Best "Rush" (Band) Saying? Contest!

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: gerwen
It's your opinion, and another persons opinion is just as valid.

I agree that there are too many variables to list one musician or another as the "best", for example, I think that Stevie Ray Vaughn is the best blues guitarist who has ever lived, but that's based on a specific set of criteria that doesn't carry over to a rock guitarist or a folk guitarist (Doc Watson being my favorite in that genre, though he's technically a Banjo player).

However, it is absolutely and completely false to say that all opinions are equally valid. This is a dangerous trend in modern thought that logically equates to saying that nothing is ever knowable. To say that everyone's opinion is just as valid is to say that a 4-year-old's opinion that "Barney" is the greatest musical talent ever is just as valid as a concert pianist's opinion that Beethovan is the greatest musical talent ever.

Granted, two equally-qualified concert pianists may disagree over whether Beethovan or Bach was the greatest talent ever, but there's a common educational background and capacity for understanding the music that my theoretical 4-year-old simply doesn't have. The opinions of the pianists are quite a bit more "valid" than the 4-year-old's opinions and it's simply not reasonable to argue otherwise.

I'm not saying that either side of the current debate is equal to a 4-year-old and I'm not taking either side in the debate. However, I simply could not allow the idea that "all opinions are valid" to go uncontested. It's an idea that is fundamentally damaging to the basic foundations of society.

ZV

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: gerwen
It's your opinion, and another persons opinion is just as valid.

I agree that there are too many variables to list one musician or another as the "best", for example, I think that Stevie Ray Vaughn is the best blues guitarist who has ever lived, but that's based on a specific set of criteria that doesn't carry over to a rock guitarist or a folk guitarist (Doc Watson being my favorite in that genre, though he's technically a Banjo player).

However, it is absolutely and completely false to say that all opinions are equally valid. This is a dangerous trend in modern thought that logically equates to saying that nothing is ever knowable. To say that everyone's opinion is just as valid is to say that a 4-year-old's opinion that "Barney" is the greatest musical talent ever is just as valid as a concert pianist's opinion that Beethovan is the greatest musical talent ever.

Granted, two equally-qualified concert pianists may disagree over whether Beethovan or Bach was the greatest talent ever, but there's a common educational background and capacity for understanding the music that my theoretical 4-year-old simply doesn't have. The opinions of the pianists are quite a bit more "valid" than the 4-year-old's opinions and it's simply not reasonable to argue otherwise.

I'm not saying that either side of the current debate is equal to a 4-year-old and I'm not taking either side in the debate. However, I simply could not allow the idea that "all opinions are valid" to go uncontested. It's an idea that is fundamentally damaging to the basic foundations of society.

ZV

I agree with you, but IMO it's really not that deep. The "It's your opinion, and another persons opinion is just as valid" is just another way to justify crapping on another person's opinion while keeping your own opinion out of the microscope. In other words, it's just a distraction for asshattery, which is exactly what gerwen went on to do right after he said that. Note how after he said that all opinions as just as valid, he then went on to say that his opinion is more valid than ours. Typical douchebag.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: Hammerhead
"I stopped listening to Rush back when I stopped playing Dungeons and Dragons"

How's that week been?

Bet your callouses on your dice hand are still there.

 

[gerwen]

Originally posted by: Vic

I agree with you, but IMO it's really not that deep. The "It's your opinion, and another persons opinion is just as valid" is just another way to justify crapping on another person's opinion while keeping your own opinion out of the microscope. In other words, it's just a distraction for asshattery, which is exactly what gerwen went on to do right after he said that. Note how after he said that all opinions as just as valid, he then went on to say that his opinion is more valid than ours. Typical douchebag.

