Best DirectX 12 Game

[Carfax83]

Why are you comparing apples and oranges? Why not compare the RX 580 to the 1070 just because of the inflated prices of the RX 400/500 series? RX 64 beats GTX 1080 in DX12, RX 56 beats the GTX 1070 in DX12, RX 580 beats the GTX 1060 6GB in DX12, etc... And it even wins handily, usually 10fps faster on the newest version of BF1 and latest drivers!

The burden of proof is on you. You keep saying that AMD wrecks NVidia in BF1 DX12, but I haven't seen any evidence that it does. This is the most recent review I could find (a little over a week old) , and the AMD cards are more or less even with their NVidia counterparts. And this is with stock clocked GPUs. When you consider overclocking, the NVidia GPUs will jump past the AMD cards due to higher overclocking headroom.

Anyway, I'm thinking about picking up the game, so I will have the opportunity to test it myself.

 

[Guru]

The burden of proof is on you. You keep saying that AMD wrecks NVidia in BF1 DX12, but I haven't seen any evidence that it does. This is the most recent review I could find (a little over a week old) , and the AMD cards are more or less even with their NVidia counterparts. And this is with stock clocked GPUs. When you consider overclocking, the NVidia GPUs will jump past the AMD cards due to higher overclocking headroom.

Anyway, I'm thinking about picking up the game, so I will have the opportunity to test it myself.

I'm talking about Battlefield 1, not Star Wars Battlefront 1 or 2. Either way both games do favor AMD in DX12, though BF1 is buttery smooth in DX12 and has been for a long time now, think two months after release all performance issues were fixed, including DX12 and that was over a year ago now!

 

[Muhammed]

though BF1 is buttery smooth in DX12 and has been for a long time now, think two months after release all performance issues were fixed, including DX12 and that was over a year ago now!

My links are not old man, here this is GameGPU testing In the Name Of The King DLC, released Sep 2017, all AMD GPUs take a hit under DX12 compared to DX11 (especially min fps). So do NV cards of course:

http://gamegpu.com/action-/-fps-/-tps/battlefield-1-vo-imya-tsarya-test-gpu-cpu

 

[Muhammed]

The Forza games do however, so I'm sure Fermi will not run those games.

I scoured the net looking for signs of anyone running Forza on a Fermi card, couldn't find something after 5 minutes of search. So I think you are onto something.

So I guess Gears of War 4 doesn't use RBT2 then

It has a Enable Tiled Resources option in the menu though.

 

[NTMBK]

The best game is pretty obviously Total Warhammer. It's bloody fantastic.

 

[Krteq]

It has a Enable Tiled Resources option in the menu though.

You are mixing apples wit oranges, resource binding and tiled resources are two completely different things.

@Carfax83: Even if the game uses RBT2 it doesn't mean it's using FL12_x. I'm telling you for last time that Forza games are still using FL11_x.

 

[Guru]

My links are not old man, here this is GameGPU testing In the Name Of The King DLC, released Sep 2017, all AMD GPUs take a hit under DX12 compared to DX11 (especially min fps). So do NV cards of course:

http://gamegpu.com/action-/-fps-/-tps/battlefield-1-vo-imya-tsarya-test-gpu-cpu

Nvidia cards to take a hit under DX12, but AMD cards gain like 10+fps advantage under DX12. No stuttering on either DX11 or DX12 on either AMD or Nvidia cards.

So yeah, AMD gain advantage on DX12 BF1, Nvidia lose performance on DX12. But DX12 is not broken on the game, there is no stuttering, no nothing.

Though if you are Nvidia user you want to play BF1 on DX11 for better performance, and play on DX12 if you are AMD user.

 

[wilds]

I have a feeling the best DirectX 12 game ever made will be when DirectX 13 starts to roll out...

 

[Spjut]

Nvidia cards to take a hit under DX12, but AMD cards gain like 10+fps advantage under DX12. No stuttering on either DX11 or DX12 on either AMD or Nvidia cards.

So yeah, AMD gain advantage on DX12 BF1, Nvidia lose performance on DX12. But DX12 is not broken on the game, there is no stuttering, no nothing.

