Question Best drop in for Ryzen 1600 on a B450 board?

[Shyatic]

Hi all,

My kids have Ryzen 1600 machines with a B450 board, and I’m curious if there is a good drop in upgrade for them that makes sense.

They mostly play games so that’s the use case, my oldest likes Call of Duty and that should give an idea of of what games they play.

Appreciate any thoughts!

 

[Iron Woode]

with a BIOS update you could upgrade to the 3000 series like a R5 3600 or an R7 3700 either of which would give a good performance improvement.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yes, if those are original Ryzen R5 1600 "AE" models, and they play games, then an upgrade is in order.

3300X 4C/8T, single CCX, so performs with the lowest latency of any Zen2-family CPU. $130
3600 6C/12T, 32MB "gamecache", IMHO best all-around gaming CPU currently on the market, for the money. $167
3600X 95W version of above, with single-core boost to 4.4Ghz, like $205
3600XT ?W, unreleased yet, but supposed to have single-core boost of 4.5Ghz, $250.

Or if they're into streaming or video-editing, get a 3900X for $409. 12C/24T. Pure overkill for games, right now, but has a lot of capability for "other stuff" (streaming and video-editing). If they're old enough to want to get into content-creation, consider these.

But for purely gaming, just try to get a 3600 CPU (or a pair, I guess), on the cheapest price that you can find, new, and drop them in.

Note that the stock cooler is pathetic, and you really should be on water.

 

[Shmee]

These are great options, though you could even wait for the holiday season for a possible Zen 3 (Ryzen 4000 series) upgrade.

 

[Iron Woode]

Yes, if those are original Ryzen R5 1600 "AE" models, and they play games, then an upgrade is in order.

3300X 4C/8T, single CCX, so performs with the lowest latency of any Zen2-family CPU. $130
3600 6C/12T, 32MB "gamecache", best all-around gaming CPU currently on the market. $167
3600X 95W version of above, with single-core boost to 4.4Ghz, like $205
3600XT ?W, unreleased yet, but supposed to have single-core boost of 4.5Ghz, $250.

Or if they're into streaming or video-editing, get a 3900X for $409. 12C/24T. Pure overkill for games, right now, but has a lot of capability for "other stuff" (streaming and video-editing). If they're old enough to want to get into content-creation, consider these.

But for purely gaming, just try to get a 3600 CPU (or a pair, I guess), on the cheapest price that you can find, new, and drop them in.

Note that the stock cooler is pathetic, and you really should be on water.

an R5 3600 only needs a decent aftermarket cooler like the Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power or Noctua NH-U14s or Arctic Cooling Freezer 34 ESports Duo. Those should work OK with the R7 3700 which is a great cpu if you want to go 8 cores/16 threads.

 

[Shyatic]

These are great options, though you could even wait for the holiday season for a possible Zen 3 (Ryzen 4000 series) upgrade.

Will that work on a B450 board though is the question?

 

[Yeroon]

I would check to see what bios version you need for your mb to support a 3000 series, but most b450 boards should be able to.
However, the 1600 is prob fine, might see more benefits from a gpu upgrade if they mostly game.

 

[Shmee]

Will that work on a B450 board though is the question?

According to AMD's latest announcement/backpedal, they will be extending support for Zen 3 to 400 series boards after all.

 

[DrMrLordX]

According to AMD's latest announcement/backpedal, they will be extending support for Zen 3 to 400 series boards after all.

I can't wait to see how badly that will turn out. Heh.

@Shyatic

Try a 3600XT? r5 4600 should be out this year, but exactly when, I don't know. Allegedly October will see the release of the Zen3 12c and 16c desktop parts, with 6c parts coming a few months later.

 

[Shyatic]

I think the logical thing would be to wait for Zen 3 and then get an older rev like a 3600 or something at a cheaper price for the upgrade.

They are managing right now on the 1600 but I can see some games it does struggle.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I think the logical thing would be to wait for Zen 3 and then get an older rev like a 3600 or something at a cheaper price for the upgrade.

They are managing right now on the 1600 but I can see some games it does struggle.