Wtf are you talking about? The only opinion i gave was that stating your opinion as fact is arrogant. I was trying to point out the futility of claiming x is the best guitarist, when it can never truly be established as fact. You've basically attacked anyone who hasn't agreed with you. You call me an asshat and a douchebag, and i didn't even disagree with you. I just disagreed with how you presented yourself. If you think i'm copping out by not giving my opinion, here you are:

My favourite guitarists are: Joe Satriani, Mark Knopfler, and Dave Gilmour. I really dig on the emotion they manage to convey to me. Are they the best? Dunno. I don't even know if what they play is hard, I don't play myself. I'm certainly not going to try and get you to agree with me that they are the best in the world, but i will recommend you give em a listen if you're not a fan already. My opinion of Rush? They're ok. Not really my bag, but i recognize the talent.

Put that under the microscope if you wish.


I agree with you Zenmervolt, some opinions carry more weight than others. Here in ATOT though, we're just a bunch of joe's, and unless we happen to drop our credentials, our opinions are pretty much equal, until we're start claiming barney is the best.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: gerwen

Originally posted by: Vic

I agree with you, but IMO it's really not that deep. The "It's your opinion, and another persons opinion is just as valid" is just another way to justify crapping on another person's opinion while keeping your own opinion out of the microscope. In other words, it's just a distraction for asshattery, which is exactly what gerwen went on to do right after he said that. Note how after he said that all opinions as just as valid, he then went on to say that his opinion is more valid than ours. Typical douchebag.

Wtf are you talking about? The only opinion i gave was that stating your opinion as fact is arrogant. I was trying to point out the futility of claiming x is the best guitarist, when it can never truly be established as fact. You've basically attacked anyone who hasn't agreed with you. You call me an asshat and a douchebag, and i didn't even disagree with you. I just disagreed with how you presented yourself. If you think i'm copping out by not giving my opinion, here you are:

My favourite guitarists are: Joe Satriani, Mark Knopfler, and Dave Gilmour. I really dig on the emotion they manage to convey to me. Are they the best? Dunno. I don't even know if what they play is hard, I don't play myself. I'm certainly not going to try and get you to agree with me that they are the best in the world, but i will recommend you give em a listen if you're not a fan already. My opinion of Rush? They're ok. Not really my bag, but i recognize the talent.

Put that under the microscope if you wish.


I agree with you Zenmervolt, some opinions carry more weight than others. Here in ATOT though, we're just a bunch of joe's, and unless we happen to drop our credentials, our opinions are pretty much equal, until we're start claiming barney is the best.

And now the usual backpedaling, as though this was a verbal conversation...

Claiming to know who the best drummer in the world is, is hubris. It's your opinion, and another persons opinion is just as valid. Accept this fact and your blood pressure will thank you. "I think Rush suxxors" is way more valid than "Neal Peart is the best drummer in the world." The first is an opinion, and the second is a clueless misrepresentation of a fact that couldn't possibly ever be established or agreed upon. It's pointless, just like claiming pumpkin is the best pie.

Of course, it's nothing like that. Like Zen said, using your same logic, you could claim that Barney is the greatest musician on earth. As of course he isn't, it bcomes obvious that there are objective standards involved besides mere subjective opinion. Technical proficiency being one of those.

 

[davestar]

Originally posted by: Vic

Claiming to know who the best drummer in the world is, is hubris. It's your opinion, and another persons opinion is just as valid. Accept this fact and your blood pressure will thank you. "I think Rush suxxors" is way more valid than "Neal Peart is the best drummer in the world." The first is an opinion, and the second is a clueless misrepresentation of a fact that couldn't possibly ever be established or agreed upon. It's pointless, just like claiming pumpkin is the best pie.

Of course, it's nothing like that. Like Zen said, using your same logic, you could claim that Barney is the greatest musician on earth. As of course he isn't, it bcomes obvious that there are objective standards involved besides mere subjective opinion. Technical proficiency being one of those.

...and if technical proficiency is the be-all-end-all for you, then you also have to realize that there's plenty of musicians that wipe the floor with peart, lifeson, and lee.

 

[Vic]

Uhh... BTW, the greatest evidence of douchebaggery here is that I never claimed my opinion as fact. I said (and I do quote exactly), "Neal Peart -- arguably the world's greatest drummer."