Though if you are Nvidia user you want to play BF1 on DX11 for better performance, and play on DX12 if you are AMD user.

Seems like the CPU performance also benefits noticeably on both AMD and Nvidia.

I'm positively surprised, I thought DX12 still was worse based on the available benchmarks for Battlefront 2

 

[Grooveriding]

DX12 has been a massive disappointment. I don't remember an API that has had such a low adoption rate among publishers this far past its release. We are still seeing overwhelmingly DX11 games, some DX11 games with a DX12 pathway added and a smattering of native DX12 games that have done nothing to raise the bar over the best looking games out right now, all of which run on DX11. I still haven't seen any games that in their totality rival a game like The Division, BF1, SWBF2 or AC:O. Those are all DX11 games.

Who cares about the DX12 features and a few games that are using them if they are not raising themselves to the level of existing DX11 titles.

 

[Carfax83]

It has a Enable Tiled Resources option in the menu though.

Tiled resources are optional features for FL11_x hardware.

 

[Carfax83]

@Carfax83: Even if the game uses RBT2 it doesn't mean it's using FL12_x. I'm telling you for last time that Forza games are still using FL11_x.

I'm just going by what Microsoft themselves say. On their hardware feature level page, RBT2 is exclusive to FL12_0 and better hardware.

FL11_x hardware only has RBT1 support. This is corroborated by the fact that Fermi will not run Forza Horizon 3 or Forza 7 due to lacking resource binding tier 2.

 

[Carfax83]

DX12 has been a massive disappointment. I don't remember an API that has had such a low adoption rate among publishers this far past its release. We are still seeing overwhelmingly DX11 games, some DX11 games with a DX12 pathway added and a smattering of native DX12 games that have done nothing to raise the bar over the best looking games out right now, all of which run on DX11. I still haven't seen any games that in their totality rival a game like The Division, BF1, SWBF2 or AC:O. Those are all DX11 games.

DX12 was never going to be widely adopted, as the level of expertise required to implement it properly is too high. Also, to take full advantage of DX12 (and Vulkan), the engines themselves will have to be rewritten. That's going to take a lot of time. Then, add the fact that DX12 is exclusive to Windows 10 and you have slow developer uptake.

 

[Muhammed]

Nvidia cards to take a hit under DX12, but AMD cards gain like 10+fps advantage under DX12. No stuttering on either DX11 or DX12 on either AMD or Nvidia cards.

So yeah, AMD gain advantage on DX12 BF1, Nvidia lose performance on DX12. But DX12 is not broken on the game, there is no stuttering, no nothing.

Are we seeing the same graphs?

For both 1440p and 1080p:
Vega 64: lowers minimums under DX12 = stuttering
FuryX: lower avg fps under DX12

That and people who tried the game still confirm stuttering and pauses have not been fixed in DX12, for both BF1 and SWBF2.

 

[Krteq]

I'm just going by what Microsoft themselves say. On their hardware feature level page, RBT2 is exclusive to FL12_0 and better hardware.

FL11_x hardware only has RBT1 support. This is corroborated by the fact that Fermi will not run Forza Horizon 3 or Forza 7 due to lacking resource binding tier 2.

You are right, RBT2 is mandatory for FL12_x, BUT you need to have other mandatory requirements fulfilled to claim FL12_x support and be exposed by driver. If engine uses RBT2 it doesn't automatically means that engine utilizes FL12_x.

Do you understand me now?

 

[Guru]

Are we seeing the same graphs?

For both 1440p and 1080p:
Vega 64: lowers minimums under DX12 = stuttering
FuryX: lower avg fps under DX12

That and people who tried the game still confirm stuttering and pauses have not been fixed in DX12, for both BF1 and SWBF2.

Again from all the newer performance gathering on Battlefield 1, DX12 is much better on AMD cards, easily 10fps gain across most their graphics cards, from the RX47-/570 to Vega 64.

Nvidia does lose some performance under DX12 though. Ultimately AMD's DX12 is faster than Nvidia's DX11 in Battlefield 1.

At the release of the game, people were playing this huge online matches with tons of people are experiencing stuttering due to latency, due to overloaded servers on EA's side, which got mistaken as some sort of hardware stutters.