I disagree. If you're going to wait all that time for Zen3 to release, then best to buy Zen3 CPU of the "appropriate" core count at MSRP. Because two years later, if they stop making Zen3 by then, it may be hard to find, and prices on used chips or NoS may exceed original MSRP.

If you want to get Zen2, then buy now, and just get a 3600 (easiest, and probably best choice for gaming), or get a 3300X when they come into stock.

Also,what type / speed DDR4 do you have? You'll want at least DDR4-3600 RAM for a Ryzen R5 3600.

 

[Shyatic]

I disagree. If you're going to wait all that time for Zen3 to release, then best to buy Zen3 CPU of the "appropriate" core count at MSRP. Because two years later, if they stop making Zen3 by then, it may be hard to find, and prices on used chips or NoS may exceed original MSRP.

If you want to get Zen2, then buy now, and just get a 3600 (easiest, and probably best choice for gaming), or get a 3300X when they come into stock.

Also,what type / speed DDR4 do you have? You'll want at least DDR4-3600 RAM for a Ryzen R5 3600.

It's DDR4 2666.

 

[VirtualLarry]

It's DDR4 2666.

You'll need 3600 for Zen2, and who knows what might be needed for Zen3. Depends if they still have the IF multiplier change-over at DDR4-3800 (1900 FCLK). Hopefully, they won't, or the limit will be extended upwards massively. Like FCLK 2500-3000 or something. That would be amazing.

Edit: Heck, even with modern BIOSes, DDR4-3200 works OK with Ryzen 1600 "AE". (Maybe 3000, if 3200 "won't go".)

I was able to use some Team Group Vulcan Z DDR4-3200 16-18-18-36 1.35V with an Athlon 3000G @ 3800, 1.300V, with RAM @ XMP 3200. That's a Zen+ APU, with 12nm, so memory limits are a little higher than Zen / 14nm like your 1600 "AE" CPUs, but those could still hit 3200 in some cases, if the memory was profiled in the BIOS.

 

[CuriousMike]

That's becoming an expensive upgrade if you're suddenly insisting on new and faster ram to go with the new CPU.

 

[VirtualLarry]

That's becoming an expensive upgrade if you're suddenly insisting on new and faster ram to go with the new CPU.

That's true, but by the same token, he won't be getting half of the improvement that he could with a faster CPU, without faster RAM to boot as well, due to how current Ryzen CPU architectures and theIF / FCLK work in relation to DRAM CLK.

If you're willing to compromise on 3200, it's not horribly expensive.

Team Vulcan DDR4-3200 16GB (2x8GB) (CAS 16-18-18-38 1.35V) kit in grey $57.99 or camo $62.99 @ Newegg

Team T-FORCE VULCAN Z 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model TLZGD416G3200HC16CDC01 $52.99 https://www.newegg.com/team-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820331354?Item=N82E16820331354 Team T-FORCE VULCAN TUF Gaming...

forums.anandtech.com

And 3600 RAM is only a few bucks more a kit.

G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3600 (19-20-20-40, 1.35V) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C19D-16GVRB $66.99 @ Newegg

G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C19D-16GVRB...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[tamz_msc]

What GPU are you running? If it's something midrange, then you do not need a RAM upgrade along with the CPU upgrade. Get the Ryzen 5 3600 as others have suggested.

 

[tamz_msc]

And 3600 RAM is only a few bucks more a kit.

G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3600 (19-20-20-40, 1.35V) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C19D-16GVRB $66.99 @ Newegg

G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C19D-16GVRB...

forums.anandtech.com

That 3600 kit is trash-tier.

 

[NTMBK]

This is a lot of money to spend for a fairly minor upgrade. What does the rest of the system look like?

• What is the GPU? A graphics upgrade might help more in games.
• What monitor are you using? A 60FPS monitor might not see the benefit from a faster CPU.
• Are they running off an SSD? Running the game off a HDD means longer load times, more texture pop in, and all round a worse experience
• How do they connect to the internet? If they are on WiFi they will have a higher ping, which will mean they have a worse time in multiplayer games.

 

[Atari2600]

That's true, but by the same token, he won't be getting half of the improvement that he could with a faster CPU, without faster RAM to boot as well, due to how current Ryzen CPU architectures and theIF / FCLK work in relation to DRAM CLK.

