Originally posted by: werk
	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by: fivespeed5
creative nomad or rio nitrus are some choices.
		
		
	 
The Nitrus isn't really competition for HD-based players.  It's sort of an in-between Flash and HD player at 1.5 GB.  You're probably thinking of the Karma, it comes in 20 and 40GB.  If you guys haven't played with a Karma, you're missing out.  See if your local bestbuy has it and check it out. I played around with it at J&R.  It's smaller than the ipod (but thicker).  I personally like the form factor better, more like an MD.  Plus it has an ethernet dock and supports ogg vorbis.  

  I also like the interface better than other HD players, it's nearly identical to the RioRiot's.