Bernie Madoff 'falls out of bed' in prison

[Jaskalas]

He is an evil man and I do NOT want to see the prison system fail to protect his physical safety.

I think people who cheer if someone is raped in prison are a bad or worse than the criminals.

We can agree on the required dignity of human life.

 

[Zebo]

I disagree with you on this. Whiile the government has the right to punish with imprisonment that is already a very harsh punishment - I'd like to see what you have to say about 'adult day care' after a week of having youru freedom taken away and you being given little more than walls to look at almost 24 hours a day, much less a year - there is no moral right to put a person you have in your custody into harms's way of violence by other prisoners.

It might surprise you to know that I am much more sympathetic to your other point that there's a lot of room to rethink prisons. I've long considered corporal (not capital) punishment in lieu of prison.

If we ARE going to have prisons, I'd lke to see them made much more rehabilitative.

People vastly underestimate the suffering of being imprisoned IMO. And I'm strongly anti-crime.

I was a pretty bad kid growing up - think lord of the flies around our house. Yeah I went into juvenile hall and it was not that bad. In fact some like it.

 

[WHAMPOM]

I can't condemn this man. I can think of few people who could possibly hate themselves enough to cheat so many decent people on such a scale, and his own fellow Jews. Such a giant piece of shit has to hate himself far far more than he could be hated by the rest of the world. He created and defined his own hell. He can never feel anything but self loathing. Oh Father in heaven let the bitterness in our hearts burn away. Lead us back to the love of out inner being, I pray.

Oh moony,"sigh". Madoff loved himself most, before anything even money(well, maybe people trusting him while getting screwed) and the only thing he loathes was getting caught.

 

[brandonbull]

So murderers are to be forgiven because society is guilty of war?

I think the point is that we ignore people that cheat US taxpayers on a scale that makes Madoff look like a hustler taking pocket change.

 

[Pliablemoose]

I'm gonna make a prediction here, Bernie is gonna get the crap beat out of him a couple of times, and then he'll be killed.

He screwed over a lot of people, and ruined their retirements, some of these folks still have resources, and they're sending a message to other money managers.

There's also a pretty high likelihood he'll kill himself...

I for one am not going to shed a tear over Bernie's troubles, he willfully fucked over people for $ and knew damn well that his house of cards would collapse eventually.

 

[Jaskalas]

After reading the disgusting support here for abuse of a prisoner, it’s a wonder people still let themselves be taken alive. Perhaps they never got the chance to see your morals or lack thereof.

Least the internet lets your intentions be head loud and clear.

 

[Pliablemoose]

I don't think anyone deserves to be beaten or killed, however, I'm enough of a realist to understand the motivation & very real possibility that Bernie was assaulted on someone's orders and that his life is likely at risk as a direct result of his behaviors.

The dude ripped of charities, and destroyed many people's decades of hard work & savings, for him to expect physical safety is a bit much...

And when the hell did it become day care for a person to go to prison?

The guy's got cable TV and someplace warm to sleep, there are millions with a worse lot than Bernie in this country.

 

[Robor]

Bullshit. If there was real justice in our society, he would have been executed for his crimes.

:thumbsup:

 

[Fear No Evil]

I wonder many of those people here claiming to care for his safety would feel differently if they were 70 years old, worked their entire lives to save up for a nice retirement, then one day found out they had nothing and their entire working adult life gained them almost nothing. People on AT going apeshit over a retailer not honoring a mistaken 'hot deal'.

 

[Craig234]

I wonder many of those people here claiming to care for his safety would feel differently if they were 70 years old, worked their entire lives to save up for a nice retirement, then one day found out they had nothing and their entire working adult life gained them almost nothing. People on AT going apeshit over a retailer not honoring a mistaken 'hot deal'.

Those things are why he is in prison. They don't justify his physical safety being violated in prison.

You're mostly projecting when you suspect hypocrisy. Remember when Robert Kennedy was assassinated and Sirhan Sirhan's sentencing came up, and anti-capital punishment Ted Kennedy faced that?

Righties asked the same thing you do - he'll be a hypocrite now and ask for capital punishment. Execpt no, Kennedy asked for capital punishment NOT to be the sentence.