Sorry, but that doesn't add up.

AMD Zen 2 Memory Performance Scaling with Ryzen 9 3900X

We take a close look at memory scaling on AMD's new Zen 2 Ryzen 3900X, testing both application and gaming performance at seven different memory speed and timing combinations ranging from 2400 MHz all the way up to 4000 MHz.

www.techpowerup.com

Would suggest its ~5% difference.

Meanwhile, going from a 1600 (6c @ 3.6 GHz) to a 3600 (6c @4.2 GHz) will net you at least a 30% improvement with all other things being equal.

Yes, you are leaving performance on the table - but the incremental improvement doesn't justify the expense.


Especially when the bigger question hasn't been answered yet - what GPU is in the system?

 

[thor23]

I think in this case the best value upgrade would be the 3300x - it has slightly higher multicore throughput than the 1600 and a massive boost in single core speed. 3300x basically matches and exceeds the 3600 in a lot of games thanks to 4 cores per ccx vs 3 cores per ccx for the 3600.
Also you don't "need" new ram but faster RAM will give you another performance boost, I would focus on upgrading the cpu first. And if you do upgrade RAM the best value is either cl16@3200mhz or cl18@3600mhz.

 

[blckgrffn]

I wouldn't walk back core/thread counts at this point. The 3600 is not that much more than the 3300x if you have access to Micorcenter, etc. and nets you 50% more cores/threads and doesn't walk back anything.

You should also be able to get good money for those 1600's right now, maybe $100+ on eBay or similar? A great time to jump up, IMO.

RAM speed is king with Zen 2, yeah, but as long as you are at least running the XMS profiles and getting the timings down it will be something that could be addressed later. If it's 16GB (2x 8GB) kits you could consolidate it all into one rig, buy new ram for one of them and figure out if it's worth it, for example.

 

[VirtualLarry]

3300x basically matches and exceeds the 3600

Not according to the charts in the GamersNexus "Revisiting the 1700X" video they did recently. I can't recall any of the charts, in which a 3300X was above a 3600. Sure, the 3300X was usually one slot above a 1600AF, for gaming benchmarks, but that's not saying much.

OP, go for a 3600 over a 3300X, they're in-stock (generally), and not much more money, and a lot more future-proof.

Oh, and the need for faster memory is in fact EVEN GREATER with the 3300X than the 3600, since you can OC it higher.

But the 3300X is only faster than the 3600, if you cherry-pick games to exclude those games that need/use more than 4C CPUs these days. And at least on that GN video, I don't think that I saw a 3300X (stock) ever being faster than a 3600 (stock).

 

[blckgrffn]

Not according to the charts in the GamersNexus "Revisiting the 1700X" video they did recently. I can't recall any of the charts, in which a 3300X was above a 3600. Sure, the 3300X was usually one slot above a 1600AF, for gaming benchmarks, but that's not saying much.

OP, go for a 3600 over a 3300X, they're in-stock (generally), and not much more money, and a lot more future-proof.

Oh, and the need for faster memory is in fact EVEN GREATER with the 3300X than the 3600, since you can OC it higher.

But the 3300X is only faster than the 3600, if you cherry-pick games to exclude those games that need/use more than 4C CPUs these days. And at least on that GN video, I don't think that I saw a 3300X (stock) ever being faster than a 3600 (stock).

Anandtech review had the 3600 ahead of the 3300x in all games when it came to 1% minimums too. I know they don't have the most dynamic suite in the world, but these days those min frames are so important given max frames can really sway average frame rates.

Man, hunting old cards I've reread some old video card reviews on the 'Net and they are so quaint! Running a million different games but with so little detail per title.

 

[kaizer777]

That 3600 kit is trash-tier.

What kit would you recommend?

 

[tamz_msc]

What kit would you recommend?

Crucial Gaming products | High-performance gaming memory and storage

From hard-core gamers to casual players, we have the gaming products you need for the gaming experience you crave. Crucial's high performance gaming memory and storage fuels legendary gaming experiences.

www.crucial.com