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Best Handling Car for Under 30K

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JCH13 said:
I have quite an appreciation for every platform, even AWD.

FF is not a real limitation on the street. If you're routinely driving your car 9/10ths or 10/10ths on the street you're going to wreck and/or die very soon. An MS3 is a ton of fun on the street because of it's awesome suspension, great steering feel, and great brakes, with enough power to get you into trouble real quick.
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I don't care about 9/10. I oversteer on the street every day. Nobody says you have to drift like Tiff Needell.
 
JCH13 said:
I have quite an appreciation for every platform, even AWD.

FF is not a real limitation on the street. If you're routinely driving your car 9/10ths or 10/10ths on the street you're going to wreck and/or die very soon. An MS3 is a ton of fun on the street because of it's awesome suspension, great steering feel, and great brakes, with enough power to get you into trouble real quick.
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Even at 5/10ths FF is going to torque steer on acceleration and understeer in any tight corner...good luck needing to apply power while in one.
 
JCH13 said:
No point. Just more paper-racer numbers.



If you're exceeding your car's grip every day then you need better tires.
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It was you arguing about a MS3's slalom times. In any case, it's FWD, so in enthusiast feel it sucks.

The M3 is good and all, but they're not exactly the most reliable cars and parts/maintenance is a lot, especially if you buy used. I'd still recommend the S2000 if you want the best driving feel.
 
Wait huh i mean....therockmorton so by that logic understeer isnt exceeding grip either.....false sir. Oversteer is a direct result of loss of grip....
 
alkemyst said:
Even at 5/10ths FF is going to torque steer on acceleration and understeer in any tight corner...good luck needing to apply power while in one.
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I've never had any issues 'needing' to apply power in a tight turn. I just trail brake a little to get it to rotate, then ramp up power on exit and it takes off beautifully.

LOL_Wut_Axel said:
It was you arguing about a MS3's slalom times. In any case, it's FWD, so in enthusiast feel it sucks.

The M3 is good and all, but they're not exactly the most reliable cars and parts/maintenance is a lot, especially if you buy used. I'd still recommend the S2000 if you want the best driving feel.
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I guess you missed the part of my post where the Evo IX had a slower slalom time than the Evo IIX. Probably just variances in tests though.

I definitely agree that an S2K is an awesome driver's car, perhaps one of the best. But don't be so close-minded to think that a FF platform can't be a good, fun driver's car.
 
Black2na said:
Wait huh i mean....therockmorton so by that logic understeer isnt exceeding grip either.....false sir. Oversteer is a direct result of loss of grip....
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Yeap. Perhaps he meant that he intentionally oversteers, whereas people rarely intentionally understeer. Throttle-induced oversteer is one of the greatest ways to have fun in the universe. 🙂
 
Arkaign while i agree 2000% on throttle oversteer being all the fun ever. Jch turbo miata on a skid pad comes to mind. Im more baffled by him saying oversteer isnt loss of grip is WTF territory.
 
Black2na said:
Arkaign while i agree 2000% on throttle oversteer being all the fun ever. Jch turbo miata on a skid pad comes to mind. Im more baffled by him saying oversteer isnt loss of grip is WTF territory.
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Hahah yeah, I bet he just poorly stated what he was trying to convey, it's impossible not to understand that fact.
 
Not really sure why someone would claim oversteer doesn't happen due to a loss of grip....

The difference between oversteer and understeer is which set of tires are beyond their ability to grip. Under for the front, over for the back.
 
Ferzerp said:
Not really sure why someone would claim oversteer doesn't happen due to a loss of grip....

The difference between oversteer and understeer is which set of tires are beyond their ability to grip. Under for the front, over for the back.
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Yep. The major difference in my mind is that one can usefully employ throttle oversteer to some degree, but understeer is almost invariably useless.

On the flip side, understeer is far safer to encounter when you combine a novice driver with a powerful vehicle. I've seen a few people n00b out (including myself when I was 16-17) when they first feel an unexpected oversteer start to happen. A lot of learning to drive is to forget your untrained instincts, as you need to do unintuitive things to bring about the best results a lot of the time.
 
True. Understeer is inherently stable (too stable in a way, that's why you're understeering) whereas oversteer is inherently unstable.
 
PhoKingGuy said:
That's the dumbest thing I've heard. Have you tried driving one of those things on a daily basis?

You get searing back pain after like an hour in one.
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The dumbest thing? I doubt that, considering how much you hang out at ATF. :whiste: He wants the best handling car <$30k, and that's a used Elise. He didn't say he wanted a plush easy chair to rest his ass in too.
 
MagickMan said:
The dumbest thing? I doubt that, considering how much you hang out at ATF. :whiste: He wants the best handling car <$30k, and that's a used Elise. He didn't say he wanted a plush easy chair to rest his ass in too.
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He could get one of those too :awe:

But yeah, he has a valid point, Elises are far from smooth rides. Can they handle? They sure as hell can, but the tradeoff isn't that big compared to a BRAND NEW WRX STi.
 
There are many comparisons between the 944 and Elise.

Elise is designed for the track, the only ones driving them daily are morons.
 
RavenSEAL said:
See? You know I'm right when Alky isn't calling me a moron 😀
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Eh, I wouldn't have known, I've had that boob on ignore for months now. :biggrin:

The Elise suspension is entirely adjustable. One day set it up for responsive road handling that doesn't break your back, the next day set it up for the track. It's pretty flexible.
 
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