You may now resume your threadcrapping via long-winded pseudologic about how all opinions are valid but some are more valid than others. :roll:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: Vic

Claiming to know who the best drummer in the world is, is hubris. It's your opinion, and another persons opinion is just as valid. Accept this fact and your blood pressure will thank you. "I think Rush suxxors" is way more valid than "Neal Peart is the best drummer in the world." The first is an opinion, and the second is a clueless misrepresentation of a fact that couldn't possibly ever be established or agreed upon. It's pointless, just like claiming pumpkin is the best pie.

Of course, it's nothing like that. Like Zen said, using your same logic, you could claim that Barney is the greatest musician on earth. As of course he isn't, it bcomes obvious that there are objective standards involved besides mere subjective opinion. Technical proficiency being one of those.

...and if technical proficiency is the be-all-end-all for you, then you also have to realize that there's plenty of musicians that wipe the floor with peart, lifeson, and lee.

In your opinion. However, we've already established that all opinions are valid but some opinions are more valid than others. Using that logic, I now relegate your opinion to a less valid than my opinion status.

 

[davestar]

Originally posted by: Vic
Uhh... BTW, the greatest evidence of douchebaggery here is that I never claimed my opinion as fact. I said (and I do quote exactly), "Neal Peart -- arguably the world's greatest drummer."

You may now resume your threadcrapping via long-winded pseudologic about how all opinions are valid but some are more valid than others. :roll:

Originally posted by: Vic
Yep, 'cause that mindless cRap you probably listen to now is so much better than the most talented rock musicians on earth.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: Vic
Uhh... BTW, the greatest evidence of douchebaggery here is that I never claimed my opinion as fact. I said (and I do quote exactly), "Neal Peart -- arguably the world's greatest drummer."

You may now resume your threadcrapping via long-winded pseudologic about how all opinions are valid but some are more valid than others. :roll:

Originally posted by: Vic
Yep, 'cause that mindless cRap you probably listen to now is so much better than the most talented rock musicians on earth.

Uh huh... how is that anymore than just a statement of opinion? Oh, that's right, it's not. You're still trolling and threadcrapping. It just never computes with douchebags like you does it? Let me explain what a prick you are. Suppose you started a thread for the appreciation of some musician(s) and were looking for anyone else who felt the same way, and some asshole(s) joined the thread just to troll negative comments and shut down all appreciative opinions? Now look in a mirror, that's you, Captain Asshat.

 

[davestar]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: Vic

Claiming to know who the best drummer in the world is, is hubris. It's your opinion, and another persons opinion is just as valid. Accept this fact and your blood pressure will thank you. "I think Rush suxxors" is way more valid than "Neal Peart is the best drummer in the world." The first is an opinion, and the second is a clueless misrepresentation of a fact that couldn't possibly ever be established or agreed upon. It's pointless, just like claiming pumpkin is the best pie.

Of course, it's nothing like that. Like Zen said, using your same logic, you could claim that Barney is the greatest musician on earth. As of course he isn't, it bcomes obvious that there are objective standards involved besides mere subjective opinion. Technical proficiency being one of those.

...and if technical proficiency is the be-all-end-all for you, then you also have to realize that there's plenty of musicians that wipe the floor with peart, lifeson, and lee.

In your opinion. However, we've already established that all opinions are valid but some opinions are more valid than others. Using that logic, I now relegate your opinion to a less valid than my opinion status.

argh, it's impossible to argue with you because you're completely inconsistent. you pretend that other's arguments are my own, you ignore previous statements of your own, etc, etc...

you just stated above that technical proficiency can be rated objectively. i'm not saying that is true or false, but it's a simple matter to show other musicians playing more complex material at a faster tempo than the dudes in rush. just look up the guys i mentioned earlier

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: Vic

Claiming to know who the best drummer in the world is, is hubris. It's your opinion, and another persons opinion is just as valid. Accept this fact and your blood pressure will thank you. "I think Rush suxxors" is way more valid than "Neal Peart is the best drummer in the world." The first is an opinion, and the second is a clueless misrepresentation of a fact that couldn't possibly ever be established or agreed upon. It's pointless, just like claiming pumpkin is the best pie.

