allow me to lower iGPU clocks either).

I can however, change the cpu multiplier to 16 which would replicate the performance of an Athlon 5150.

 

[Abwx]

Dont forget power comsumption if possible, besides it looks like AMD heard you since they released a lowish end Richland with apparently 128 SPs, just like the AM1 APUs.

AMD A4-6300 (3.7 GHz / 3.9 GHz Turbo Core 3.0
AMD A4-6320 (3.9 GHz / 4 GHz Turbo Core 3.0
GPU Type: Radeon HD 8370D
Shader cores: 128

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-A4-Series%20A4-6320.html

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-A4-Series%20A4-6320.html

From that link:
Low power P states [1] #1: 3400 MHz, 1.05V
#2: 3000 MHz, 0.875V
#3: 2600 MHz, 0.75V
#4: 2200 MHz, 0.525V
#5: 1800 MHz, 0.325V


Wow, 0.325v? That's the lowest voltage I think I've ever seen for an operating CPU.

 

[Madpacket]

I don't recall seeing any way to disable cores or change the multiplier in my AsRock board but I'll double check.

FYI small update:

I played Crysis 3 on the 5350 and it was essentially unplayable at the lowest settings. This is the first game I've tested that has been unplayable on the integrated APU graphics. On the G3258 this is just barely playable for reference.

I also played Titanfall on the 5350 and at 1024x768 it was completely playable which somewhat surprised me. There is obviously slow down in heavy fire fights but for casual gaming this APU can handle the game just fine. I didn't have fraps running but it felt around 20-30 FPS.

One thing I recommend doing when testing out these games is to not run fraps at first. Try to run the game without any frame counter and play with the graphics until you find it comfortable enough to play. Once you find the sweet spot enable fraps to see the speeds.

I do this as many games have different ways of handling mouse or gamepad input and these differences can mean the difference of one game with 20FPS being unplayable where another is just fine.

 

[cbn]

Looking ahead, I have to wonder how much AMD will price the AM1 Athlon x4 550 and Athlon x4 530?

Will the price be low enough that we can actually make some viable low cost comparisons?

 

[Shivansps]

unless the X4 550 is unlocked i dont see how it could be viable in any way.

There is a $76 Asrock Q1900-ITX with 4 satas that could probably do the exact same server roles and its passive.
The cheaper, 2-sata AM1 mb is $31 sooo lets say the same price? $45 for the 550, and i whould still pick up the slower J1900 unless its for using a dgpu.

 

[AtenRa]

unless the X4 550 is unlocked i dont see how it could be viable in any way.

There is a $76 Asrock Q1900-ITX with 4 satas that could probably do the exact same server roles and its passive.
The cheaper, 2-sata AM1 mb is $31 sooo lets say the same price? $45 for the 550, and i whould still pick up the slower J1900 unless its for using a dgpu.

I would only use those CPUs with entry level dGPUs like R7 240/250 for low budget entry level gaming machines(mantle could help). You can actually play a lot of games at 1080p with a setup like this at very low cost and low power usage.

 

[cbn]

I would only use those CPUs with entry level dGPUs like R7 240/250 for low budget entry level gaming machines(mantle could help). You can actually play a lot of games at 1080p with a setup like this at very low cost and low power usage.

For entry level budget gamer, I hope AMD prices x4 550 and 530 low enough considering Celeron G1820 is even faster than an Athlon 5350 according to passmark.

Celeron G8120: 2792 cpu marks http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+G1820+@+2.70GHz

Athlon 5350: 2614 cpu marks http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+5350+APU+with+Radeon+R3

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

For entry level budget gamer, I hope AMD prices x4 550 and 530 low enough considering Celeron G1820 is even faster than an Athlon 5350 according to passmark.

Celeron G8120: 2792 cpu marks http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+G1820+@+2.70GHz

Athlon 5350: 2614 cpu marks http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+5350+APU+with+Radeon+R3

That's really an Apples To Oranges comparison. The Athlon 5350 really is targeted against the Bay Trail Atoms. The Celeron G1820 really is more of an A4 or A6 competitor.

 

[Enigmoid]

That's really an Apples To Oranges comparison. The Athlon 5350 really is targeted against the Bay Trail Atoms. The Celeron G1820 really is more of an A4 or A6 competitor.

It can be 'positioned' against anything you want but it depends on the consumer's criteria whether its actually competition.

 

[Shivansps]

If they target desktop its the Celeron and Pentiums AMD indeed targeted the G1610, they stopped doing so once Haswell Celeron and Pentium where released.

No to mention there is the 1037U and eventually the 2955U.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

It can be 'positioned' against anything you want but it depends on the consumer's criteria whether its actually competition.

But it is stupid for a consumer to ignore the intended purpose for the respective chips. That's like cross shopping a Chevy Corvette to a Ford Explorer. They are completely different animals.

Socket AM1 is not equivalent to 1150/1155 and never was designed to be. If the consumer is looking at 1150/1155, then FM2+ is the equivalent platform.