 

[ericlp]

He is serving a life sentence at the federal prison in Butner after admitting to cheating investors out of billions of dollars.

Sounds like our own government.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Those things are why he is in prison. They don't justify his physical safety being violated in prison.

You're mostly projecting when you suspect hypocrisy. Remember when Robert Kennedy was assassinated and Sirhan Sirhan's sentencing came up, and anti-capital punishment Ted Kennedy faced that?

Righties asked the same thing you do - he'll be a hypocrite now and ask for capital punishment. Execpt no, Kennedy asked for capital punishment NOT to be the sentence.

Sometimes prison isn't enough.

Not sure what your point is exactly about Kennedy.. he's also the one who felt like a publically run health care plan was the answer while using the cadillac one he got through congress to help extend his life. He's also guilty of murder himself so I guess maybe he felt a little sympathy for a fellow murderer?

Those points aside, I don't see how Kennedy not being a hypocrite on one issue (Which was probably a POLITICAL decision more than anything) does anything to invalidate my point. Most people on AT go ape shit nuts when Best Buy won't honor a price mistake.. Imagine how they would act if they were scammed out of their life savings? My guess is they would want Bernie to face some physical harm.

I haven't even given my opinion on this issue, I'm just saying I think its a lot easier to call for mercy when its not your life being ruined.

 

[werepossum]

Capital and corporal punishments are also more humane than prisons. This notion that it is kinder to lock someone in a hole for years is something Craig believes for the sake of his own conscience, and not for the well-being of those people who have to suffer it. Given the choice, I would prefer a whipping than to be locked up.

Yeah, me too. Especially if I get to pick the chick that administers it.

Given the choice between death and life in prison, though, I think I'd choose life if it were a moderate to minimum security facility. If it were a maximum security hell hole, probably death. And I have to admit that while I would not arrange things to allow Madoff to be brutalized, I'll shed no tears over it either. The guy spent his life living like a king while absolutely destroying lives.

 

[nobodyknows]

I wonder many of those people here claiming to care for his safety would feel differently if they were 70 years old, worked their entire lives to save up for a nice retirement, then one day found out they had nothing and their entire working adult life gained them almost nothing. People on AT going apeshit over a retailer not honoring a mistaken 'hot deal'.

In my opinion we clearly should provide Mr. Madoff with a higher bed.

 

[Robor]

I wonder many of those people here claiming to care for his safety would feel differently if they were 70 years old, worked their entire lives to save up for a nice retirement, then one day found out they had nothing and their entire working adult life gained them almost nothing. People on AT going apeshit over a retailer not honoring a mistaken 'hot deal'.

I agree with FNE? /feels the ground...

 

[ShawnD1]

Violent prison are a good thing Craig, as it acts as a deterrent to keep people out of them. Otherwise, it's adult day care. Personally I don;t believe in prisons at all - every crime could be meet with capital or corporal punishment. Why victimize society twice? Once when they commit crime, second as ongoing maintenance by tax payers to house them.

We could do that, but then the country would go bankrupt because the cost of executing someone is much higher than keeping them in jail for life. If you're talking about killing people without the expensive trial and appeals process, that would be called Auschwitz-Birkenau. It took the Germans about 5 years to kill 1 million people at that camp but I'm sure we could get that down to 2 years with proper funding.

 

[Robor]

We could do that, but then the country would go bankrupt because the cost of executing someone is much higher than keeping them in jail for life. If you're talking about killing people without the expensive trial and appeals process, that would be called Auschwitz-Birkenau. It took the Germans about 5 years to kill 1 million people at that camp but I'm sure we could get that down to 2 years with proper funding.

Isn't there a reasonable compromise without Godwin's law?

 

[waggy]

The jail should have done a better job of protecting him. I do agree that stuff like that shouldn't happen to them.

BUT i am not upset that it did and hope he falls out of bed more..

 

[HumblePie]

We could do that, but then the country would go bankrupt because the cost of executing someone is much higher than keeping them in jail for life. If you're talking about killing people without the expensive trial and appeals process, that would be called Auschwitz-Birkenau. It took the Germans about 5 years to kill 1 million people at that camp but I'm sure we could get that down to 2 years with proper funding.