Of course, it's nothing like that. Like Zen said, using your same logic, you could claim that Barney is the greatest musician on earth. As of course he isn't, it bcomes obvious that there are objective standards involved besides mere subjective opinion. Technical proficiency being one of those.

...and if technical proficiency is the be-all-end-all for you, then you also have to realize that there's plenty of musicians that wipe the floor with peart, lifeson, and lee.

In your opinion. However, we've already established that all opinions are valid but some opinions are more valid than others. Using that logic, I now relegate your opinion to a less valid than my opinion status.

argh, it's impossible to argue with you because you're completely inconsistent. you pretend that other's arguments are my own, you ignore previous statements of your own, etc, etc...

you just stated above that technical proficiency can be rated objectively. i'm not saying that is true or false, but it's a simple matter to show other musicians playing more complex material at a faster tempo than the dudes in rush. just look up the guys i mentioned earlier

There is considerably more to technical proficiency that just playing fast and complex. Malsteen might be able to fret-wank better than anyone else, but he's still fret-wanking.

I'm not being inconsistent BTW. My argument against your presence in this thread has been the same the whole time. If you don't like Rush, that's fine. I sincerely DO NOT CARE and I guarantee you that I absolutely positively never will care. As long as you quit trolling in this Rush appreciation thread.

edit: I swear, it's dickheads like you that ruin AT for everyone. The OP wanted some simple help to win a contest, and you ruined his thread. Of course, he's probably pissed at me too because I kept feeding your trolling, but I hope he realizes that you'd already killed his thread anyway. Nice going.

 

[davestar]

Originally posted by: Vic
Uh huh... how is that anymore than just a statement of opinion? Oh, that's right, it's not. You're still trolling and threadcrapping. It just never computes with douchebags like you does it? Let me explain what a prick you are. Suppose you started a thread for the appreciation of some musician(s) and were looking for anyone else who felt the same way, and some asshole(s) joined the thread just to troll negative comments and shut down all appreciative opinions? Now look in a mirror, that's you, Captain Asshat.

thanks for an entertaining end to the work week.

(1) this is a thread about "rush sayings", not worshiping rush.
(2) i never attacked you or anyone else in this thread, but it seems that you're blowing a gasket as if i insulted you and your entire family

Originally posted by: Vic
There is considerably more to technical proficiency that just playing fast and complex. Malsteen might be able to fret-wank better than anyone else, but he's still fret-wanking.

sorry dude, but that's basically the definition of technical profiency. it doesn't measure abstracts like "musicality", "emotion", or "feeling". it is a measure of technique.

 

[TheChort]

If I choose not to decide, I would still listen to RUSH!

 

[TheChort]

My RUSH is not for rent, to any god or government!

 

[TheChort]

This one might be a stretch, but I thought to make an allusion to something...

"DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE LYRICS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH"

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: Vic
Uh huh... how is that anymore than just a statement of opinion? Oh, that's right, it's not. You're still trolling and threadcrapping. It just never computes with douchebags like you does it? Let me explain what a prick you are. Suppose you started a thread for the appreciation of some musician(s) and were looking for anyone else who felt the same way, and some asshole(s) joined the thread just to troll negative comments and shut down all appreciative opinions? Now look in a mirror, that's you, Captain Asshat.

thanks for an entertaining end to the work week.

(1) this is a thread about "rush sayings", not worshiping rush.
(2) i never attacked you or anyone else in this thread, but it seems that you're blowing a gasket as if i insulted you and your entire family

Originally posted by: Vic
There is considerably more to technical proficiency that just playing fast and complex. Malsteen might be able to fret-wank better than anyone else, but he's still fret-wanking.

sorry dude, but that's basically the definition of technical profiency. it doesn't measure abstracts like "musicality", "emotion", or "feeling". it is a measure of technique.