 

[cbn]

Socket AM1 is not equivalent to 1150/1155 and never was designed to be. If the consumer is looking at 1150/1155, then FM2+ is the equivalent platform.

But what if the shopper wants Mini-ITX?

And then the shopper looks over at the FM2+ mini-itx motherboard prices and notices they are a good deal more expensive than H81 LGA 1150 mini-itx motherboards?

The next step is to see if AMD has anything more affordable in Mini-ITX and that would be AM1.

And thus the inevitable price comparison between Intel G1820/H81 Mini-ITX and AM1 Mini-ITX begins.

P.S. It looks like Newegg is offering a rebate on the ASRock FM2A78M-ITX+ FM2+ bringing it down to $69.99 AR with $5.39 shipping:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ame=Mini%20ITX

This rebate definitely helps, but the gap is still $10 higher than the ASRock H81M-ITX (which doesn't need a rebate):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ame=Mini%20ITX

 

[cbn]

The Athlon 5350 really is targeted against the Bay Trail Atoms.

Well Bay Trail-D which are 10 watt fanless and 25 watt AM1 requires a fan.

P.S. Looking at the socket area of my MSI AM1l there is quite a bit of empty area. It would have been nice if AMD could have designed a larger passive heatsink for the AM1 processor instead of the one they ship it with.

 

[AtenRa]

But what if the shopper wants Mini-ITX?

And then the shopper looks over at the FM2+ mini-itx motherboard prices and notices they are a good deal more expensive than H81 LGA 1150 mini-itx motherboards?

Comparing H81 to A78 is apples to oranges. A78 or A88X is way better with more features than even B85 and only comparable to H97/z97.

The next step is to see if AMD has anything more affordable in Mini-ITX and that would be AM1.

And thus the inevitable price comparison between Intel G1820/H81 Mini-ITX and AM1 Mini-ITX begins.

Cheapest H81 mini-itx board is 30%+ more expensive than cheapest AM1 Mini-itx, again not in the same price segment.

I dont say we cant compare Socket 1150 Celerons to AM1 APUs. But the truth is AMD only compare them against Intel Atom based Celerons/Pentiums.

 

[cbn]

Cheapest H81 mini-itx board is 30%+ more expensive than cheapest AM1 Mini-itx, again not in the same price segment.

That is true, but the the Athlon 5350 is more expensive than the G1820.

So when comparing total cost of processor and motherboard together, Athlon 5350/AM1 Mini-ITX and G1820/H81 Mini-ITX can be very close.

 

[Abwx]

But what if the shopper wants Mini-ITX?

And then the shopper looks over at the FM2+ mini-itx motherboard prices and notices they are a good deal more expensive than H81 LGA 1150 mini-itx motherboards?

The next step is to see if AMD has anything more affordable in Mini-ITX and that would be AM1.

And thus the inevitable price comparison between Intel G1820/H81 Mini-ITX and AM1 Mini-ITX begins.

P.S. It looks like Newegg is offering a rebate on the ASRock FM2A78M-ITX+ FM2+ bringing it down to $69.99 AR with $5.39 shipping:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ame=Mini%20ITX

This rebate definitely helps, but the gap is still $10 higher than the ASRock H81M-ITX (which doesn't need a rebate):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ame=Mini%20ITX

You should look at the specifications of the two cards you re comparing, theses are not exactly equivalent products, the 10$ delta is somewhat justified.

Other than that a H81 mITX is at least 65€ here, a Celeron can be had for 38-40€ while a MSI AM1 mITX is 27-28€, the rich featured Asrock AM1B ITX is 30€, the Athlon 5350 is about 50€, using the Asrock board you ll end with 80€, the Intel solution is 105€, i guess that it s about the same in the US, just that it s $.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

But what if the shopper wants Mini-ITX?

P.S. It looks like Newegg is offering a rebate on the ASRock FM2A78M-ITX+ FM2+ bringing it down to $69.99 AR with $5.39 shipping:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ame=Mini%20ITX

This rebate definitely helps, but the gap is still $10 higher than the ASRock H81M-ITX (which doesn't need a rebate):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ame=Mini%20ITX

It's irrelevant. AM1's performance and price is equivalent to the Baytrail Atoms. FM2+ is what competes directly with 1150. ITX boards are expensive for FM2+ because they are so rare. Most motherboard manufacturers focus on Micro ATX for FM2+ because that is the most common form factor for mainstream value shoppers.

I own an AM1 board with a Sempron 3850 (use it as a NAS), but wouldn't recommend the platform for any serious gaming. All the CPU's on AM1 hit a brick wall too quickly (just like Atoms). If you are doing serious gaming on ITX, Intel is the smartest move at the current moment (I built a G3258/Nvidia GTX 650 in this same Coolermaster 110 case).

If the person is simply going to be a light casual gamer, then an Athlon 5150/5350 is a good choice. But you can't hold it against the chip if you throw intense modern games at it and it chokes -- because that was never the mission for these CPU's.