Uhh... cost more? wtf? The actual act of enforcing capital punishment is relatively cost-less. Now the time, deliberation, and court costs to get to the decision is what costs money. And that's only because of the long and drawn out appeals process we currently have.

I am all for capital punishment. I do know that people have been in prison for decades that are now being found innocent after modern forensic science, ie DNA sampling, has proven them innocent. However, back in the day, more circumstantial evidence was all that was needed to prove guilt. With modern forensic science, and better accounting and culpability for investigators, that has dropped to near zero if not zero incidents. If memory serves me, in order to be convicted of a capital murder charge, there must be at the very minimum now DNA evidence.

The fact that modern science can prove 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt the guilt or innocence of a murderer means that we no longer need a long drawn out appeals processes so that the murderer can find some loophole to escape the full punishment of the law. If changed and instituted, then even this part of the process can bring down costs.

The last part of the costs of killing inmates being so high for most states, is once a capital sentence is handed out, most inmates sit on death row for YEARS, if not decades before being given their punishment. Not so long in Texas at least though. Anyhow, the moment a capital punishment is given, there really is no reason to wait. Just do it.

Finally, the last reason the cost to kill someone is high, is because of all the liberal hippies that complain it isn't "humane" enough. So we spend too much money on making sure the person dies as painlessly as possible. Bleh. A sharp axe, and a quick stroke are about as painless as it really is going to get. Sure it's a bit more gruesome, but to the person dying, it makes little difference. They are dead before the brain can register pain. The only reason we no longer do this is not for the person being killed, but for those hippies that complain that it isn't "humane." That and possibly the cleanup afterward.

 

[Jaskalas]

I wonder many of those people here claiming to care for his safety would feel differently if they were 70 years old, worked their entire lives to save up for a nice retirement, then one day found out they had nothing and their entire working adult life gained them almost nothing. People on AT going apeshit over a retailer not honoring a mistaken 'hot deal'.

Entire working adult life gained them almost nothing? I'd say two things.

First that they were foolish with their money, if not stupidly criminal. Second that they are entirely self absorbed and materialistic. Neither justifies the abuse and torture of an individual beyond their legally sentenced punishment.

That you suggest this has excuses is abhorrent to you being human.

 

[werepossum]

Entire working adult life gained them almost nothing? I'd say two things.

First that they were foolish with their money, if not stupidly criminal. Second that they are entirely self absorbed and materialistic. Neither justifies the abuse and torture of an individual beyond their legally sentenced punishment.

That you suggest this has excuses is abhorrent to you being human.

His point, though - that people who defend Madoff go ape shit over very much smaller and less important things that touch them personally - is certainly valid. He didn't actually say it was justified, just that if those of us here had been defrauded of their life savings, we would almost certainly not care, and probably celebrate, his being beaten up. Again, I'm not saying it was justified (my position is actually pretty much like Waggy's) but I certainly agree with Fear No Evil's observation. Had I been defrauded I'd be cheering on anyone who beat him up even though in the abstract I agree that prisoners deserve to be protected.

 

[MotF Bane]

We could do that, but then the country would go bankrupt because the cost of executing someone is much higher than keeping them in jail for life. If you're talking about killing people without the expensive trial and appeals process, that would be called Auschwitz-Birkenau. It took the Germans about 5 years to kill 1 million people at that camp but I'm sure we could get that down to 2 years with proper funding.

Godwin claims victory yet again.

 

[BarneyFife]

I don't feel sorry for him nor do I feel sorry for the victims who were just as greedy as Madoff.

 

[MotF Bane]

I don't feel sorry for him nor do I feel sorry for the victims who were just as greedy as Madoff.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Entire working adult life gained them almost nothing? I'd say two things.

First that they were foolish with their money, if not stupidly criminal. Second that they are entirely self absorbed and materialistic. Neither justifies the abuse and torture of an individual beyond their legally sentenced punishment.

That you suggest this has excuses is abhorrent to you being human.

Blame the victims.. gotcha. Are you actually suggesting the victims should be charged with crimes as well? "stupidly criminal"?