So if I started a thread about (say, for example) visiting a Picasso exhibit, you'd troll on into that one too saying how you think Picasso sucks because you don't understand his use of abstraction and think it's all a cover for a lack of technical proficiency?

Got it. You're a dumbass.

BTW, I'm not blowing a gasket. You're just feebly looking for a way to leave this thread while saving face, and I'm here to prevent that from happening. I not only don't suffer fools (like yourself) lightly, I enjoy not suffering fools lightly.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: TheChort
My RUSH is not for rent, to any god or government!

That's a good one! :thumbsup:


Attention all Planets of the Solar Federation
RUSH has assumed control
RUSH has assumed control

 

[Rubycon]

If you choose not to decide you have still have made a choice. It's your freewill.

 

[davestar]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: Vic
Uh huh... how is that anymore than just a statement of opinion? Oh, that's right, it's not. You're still trolling and threadcrapping. It just never computes with douchebags like you does it? Let me explain what a prick you are. Suppose you started a thread for the appreciation of some musician(s) and were looking for anyone else who felt the same way, and some asshole(s) joined the thread just to troll negative comments and shut down all appreciative opinions? Now look in a mirror, that's you, Captain Asshat.

thanks for an entertaining end to the work week.

(1) this is a thread about "rush sayings", not worshiping rush.
(2) i never attacked you or anyone else in this thread, but it seems that you're blowing a gasket as if i insulted you and your entire family

Originally posted by: Vic
There is considerably more to technical proficiency that just playing fast and complex. Malsteen might be able to fret-wank better than anyone else, but he's still fret-wanking.

sorry dude, but that's basically the definition of technical profiency. it doesn't measure abstracts like "musicality", "emotion", or "feeling". it is a measure of technique.

So if I started a thread about (say, for example) visiting a Picasso exhibit, you'd troll on into that one too saying how you think Picasso sucks because you don't understand his use of abstraction and think it's all a cover for a lack of technical proficiency?

Got it. You're a dumbass.

BTW, I'm not blowing a gasket. You're just feebly looking for a way to leave this thread while saving face, and I'm here to prevent that from happening. I not only don't suffer fools (like yourself) lightly, I enjoy not suffering fools lightly.

gee, you got me. that's a totally valid comparison because, just like in your picasso comparison, i've been claiming that Rush is composed of talentless hacks... oh wait, i haven't. as i've said numerous times, the guys in rush are extremely technically proficient (there's that phrase again), but there are plenty of musicians MORE proficient than them.

i popped in the thread to see what the hell "rush sayings" meant. i laughed at one guy's post and gave him a thumbs up. then you busted in trying to denigrate my musical taste/intelligence. i've responded to your posts and defended my own. you've heaped on insults, skewed my words, and refused to respond to points which would actually create an honest debate.

 

[EXman]

My teen years below...

In the high school halls
In the shopping malls
Conform or be cast out
Subdivisions ---
In the basement bars
In the backs of cars
Be cool or be cast out
Any escape might help to smooth
The unattractive truth
But the suburbs have no charms to soothe
The restless dreams of youth

........................................................................

I get home at five oclock
And I take myself out a nice, cold beer
Always seem to be wondrin
Why theres nothin goin down here

It seems to me
I could live my life
A lot better than I think I am
I guess thats why they call me
They call me the workin man

They call me the workin man
I guess thats what I am

sometimes Working man seems like m theme song... :|:beer:

 

[Coldkilla]

97 replys and like, only 3 people actually read the main post!

RUSH Sayings Guys! Pleaaese. Flame about rush in a new thread!

 

[Coldkilla]

Well that killed the read now didn't it?

 

[TheChort]

From Futurama, as Fry is getting ready to attack the 'space invaders':

"It's Saturday night, I have no date, a two liter bottle of Shasta and my all-Rush mix tape... Let's rock! "

I know that doesn't technically count, but i had to throw it in

 

[Coldkilla]

hehe, funny though!

Keep them coming!