DX12 might have not been properly implemented initially, I think they even said that it was a beta test essentially, later on I think within 2 months they fixed it.

 

[Guru]

Native DX12 support for me means no support for DX11 or tacked on DX11 support. Most engines and thus most games are build with DX11 pipelines in mind. Its not even so much what features you are using of DX12, but how you are making the pipeline that is way more important.

 

[Carfax83]

You are right, RBT2 is mandatory for FL12_x, BUT you need to have other mandatory requirements fulfilled to claim FL12_x support and be exposed by driver. If engine uses RBT2 it doesn't automatically means that engine utilizes FL12_x.

Do you understand me now?

Yes I understand you, but I don't see how you could say for sure that it's not FL12_x. You don't know the inner workings of the engine, and neither do I for that matter. I'm just saying that the game already supports a mandatory feature associated with FL12_x, a feature that FL11_x hardware like Fermi do not possess. So it's not that great a leap of logic to make the connection that the Forza engine is a native DX12 engine.

 

[Krteq]

So it's not that great a leap of logic to make the connection that the Forza engine is a native DX12 engine.

Well, it's a flawed logic... Microsoft's own logic seems to be diferent - Forza Horizon 3: System Requirements

Is that clear now?

 

[Carfax83]

Right, and yet Fermi cannot run the game at all despite being hardware feature level 11 compliant, due to lacking resource binding tier 2. So to me that means Microsoft made a mistake when they came up with the system requirements.

 

[Krteq]

What? No

As I told you before, resource binding tier is not a single requirement for FL12_x, you have to pass all mandatory requirements.

Fermi has it's own limitations, and it wasn't even DX12 compatible until recent time. Kepler is still FL11_1, because it still can't achieve all FL12_x mandatory requirements... and yet you can play Forza games on both Fermi and Kepler based cards.

So, yes. Forza games are NOT native DX12 games. In fact, there is no native DX12 game released yet.

 

[Carfax83]

What? No

As I told you before, resource binding tier is not a single requirement for FL12_x, you have to pass all mandatory requirements.

Fermi has it's own limitations, and it wasn't even DX12 compatible until recent time. Kepler is still FL11_1, because it still can't achieve all FL12_x mandatory requirements.

So, yes. Forza games are NOT native DX12 games. In fact, there is no native DX12 game released yet.

OK I went to this Wikipedia page, and it explained it all to me. Yeah I agree that you're correct after looking at these charts. According to the charts, Kepler only has one FL12_0 mandatory feature, and that's RBT2.

As for Fermi, it has none of the FL12_0 mandatory features.

 

[Krteq]

Great, nice to see that you understand that now

Regarding Resource Binding Tiers and recent NV drivers with RBT changes, we still will need @Alessio1989 or @zlatan to bring some light to this, because as I said before, you can't get more SRVs and UAVs HW resources from nothing.

 

[BFG10K]

DX12 has been a massive disappointment. I don't remember an API that has had such a low adoption rate among publishers this far past its release. We are still seeing overwhelmingly DX11 games, some DX11 games with a DX12 pathway added and a smattering of native DX12 games that have done nothing to raise the bar over the best looking games out right now, all of which run on DX11. I still haven't seen any games that in their totality rival a game like The Division, BF1, SWBF2 or AC:O. Those are all DX11 games.

It's really similar to the failure that was DX10 + Vista, actually.

DX12/Vulkan is an equal failure. In virtually every multi-API game there's at least one instance where DX11/OpenGL runs better on at least one vendor. Also if you watch later patches in many of the games (e.g. Tomb Raider Rise) you'll see the low level APIs fail in ways no longer covered in mainstream reviews (e.g. crashing black screen, stuttering, etc).

 

[TheELF]

DX12/Vulkan is an equal failure.

It's not a failure,the miscommunication/over-expectation of what it would do makes it seem like it but if you analyze it dx12/vulkan are superb at what they where intended for and that is to reduce CPU needs by a fair amount and thus also raising performance in CPUs that choke on the amount of work they have to do for games.
Check out dx12/vulkan performance on sub 4core CPUs and you will get what I'm saying.